Don't Want To Go

[ScaredStupid]

Hi all, I'm new to this site but hopefully I can get a better understanding of the safety aspect of flying "Qantas".

I am booked to go to Qld and stay at a fantastic resort, all expenses paid by my husbands company.

The problem is, I hate flying, scare beyond belief, especially NOW with the Qantas dramas, I was feeling a little better about it, as I did a fear of flying course but now I feel like I've taken 20 steps backwards and I really don't want to go. In fact I think I will have to back out unless they change the airline to Virgin, especially after the report on TV tonight about the secret files and cover ups :shock:

I know there are no guarantees in life but I'm terrified.

 

[SeaWolf]

I'd say that there's no rational reason to worry about flying on Qantas, but then fear of flying isn't about rationality in the first place.

I'd say, do whatever you think is going to make you feel most comfortable, but make sure you confront this. As time goes on and you get more experience you'll start feeling more comfortable about it all.

 

[straitman]

ScaredStupid,

As I sit here in the Perth QP awaiting for my 2335 flight to Melbourne my only concern is that it may live up to recent expectations of Perth flights and be late. (though it does look like we'll be on time)

Yes Qantas has had some issues lately but nothing that merits real concern. The reality is that in Oz each year we kill thousands of people on the roads and people hardly bat an eyelid but an airline has a few overpublicised problems, no accidents and it strikes the fear of god into some people.

Sadly, to me the perspective is lost. By world standards Virgin and Qantas are both extremely safe airlines.

This probably does not help you but may give you something to think about.

Good luck with your trip. You will be OK :!:

 

[Driver]

It's so difficult to overcome our fears, no matter how irrational. However, do try to think of flying as being wrapped in a nice safe cocoon. I have flown all through Cape York in little planes - even in a little one engine plane on a search and rescue - swooping through the river system around Aurukun - I had to grit my teeth to get on that plane but it was fun once I got up there, through the Bungle Bungles in a helicopter :!:, over the Grand Canyon in a little plane, back and forth across oceans. Everyone on this forum has so many experiences to tell about - read some of the trip reports - they are so interesting! Until I get onboard I have butterflies just like everone else, but I just let go in the knowledge that the flight crew will get me there safely - and they do! And they will continue to! It is so much safer that getting behind the wheel of a car - there will be no giant rigs screaming up behind you, tooting their horns to make YOU move over.

I've been planning a trip for 12 months. On Saturday the 13th I board the plane - I just will let go of everything the minute I step onboard. In the last six months everything imaginable has been thrown in my path - a sister with breast cancer, a mother with a broken arm and dislocated shoulder (oh, the stress :evil, now - a sinus infection which the doctor says she can cure so I can fly! And it's working so well, I'm wide awake and typing this at 3am in the morning! I am just so determined to see those autumn leaves in Vermont, the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, San Antonio where I was born but have never seen, the cobbled streets of Boston - oh, if you never never go you never never see!

Go with your husband, whilst you might be stressed for an hour or two, the holiday will be a memory worth having!

Cheers! And let us know how your holday was! :arrow::arrow::arrow:

 

[vt01]

Hello ScaredStupid and welcome to AFF.
There are so many safety systems that surround commercial aircraft that keep them so safe.
It starts with the aircraft themselves. Because they cannot merely pull over to the 'side of the sky' to fix any problems that all the vital systems have backups. The airframe itself is extremely tough - it has to be to withstand constant stress it is under. When you some of the accidents where the airframe has been damaged and yet the pilots have still managed to land the aircraft you realise just how strong they are.
This an incredible amount of testing that occurs during aircraft development. For example, during the development of the A380, the latest super jumbo, they destroyed a multi-milliion dollar engine to ensure that if it lost a fan blade during operation, that it couldn't leave the engine housing and damage part of the aircraft.
Then there are the pilots who have many hours worth of training behind them. And there are at least 2 of them too!
Then you have the safety systems surrounding aircraft as they fly in the form of air traffic control and the organisation of they air over Australia. For example, aircraft flying in opposite directions are assigned altitudes separated by at least 1000 feet. All large aircraft inculding the one you are flying in are equipped with TCAS. A system where aircraft talk to each other and if they are on a collision course, issues instructions to the pilots of both aircraft to avoid a collision.
In the case of an emergency, the aircraft is given priority to land and airspace they need cleared of other aircraft.
Even with all these 'systems', they are still many incidents reported to the safety organisation CASA. CASA investigates these and issues findings and recommendations. In the case of mjor problems with aircraft, Air Worthiness Directives are issued to all operators of that particular aircraft type. Even problems that occur in aircraft overseas are reported and information given to Qantas and Virgin. Boeing and Airbus also issue maintenance requirements to all operators if they find a problem.
Just about all aircraft accidents are the results of a chain of events and a breakdown of many systems which is why they compare it to slices of swiss cheese. There are many slices of swiss cheese which represent the many safety systems surrounding a flight. This includes the aircraft, maintenance, the pilots, Air Traffic Control, weather, etc. In order for an accident to occur, all the holes in each slice of swiss cheese must line up. What is says is that any system has holes in it, but with many systems the holes rarely line up which is why flying is still one of the safest forms of transport.
The fact is that there are lots of 'incidents' with aircraft we never hear about because they have not resulted in a crash. The fact that there are many and that they have not resulted in crashes is testiment to how safe flying really is.
Safety is constantly under review. Just know that you are safe flying with either QF or Virgin. Considering the amount of time Qantas has been flying, they are extremely safe.
There are many noises you will hear during your flight.. All of which are normal.
If you have a bumpy flight, also don't be concerned.. As I said earlier, aircraft are extremly tough.. They do not break that easily. And the pilots will fly around any bad storms (they have weather radar).
I hope this helps a little. Use what you learned in the fear of flying course and think of it as getting on a bus.

 

[simongr]

I am more concerned about the bar fridges in the lounge breaking down than the aircraft being in any danger of crashing.

In fact I am more concerned about being a terrorist bombing on Cityrail and then being in an ambulance accident on the way to the hospital and having to be treated in the NSW public health system than I am about flight risk.

 

[Alanslegal]

Just take the plunge and go for it ScaredStupid

Focus on the end result - think of the fantastic resort, warm weather, a coughtail in one hand whilst lounging in a cabana poolside. Those are all positive thoughts that you should try and focus on.

For me, I sometimes get a bit nervous about flying - as I really don't like turbulence - but I focus hard on the end result ... my destination & how I can make the most of my time there, I think of any last minute planing on what to do at my destination and that takes my focus away from my flying.

And if worst comes to worst I guess you can focus on statistics - and repeat in your mind how flying is much much safer than doing many day to day activities like driving or walking!

Ps. Excuse my pun.

 

[medhead]

Hi and welcome
I have to agree with everyone else here that qantas is very safe to fly with despite all these recent stories. Remember that no one was hurt and the planes all landed safely. That's the benefit of qantas they have good experienced staff who know how to keep things safe.

As for the stuff on TV last night, I think I saw some of that. I'd only remind you that the whole point of those 6:30 shows is to make people watch by scaring them or beating up the story in some way. To make it a drama and suck people into watching. (I get sucked in quite a bit.) That's how they make money.

The thing is it's just a beat up and very little of it is 100% true.

If this is anything like the FOI things I deal with in my work, then you have to be very careful in accepting any of it. I recently had one with headlines and news reports of how unsafe something was. The truth is the person getting the FOI completely didn't understand or listen to the information that he was given and went off on a a complete tangent. Needless to say 3 days later when he was proven wrong publicly, he's back asking for the information that he should have asked for in the first place.

 

[ScaredStupid]

Thank you to everyone who answered. I really appreciate it! I have always had an intense fear of flying and it was only last year that I did the fear of flying course and managed to see some of the world for the very first time. Reading through the responses has really helped me feel somewhat better about going. I hope I can do it. It won't be easy

It really does help having positive input... Since my fear of flying course, I travelled to London, Paris, Rome, Florence and Venice on a 5 week holiday ... and returned home Jan 08. I haven't flown since January and slowly the fear has crept back and all the reports and crashes that have happened this year has really played on my mind and for some reason just about every landing I've had has been awful, one plane seemed to fishtail down the runway and then when the 747 landed back in Perth, boy did it hit with a bang, everyone on board gasped. Apparently the undercarriage had to be inspected after that landing. Do you think we could have been in any danger from that? or does that happen a lot. (Landing is my worse part of flying - that and take off)

vt01 - thank you for the all the helpful info, it helps to hear all the safety aspects and even hearing people talk about "not" being scared, like simongr worrying about the bar fridge I wish I had that frame of mind ... or straitman's and Medhead's - that the media hypes things up ... Do you think there is any truth in Qantas and Casa being secretive and covering up major maintenance problems though? The guys they interviewed seemed to have pretty good credentials.

I know planes are supposed to be safe but why did the Scanair plane crash (I think that was the name), why wasn't the problem picked up.

If I had been on the Qantas plane that had the explosion, I would have had a fit, the problem is I suppose there are never any guarantees that something isn't going to go wrong - I just wish there were I don't know how I'd be able to handle an emergency or problem whilst flying, even if the plane managed to land safely, it would be my worst nightmare.

Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes (and if I go) Lets hope there are no more dramas between now and October

 

[nlagalle]

It really does help having positive input... Since my fear of flying course, I travelled to London, Paris, Rome, Florence and Venice on a 5 week holiday ... and returned home Jan 08. I haven't flown since January and slowly the fear has crept back and all the reports and crashes that have happened this year has really played on my mind and for some reason just about every landing I've had has been awful, one plane seemed to fishtail down the runway and then when the 747 landed back in Perth, boy did it hit with a bang, everyone on board gasped. Apparently the undercarriage had to be inspected after that landing. Do you think we could have been in any danger from that? or does that happen a lot. (Landing is my worse part of flying - that and take off)

vt01 - thank you for the all the helpful info, it helps to hear all the safety aspects and even hearing people talk about "not" being scared, like simongr worrying about the bar fridge I wish I had that frame of mind ... or straitman's and Medhead's - that the media hypes things up ... Do you think there is any truth in Qantas and Casa being secretive and covering up major maintenance problems though? The guys they interviewed seemed to have pretty good credentials.

I know planes are supposed to be safe but why did the Scanair plane crash (I think that was the name), why wasn't the problem picked up.

If I had been on the Qantas plane that had the explosion, I would have had a fit, the problem is I suppose there are never any guarantees that something isn't going to go wrong - I just wish there were I don't know how I'd be able to handle an emergency or problem whilst flying, even if the plane managed to land safely, it would be my worst nightmare.

Hi there ScaredStupid,

Like the others said, you are flying on a safe airline. I fly with QF all the time and have no intention of changing. Yes the media has been reporting every incident to do with Qantas. The thing is, these happen every week, and are part of flying. It's just they don't rate on the news most of the time.

In regards to the hard landing, without being there I don't know the circumstances behind it, but remember they are designed to take heavy landings. Engineers checking it afterwards shows you Qantas care about their aircraft.

I can't comment on the other crash as i have no info on it, but remember Australian regulations are a lot tougher than in other parts of the world. Our standards are higher. And I don't believe for a second CASA would be covering up Maintenance issues. No way. And I also believe the engineers wouldn't allow it to happen either as they are liable too if something happens. Every LAME I have ever met takes pride in their work, as unlike a mechanic, hundreds of people place their lives into the work they do.

P.S. I flew from Beijing back to Melbourne last week on Qantas.. Flight was a breeze. I can't wait to go flying again..

 

[straitman]

Just about every landing I've had has been awful, one plane seemed to fishtail down the runway and then when the 747 landed back in Perth, boy did it hit with a bang, everyone on board gasped. Apparently the undercarriage had to be inspected after that landing. Do you think we could have been in any danger from that? or does that happen a lot. (Landing is my worse part of flying - that and take off)

ScaredStupid,

I'll just comment upon a couple of things as I believe that most has been covered and there is little point in waffling on about somethings again.

Not sure what you mean by fishtailing down the runway so I can't really comment other than maybe control inputs against a cross wind. If the undercarriage needed an inspection it was because the inspection limits on all these parts are a LOT lower than the failure limits. I'm quite confident that the inspection did not even delay the next departure of the flight.

Do you think there is any truth in Qantas and Casa being secretive and covering up major maintenance problems though? The guys they interviewed seemed to have pretty good credentials.

Absolutely not. CASA and Qantas also have pretty good credentials. Without knowing who these people are/were all I can say is it's possible that people have there own agendas or simply a different opinion. As someone mentioned earlier ALL incidents and accidents are distributed world wide for all operators to review and work through. In the case you mention the relevence is that because of this distribution network the issues would then also get reviewed by the FAA who are the ultimate authority for Boeing aircraft or by the equivilent European authority for Airbus aircraft.

In any case all incidents/accidents in Australia are reviewed by the ATSB and not just CASA. Australian Transport Safety Bureau

I know planes are supposed to be safe but why did the Scanair plane crash (I think that was the name), why wasn't the problem picked up.

I don't know but the enquiry will establish the cause and that cause will be available both through the industry and publically to ensure the risk is minimised for the future.

When you consider all these things remember that the flying crew and the cabin crew are not going to do anything that is going to put themselves in danger as they want to be able to go home also :!:

 

[medhead]

or straitman's and Medhead's - that the media hypes things up ... Do you think there is any truth in Qantas and Casa being secretive and covering up major maintenance problems though? The guys they interviewed seemed to have pretty good credentials.

Your first trip sounds great.

On the media hype, the media are good at sounding very convincing. In the area I work in, the media are constantly accusing us of covering things up. This almost always gets headlines around Australia. But the thing is nothing is further from the truth we don't cover things up. And I can't imagine any government department would cover things up.

What usually happens is that we run scared of providing information because it is always hyped up and then one or two of us have to spend until 7 pm writing notes to the minister trying to explain a complex issue and why the media is wrong in words of 2 syllables or less, using only one page. This is not helped because the media often takes things that are half correct but jump to a completely wrong conclusion.

My work area is not related to CASA, but there seems to be common elements across all government departments.

I also know my wife's grandfather worked for CASA for many years and he is very honest. That probably doesn't help to judge today's staff but at least at some time there was a trustworthy culture, that could have been passed on.

 

[ScaredStupid]

What Tha??? QANTAS AGAIN !!! :shock:

What are they doing? I can't believe they are safe, seriously, how can there be so many problems.

Today another drama Perth to Brisbane, the same flight I'm supposed to be making on the 23rd Oct. I really don't think I want to go.

My husband said they have brought there maintenance back to Oz now, is this true?

 

[serfty]

What Tha??? QANTAS AGAIN !!! :shock: ...

My husband said they have brought there maintenance back to Oz now, is this true?

Basically for domestics, the "maintenance" never left Oz!

The rate of such incidents has not changed over the last few years; this year the rate of reporting of such incidents has increased big time.

 

[ScaredStupid]

Why would there be more reporting of these problems now and not before? Is Qantas just as safe as Virgin?

Is it just the 747's and big aircraft that have their maintenance done off shore? Not 737's 767's ...

I'm just worried that if there is an incident when I'm on a plane, I won't be able to handle it ... even if it doesn't crash, if I was on there and there was a problem - OMG!

 

[serfty]

Until I flew with my wife on our honeymoon, I could not believe how somone could be scared of flying. I did learn to understand very quickly. :-| She now happily travels the world; still nervous but copes very well.

The events were not reported so readily in prior years, I believe just about anything and everything is now due to two factors:

1. The LAME (Engineers) union having a cross to bear with outsourcing and a new pay regime - so were feeding information to news media, and
2. The issue with QF30 from HKG to MEL a short time ago - this was quite a major issue, in fact.

The reality is - no injuries or indeed, fatalities.

I have flown nearly 1000 times with Qantas in the past 14 years and have experienced delays, cancellations, aircraft substitutions and other issues (including aborted take off) I estimate about once in every 80 flights. Guess what? I always arrived where I was going (eventually).

Qantas have over 1000 flights each day - of course there's going to be the odd issue here and there.

 

[vitaminp]

Hi ScaredStupid,

There is more reporting of these "incidents" at the moment because the media is able to sell more papers/website hits/viewers by sensationalising events that occur the world over everyday. The media build one one very rare event (the O2 bottle hole in the 747) and it snowballs, getting more and more people scared.

The media also focuses on an irrational fear held by far too many Australians about (sorry to simongr for borrowing his term) "johnny foreigner" working on "our" aircraft. My view is - why would Qantas purchase a $100mil aircraft, and then not protect their investment by keeping it well maintained? And run the risk of long term damage to a very profitable brand.

These "incidents" prove exactly why I trust Qantas, a problem was identified, action taken, and a safe outcome secured. Aircraft are not always perfect, but have many redundancies built in. The crew are top notch and I would (and do) trust my life with them on a regular basis.

 

[ScaredStupid]

Thanks Serfty and VitaminP... I need all the reasurrance I can get, flying has been my biggest phobia and since doing the fear of flying course, I managed to fly for the first time in my life last year ... since all of this air safety business and a couple of "CRASHES" I feel like I've gone back to square one. I know the crashes are probably dodge airlines but it still scares the heck out of me just thinking about it. I hope I can manage to go on this trip in Oct. Thanks again..

 

[milehighclub]

1 in 100,000,000 flights has had an incident due to a mechanical problem of the aircraft, through no fault of any human.

1 in 1000 flights has a incident due to human area.

Qantas employes nothing but highly trained and qualified staff. While we can argue to the cows home about customer service, that aside all staff have the Qantas's safety as a top priority. It's drilled in constantly and for good reason.

Prior to every flight engineers must complete an inspection of the aircraft and sign off on it. No engineer unless he or she wants to end up in jail would sign off on an unsafe aircraft upon inspection on the ground. In addition to the inspection by engineers, pilots also inspect the aircraft as part of their many checklists. On board the cabin crew are conducting their inspections as well. If a fault is noticed, and it needs repairing expect the delayed sign to come up on your flight. The Qantas policy is and always has been Safety before Scheduled and while a delay might be frustrating, I doubt a single user here would say they would prefer the aircraft to depart.

Qantas pilots regularly go through training and simulations every 3 months and cabin crew every 6. This is in addition to other training days completed once a year.

As other users have mentioned, aircraft cannot exactly pull over to the side of the road if something goes wrong, and because of that countless back up systems are in place.

No one on this board spends as much time onboard Qantas aircraft as me (and my colleague over at FT ( and no were not the same person!!) and I wouldn't be stepping onboard if I didn't feel 100% certain my safety is not compromised. As we have been alerted to, more so in the last few weeks, incidents do happen, but trained staff are there to handle these situations when things go wrong. QF30 could of been an catastrophe, but the pilots and cabin crew responded quickly, professionally and preformed a text book emergency decompression and no body was injured or harmed because we are all trained for "when things go wrong".

Come October, I would take no hesitation on stepping onboard a Qantas flight (or any other Australian Airline) knowing that the strict guidelines that govern aviation in Australia and highly skilled and trained staff are there to get me somewhere safely, and respond if something does go wrong to ensure no one gets harmed.

 

[mr_greg444]

Think of it this way...

There is a much higher chance of you being killed in a car than in a plane.

Most people travel in cars everyday without any worries. Heaps of people get killed in cars everyday. Hardly anyone gets killed in planes.


These are the rough odds of being killed in a plane vs a car:

Plane: 13,500,000:1
Car: 4900:1

As for all the Qantas incidents, Apart from the hole in the side of the plane, the media is making a big issue of nothing. Virgin is no safer than Qantas. Most of these are Australian Airlines are the same in terms of safety.

Hope this Helps.