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Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?

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NoName

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Sounds like he had no good reason to be out, until he eventually 'remembered' he was allowed to be out for exercise, and so used that?

Not being able to get your story straight is a sure way to arouse suspicion. No surprise they concluded that his eventual exercise story was BS.
 

dajop

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Agree. If you provide two or three excuses then none are correct.
It also belies a lack of intelligence or of being under the influence of something that impairs judgement. How hard is to remember "I am out walking for the purpose of exercising. I am out walking for the purpose of exercising ..."
 

Peter D

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We can debate the hypothetical value of different actions on the spread of a virus and there will always be things that I will want to do that will not actually spread germs but is not allowed by the general rule.

Such discussions in the proper quarters will be important as we slowly return to something near normal. But there will still be need for someone (the government hopefully with good advice) to set the rules.

The issue today is that we are all confined to home and importantly do not move around within the population. Basically we have to stay home.

But we are allowed some concessions that are very specifically defined. Other reasons can’t be added on to them.

In my case I would like to re-oil my deck. It’s a good time to do it. But not essential.

On my daily walk or if I go to the bread shop I can walk past a very good local paint shop. But popping in to buy a can of deck oil is not an essential purchase. So it can wait.

I wouldn’t withdraw a fine for driving lessons 30 km from home. Publicizing these cases may create risk opportunities for scorn by some but it can also drive home the message not to move around.

Subtle reasons why my personal/special case may not actually spread germs is too messy to be catered for in a general lock down. It would be impossible.

We just have to lump it and get on with life (in isolation at home).

PS My comments realte to the Victorisn restrictions..
 

Hillbilly64

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Don't forget you can't fix stupid


And....because this thread went quite for a bit..but is rampant again....
Don't feed the trolls.. especially if they watch fox news
 

nutwood

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We can debate the hypothetical value of different actions on the spread of a virus and there will always be things that I will want to do that will not actually spread germs but is not allowed by the general rule.

Such discussions in the proper quarters will be important as we slowly return to something near normal. But there will still be need for someone (the government hopefully with good advice) to set the rules.

The issue today is that we are all confined to home and importantly do not move around within the population. Basically we have to stay home.

But we are allowed some concessions that are very specifically defined. Other reasons can’t be added on to them.

In my case I would like to re-oil my deck. It’s a good time to do it. But not essential.

On my daily walk or if I go to the bread shop I can walk past a very good local paint shop. But popping in to buy a can of deck oil is not an essential purchase. So it can wait.

I wouldn’t withdraw a fine for driving lessons 30 km from home. Publicizing these cases may create risk opportunities for scorn by some but it can also drive home the message not to move around.

Subtle reasons why my personal/special case may not actually spread germs is too messy to be catered for in a general lock down. It would be impossible.

We just have to lump it and get on with life (in isolation at home).

PS My comments realte to the Victorisn restrictions..
I understand the point you are making but I find that I can't agree with it.
From what we are being told, this virus could be around for a while, life still has to go on. Exactly how are you spreading a virus by popping in to purchase a can of deck oil? I'm assuming that appropriate distances and the such like are adhered to. You're supporting a local business, in just the same way as purchasing bread. I make my own bread so could argue that bread is non-essential whereas deck oil, which I can't make (sump oil and kerosene does work but....) has to be purchased.
I think we have to very careful just how much basic liberty and common sense we sacrifice to this. Why would you uphold a fine for a driving lesson 30 km from home? How are two people in a car spreading a virus, unless they are actively sneezing out of open windows? I understand the need to keep it simple in order to minimize enforcement but a bit of perspective is in order and when they start penalising people (as opposed to a chat and a warning), for activities that do no harm, I start hearing alarm bells.
 

Pushka

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We can debate the hypothetical value of different actions on the spread of a virus and there will always be things that I will want to do that will not actually spread germs but is not allowed by the general rule.

Such discussions in the proper quarters will be important as we slowly return to something near normal. But there will still be need for someone (the government hopefully with good advice) to set the rules.

The issue today is that we are all confined to home and importantly do not move around within the population. Basically we have to stay home.

But we are allowed some concessions that are very specifically defined. Other reasons can’t be added on to them.

In my case I would like to re-oil my deck. It’s a good time to do it. But not essential.

On my daily walk or if I go to the bread shop I can walk past a very good local paint shop. But popping in to buy a can of deck oil is not an essential purchase. So it can wait.

I wouldn’t withdraw a fine for driving lessons 30 km from home. Publicizing these cases may create risk opportunities for scorn by some but it can also drive home the message not to move around.

Subtle reasons why my personal/special case may not actually spread germs is too messy to be catered for in a general lock down. It would be impossible.

We just have to lump it and get on with life (in isolation at home).

PS My comments realte to the Victorisn restrictions..
I heard that Harvey Norman is open. Buying furniture is never essential but it’s allowed. In SA anyway. I think a paint purchase is ok.
 
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I understand the point you are making but I find that I can't agree with it.
From what we are being told, this virus could be around for a while, life still has to go on. Exactly how are you spreading a virus by popping in to purchase a can of deck oil? I'm assuming that appropriate distances and the such like are adhered to. You're supporting a local business, in just the same way as purchasing bread. I make my own bread so could argue that bread is non-essential whereas deck oil, which I can't make (sump oil and kerosene does work but....) has to be purchased.
I think we have to very careful just how much basic liberty and common sense we sacrifice to this. Why would you uphold a fine for a driving lesson 30 km from home? How are two people in a car spreading a virus, unless they are actively sneezing out of open windows? I understand the need to keep it simple in order to minimize enforcement but a bit of perspective is in order and when they start penalising people (as opposed to a chat and a warning), for activities that do no harm, I start hearing alarm bells.
Good heavens!! How much liberty we sacrifice? We're talking about a few weeks! We're not embarking on some journey into a dystopian society.

As you said, you understand the reason to keep it simple. The only people that seem to be confused are those that are deliberately and willfully confused. They'll come up with a half a dozen reasons why they shouldn't have to comply. Fines? If you don't enforce the law, it's pretty much useless. The argument would then be... 'if the government was being serious they'd issue fines'.

What's the saying? Our grandparents gave up their lives fighting two wars to protect us. All we have to do is spend two weeks on the couch to protect them.
 

nutwood

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What's the saying? Our grandparents gave up their lives fighting two wars to protect us. All we have to do is spend two weeks on the couch to protect them.
The question I was posing was in the context of the six months that's being touted, not "two weeks on the couch". You'll find that during the two wars, life still went on. I believe Parliament even continued to sit!
 
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The question I was posing was in the context of the six months that's being touted, not "two weeks on the couch". You'll find that during the two wars, life still went on. I believe Parliament even continued to sit!
Even if it's six months! Which it probably won't be given how well the majority of people have been respecting the lockdown(s). If everyone took the same attitude that 'it doesn't matter what I do' we wouldn't be in such a good position (as Pushka alluded to).

During the wars families were separated for months or years. One week into our lockdown and people are outraged they weren't allowed to visit their girl/boy-friends :(
 

serfty

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On my daily walk or if I go to the bread shop I can walk past a very good local paint shop. But popping in to buy a can of deck oil is not an essential purchase. So it can wait
....
PS My comments realte to the Victorisn restrictions..
But in Victoria you can buy paint/hardware, Bunnings is open - if a store is legitimately open you can buy from there ... Just don't sit on a park bench eating a kebab on the way home.
 

drron

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Good heavens!! How much liberty we sacrifice? We're talking about a few weeks! We're not embarking on some journey into a dystopian society.

As you said, you understand the reason to keep it simple. The only people that seem to be confused are those that are deliberately and willfully confused. They'll come up with a half a dozen reasons why they shouldn't have to comply. Fines? If you don't enforce the law, it's pretty much useless. The argument would then be... 'if the government was being serious they'd issue fines'.

What's the saying? Our grandparents gave up their lives fighting two wars to protect us. All we have to do is spend two weeks on the couch to protect them.
No we are all different.The fact that calls to Lifeline's suicide prevention line have skyrocketed over the last month means there are many not coping with self isolation and not because they are stupid,idiots or not intelligent.
let's get back a little of our humanity.
If a business is allowed to remain open surely unless you are in mandatory quarantine you should be able to use that business providing it is nearby.And going into a paint shop that is on the way to the allowable bakery surely should not be prohibited.
 

Peter D

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I understand the point you are making but I find that I can't agree with it.
From what we are being told, this virus could be around for a while, life still has to go on. Exactly how are you spreading a virus by popping in to purchase a can of deck oil? I'm assuming that appropriate distances and the such like are adhered to. You're supporting a local business, in just the same way as purchasing bread. I make my own bread so could argue that bread is non-essential whereas deck oil, which I can't make (sump oil and kerosene does work but....) has to be purchased.
I think we have to very careful just how much basic liberty and common sense we sacrifice to this. Why would you uphold a fine for a driving lesson 30 km from home? How are two people in a car spreading a virus, unless they are actively sneezing out of open windows? I understand the need to keep it simple in order to minimize enforcement but a bit of perspective is in order and when they start penalising people (as opposed to a chat and a warning), for activities that do no harm, I start hearing alarm bells.
I agree with you we must not lightly accept the suppression of liberty and indeed be concerned. But at the moment the advice (and the law) seems to be keep our distance and don’t move around.

In most areas I would prefer freedom to control but the law as it stands in Victoria is stricter than some other states basically it says don’t leave home except for Work, Education, Medical, Local exercise and Essential supplies. That’s it.

I am also in an age group that is strongly advised to observe stricter rules. So my son does our supermarket shopping.
 

Peter D

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I heard that Harvey Norman is open. Buying furniture is never essential but it’s allowed. In SA anyway. I think a paint purchase is ok.
One of my sons works for Goodguys. Being on the “what is essential” theme tonight, I asked him what are Goodguys selling. He said a lot of small things like coffee makers. (I suppose the toasters VA’s monopoly these last few days).

But the main sales are freezers, they are walking out the doors as fast as they come in. So much for no more hoarding.
 

juddles

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I hate queues. Always have. Best part of being a super-traveller is avoiding queues in airports. But today there were queues at the entrance of woolies and coles. I choose to starve...
 

Peter D

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I hate queues. Always have. Best part of being a super-traveller is avoiding queues in airports. But today there were queues at the entrance of woolies and coles. I choose to starve...
Well there’s an original solution. It might work.

Don’t tell Mr Andrews or he will rethink this essential supplies business.
 
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No we are all different.The fact that calls to Lifeline's suicide prevention line have skyrocketed over the last month means there are many not coping with self isolation and not because they are stupid,idiots or not intelligent.
let's get back a little of our humanity.
If a business is allowed to remain open surely unless you are in mandatory quarantine you should be able to use that business providing it is nearby.And going into a paint shop that is on the way to the allowable bakery surely should not be prohibited.
I didn't use the words stupid, idiot or not intelligent. But I did make the observation that those 'confused' are really meaning 'I don't agree'. There's nothing to be confused about as the rules are pretty clear unless you are actively looking to create an excuse.
 
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I hate queues. Always have. Best part of being a super-traveller is avoiding queues in airports. But today there were queues at the entrance of woolies and coles. I choose to starve...
I hate queues too. I am happy to trade less choice for no queues and more space.

I find that certain times of the day are a lot less busy and I shop then. This will no doubt be different in different areas, but I often find that around 10am or a bit later is less crowded.
 
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