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Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?

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Renato1

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After spending all weekend seeing articles of people hyperventilating about irresponsible people at Bondi Beach - with accompanying photos clearly showing most people spaced well apart - as well as numerous Facebook reposts of articles, well, it just didn't make sense logically.

Given the choice of the safest thing to do between going to the beach or going into a train/aeroplane which is the safest?
I'd have picked the beach.

But then I came across this article about lessons from the Spanish flu where, if applicable to the Coronavirus, given the choice of the safest thing to do between going to the beach and staying cooped up inside one's house - the answer would unambiguously be going to the beach (since mortality rates dropped from 40% to 13% by using sun and fresh air).

Which then raises the question of whether governments are acting irresponsibly by closing down beaches.
Regards,
Renato
 
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I don't know what you were looking at, but what I saw was thousands of people all sitting round with their mates, taking in close groups on the sand and up on the grass banks and the promenade, and sitting too close both on the beach and standing in the water. I agree with someone who said they earned the 'selfish and stupid award'.
 

tomcut2000

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It should have been shut earlier as the consequences of not doing so would have killed everyone.. that would not be good for anyone or for the country!
 

dajop

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There are beaches, and then there is Bondi. I am not sure why the conversation about beaches and Bondi need to be the same. There's probably a handful of beaches across the country that fall into the same category as Bondi, where some capacity controls, or closing the beach altogether may be necessary.

But mostly, Australian beaches are wonderfully empty!
 
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They will be 'policing' those busy beaches, not the blissfully empty ones.

There are beaches, and then there is Bondi. I am not sure why the conversation about beaches and Bondi need to be the same. There's probably a handful of beaches across the country that fall into the same category as Bondi, where some capacity controls, or closing the beach altogether may be necessary.

But mostly, Australian beaches are wonderfully empty!
 

samh004

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I think the beaches should be closed to discourage large groups from attending, but if you want to go (knowing full well there will be no one there to save you) then you shouldn't be stopped. After all, it's a beach, a public space.

But as noted upthread, there's a difference between a small cove like Bondi (not even 1KM) and the bloody Gold Coast that stretches from the Spit to Miami without a gap (15KM).
 
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nickfromeastryde

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Keep in mind how most of those people are probably getting there, bus and train make Bondi one of Sydney's most accessible

Also, many of those beachgoers are tourists and even now, the majority of the infections have originated from tourists or Australians returning from overseas

I think it was definitely the right thing to do to close the beach down
 

Renato1

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I don't know what you were looking at, but what I saw was thousands of people all sitting round with their mates, taking in close groups on the sand and up on the grass banks and the promenade, and sitting too close both on the beach and standing in the water. I agree with someone who said they earned the 'selfish and stupid award'.
Attached is a typical picture I saw - plenty of space between people.

If people were standing too close to each other at the beach, that's no different from people standing to close to each other in a mall, footpath or supermarket - where one tells them to stand apart, rather than close the mall, footpath or supermarket down.

Regards,
Renato

bondi1.jpg
 
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Attached is a typical picture I saw - plenty of space between people.

If people were standing too close to each other at the beach, that's no different from people standing to close to each other in a mall, footpath or supermarket - where one tells them to stand apart, rather than close the mall, footpath or supermarket down.

Regards,
Renato

View attachment 210550
I think need to understand that one of our main tools at present to slow the infection rate is contact tracing.

So say 5 people, or even only one test positive for CV 19 out of this lot (Given the backpackers testing positive that was probably exceeded). What hope in hell would our contact tracers have of identifying anyone to advise them to go into isolation?

This is why spectators at major sporting events were banned.

This is why large gatherings have been banned.

This is also now why restaurants and other leisure venues have now all been closed.

It is not just that one person might infect another, it is that contact tracing who needs to go into isolation is at best very difficult and in cases such as the pic above impossible.



Closing Bondi was 100% the right call. If you can find an uncrowded beach go for. But chockful beaches etc are 100% what we do not need at present.


PS and even that one pic clearly shows people close enough together to transmit or catch CV 19.
 
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Renato1

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I think need to understand that one of our main tools at present slow the infection rate is contact tracing.

So say 5 people, or even only one test positive for CV 19 out of this lot (Given the backpackers testing positive that was probably exceeded). What hope in hell would our contact tracers have of identifying anyone to advise them to go into isolation?

This is why spectators at major sporting events were banned.

This is why large gatherings have been banned.

This is also now why restaurants and other leisure venues have now all been closed.

It is not just that one person might infect another, it is that contact tracing who needs to go into isolation is at best very difficult and in cases such as the pic above impossible.



Closing Bondi was 100% the right call. If you can find an uncrowded beach go for. But chockful beaches etc are 100% what we do not need at present.


PS and even that one pic clearly shows people close enough together to transmit or catch CV 19.
Don't agree. The picture shows couples sitting next to each other - they'd already have transmitted the virus to each other long before they got to the beach. Everyone else is far apart. When was the last time you went to the beach and sat within a meter of a stranger?

No point comparing that beach with people who don't know each other sitting a reasonable distance apart, to major sporting events and restaurants where people are forced to be in closer proximity.

And when people do the more frequent activity of sitting in confined train and tram carriages, the idea of contact tracing goes totally out the window.
Regards,
Renato
 
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If people were standing too close to each other at the beach, that's no different from people standing to close to each other in a ... supermarket
There's a very important difference. One activity is essential. Going to the beach is not.

part of the reason for the 'non-essential' shutdowns is that people are irresponsible. Lots of pictures on facebook, instagram, other social media of people in pubs, restuarants, parties... close together. So where does that leave us? Ban them all.
 
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And when people do the more frequent activity of sitting in confined train and tram carriages, the idea of contact tracing goes totally out the window.
Regards,
Renato
Even putting aside the advice on sustained contact, yes obviously contact tracing must immediately be abandoned for it cannot be done in one circumstance then mass gathering must be allowed. What were the Singaporeans and South Koreans thinking? Clearly much better to follow the Italian approach despite what the Italians are now advising not what too do.

.
 
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Isn't the virus killed by UV...of which there would have been an abundance on the beach.
I have been at the beach suffering from other corona-viruses (ie flu) in the past, but was not instantly cured and it lasted just as long.

I assume that meant that I could still pass it on to others?
 
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Pushka

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I think need to understand that one of our main tools at present slow the infection rate is contact tracing.

So say 5 people, or even only one test positive for CV 19 out of this lot (Given the backpackers testing positive that was probably exceeded). What hope in hell would our contact tracers have of identifying anyone to advise them to go into isolation?

This is why spectators at major sporting events were banned.

This is why large gatherings have been banned.

This is also now why restaurants and other leisure venues have now all been closed.

It is not just that one person might infect another, it is that contact tracing who needs to go into isolation is at best very difficult and in cases such as the pic above impossible.



Closing Bondi was 100% the right call. If you can find an uncrowded beach go for. But chockful beaches etc are 100% what we do not need at present.


PS and even that one pic clearly shows people close enough together to transmit or catch CV 19.
This is exactly what the Medical Head of our SA Health dept said today. Tracing is paramount in the fight. And she is very impressive.
 
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