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Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?

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Renato1

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Well the easiest part of your response is the question of the Africans.Covid 19 infects by attaching to human ACE receptor.We use ACE inhibitors to treat high blood pressure.It is well known that Africans don't respond to ACE inhibitors.So it is quite likely a genetic reason for their low rates of infection.

Secondly you quote 1 virologist who is an NBC Science reporter,Also don't mention where he works-the lefties will go beserk. ;)Fair is a senior fellow at The Scowcroft Institute at the George Bush School of International Affairs, Texas A&M University.

My source is a research unit who spent over 40 years researching cold viruses.
Plus there are many more such research projects such as the Pittsburgh cold study.
Sorry mate I have a full house and you have only Ace high.
Hi Dr Ron,
I'd say the question of genetics versus anti-malaria drugs for Africans is still up in the air - but will be made clearer when the tallies are made up of whether African American are hospitalised and die at a minuscule rates compared to Caucasians in teh USA, or whether that occurs at the same rate.

Not sure you can consider it to have Trumped me by citing Dr Fair's current senior fellowship, when I've Trumped you by citing him because he reports for one of the most Anti-Trump news networks in America.

Anyhow, as to the question of sunlight being a natural disinfectant, you've raised with one article,
and I'll raise with three more.
Cheers,
Renato
 

Renato1

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At the risk of being called every name under the sun, I live at Bondi Beach and was on the beach - with my Epidemiologist husband - on the day it was closed. We spent about an hour at the southern end on the sand and in the water, and didn't come within 10 metres of another person the entire time. I appreciate the northern end may have been different, and hence has 'ruined it for everyone'.
I asked my husband about the risk, and he said it was the lowest risk thing we did all day, we were much closer to others in the supermarket and just walking down the street. The unfortunate consequence has been - in a suburb where many people have no private outdoor space, not even a balcony - locals seeking exercise and fresh air have been pushed onto paths and into parks that are a lot more crowded.
I accept that it was perhaps needed as a 'gesture' to make people take it more seriously, but the Council have taken it way too seriously by implementing a 24/7 closure in my opinion, I hope its opened again as the weather cools and large crowds are unlikely.
Doesn't make much sense does it?

On the other hand, the better off can get all the sunlight they like in their home pools (like my two neighbours who were splashing away all weekend) but we have to keep the sunlight away from the riff-raff.
Cheers,
Renato
 

Renato1

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No, but there have been cases of person-to-person transmission. Which is why we (a) need to stay at home and (b) if we have to go out, we invoke social distancing.

If we allow people to spend the day at the beach, that sends a confusing message and contradicts 'stay at home unless absolutely necessary'.
There have been cases of person-to-person transmission from people sitting on the beach separated by two three or ten meters?

I hadn't heard that.......anywhere.
Regards,
Renato
 
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There have been cases of person-to-person transmission from people sitting on the beach separated by two three or ten meters?

I hadn't heard that.......anywhere.
Regards,
Renato
The rules are, no social gatherings outside. No outside activity other than food, medical, work, or exercise. Sitting on the beach does not come under those exceptions.

You have then argued that sitting on the beach should be an added exception, because sunlight has disinfectant properties. Medical evidence suggests that the UVC light you would need for this purpose is dangerous.

So, without a pressing exception, the beach should therefore remain on the banned list.
 

Renato1

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Renato - you're perhaps looking at bacteria - not a virus.

This is the article you might want to reference: Can you kill coronavirus with UV light?
Yes, I saw that article a while back. If true, well, no stopping this virus with tank-like features - and most of the population would be infected in weeks.

However, somewhere in this interview, Dr Centeno says the opposite - that the virus just doesn't last that long out in the open because of sunlight and heat.

Also, the original article I posted related to sunlight and death rates during the Spanish flu. They didn't have anti-biotics back then to stop secondary infections, and didn't know anything about Vitamin D. That sunlight did something to bring down the mortality rates is indisputable. What exactly it was, may be the subject of conjecture, unless someone has studied it in depth.
Regards,
Renato.
 

drron

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Renato1 you still haven't linked to any study that shows Covid 19 is killed by sunlight.The flu virus is not a corona virus.you can't say because some anecdotes suggest the flu virus was killed by sunlight then so will a corona virus.
And as many on here have tried to tell you the main reason both rhinoviruses and the corona viruses are less prevalent in summers is because there is greater social distancing.
However your mind is obviously closed.From other threads once you have made your mind up every opposing idea is automatically wrong.
Don't bother replying as I won't make another comment on this thread.
 

Pushka

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Agree that the closure of the beach is drastic, but being on the beach is a choice. Obtaining food is not a choice. It's essential. And that's the guiding principle now. It does seem like supermarkets will start having to distance and control the people entering though.
 

Guvner

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It does seem like supermarkets will start having to distance and control the people entering though.
Supermarkets and shops around me have been doing that for over a week already.
One in, one out, max 10 customers at a time in the shop etc.
 
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There have been cases of person-to-person transmission from people sitting on the beach separated by two three or ten meters?

I hadn't heard that.......anywhere.
Regards,
Renato
No not anywhere as you continue to state what others have not said. You continue to to spout distortions of what is the truth.

You have the Renato Filter. You only hear and see what fits your own view of the world, and then distort what others have said..

You damn well know the problem with the large beach gatherings was all the people who gathered close together and often in groups. This was clearly on display to all but your eyes. The Renato eyes.

Towels were set together, people lay about in rings lying or chatting, applying suncsreen on each other and general horseplay (we all have seen the footage on various beaches throughout Australia and yet you continue to spout nonsenical rubbish such as a demand for data showing cases for transmission at two, three or ten meters..

Close contact is dangerous, and this has been known from even the era of the Spanish Flu. They close public venues then. We have closed them now if suitable spacing was not be observed.

The beaches were closed as social distancing was not being practiced by everyone. We all know apart from Renato how viruses such as CV 19 can rapidly spread. It only takes small number to create havoc.



The other thing that is dangerous at present apart from close contact is the deliberate spreading of wrong information and poor advice.
 

straitman

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Renato1,

It seems to me that this thread is you against the everyone and that you argue against some answers, ignore others and never actually answer a lot of comments.

Irrespective, I ask that if you truely believe what you are saying what would you do or say to actually resolve the situation/issues and help remedy the spread of COVID-19?
I repeat my post #161.

In any case it is now irrelevant as Victoria and NSW have introduced enforceable restrictions for groups (other than family groups) of greater than two people.

In Victoria it is a $1600 fine starting at midnight tonight.
 

JohnK

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Beaches in SA aren't closed. I guess we got left off the plan.
Laugh and ignore. That makes people feel much better.

The world has come to a standstill. Of that there is no doubt. Our lives are disrupted. We will lose loved ones and friends. No one knows how long this disruption will last and there's every possibility this will trigger GFC II if it hasn't already done so.

The cause? Mother nature? Accidental or random event? Man made? I don't think we'll ever know and I don't think we'll ever know the truth.
 

Renato1

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No not anywhere as you continue to state what others have not said. You continue to to spout distortions of what is the truth.

You have the Renato Filter. You only hear and see what fits your own view of the world, and then distort what others have said..

You damn well know the problem with the large beach gatherings was all the people who gathered close together and often in groups. This was clearly on display to all but your eyes. The Renato eyes.

Towels were set together, people lay about in rings lying or chatting, applying suncsreen on each other and general horseplay (we all have seen the footage on various beaches throughout Australia and yet you continue to spout nonsenical rubbish such as a demand for data showing cases for transmission at two, three or ten meters..

Close contact is dangerous, and this has been known from even the era of the Spanish Flu. They close public venues then. We have closed them now if suitable spacing was not be observed.

The beaches were closed as social distancing was not being practiced by everyone. We all know apart from Renato how viruses such as CV 19 can rapidly spread. It only takes small number to create havoc.



The other thing that is dangerous at present apart from close contact is the deliberate spreading of wrong information and poor advice.
"You only hear and see what fits your own view of the world, "
In the words of the leader of the Free World last week - and I saw him saying it - when asked by the hostile press corp about whether the beaches in Florida should be closed, President Trump said that -
They are very very big beaches....miles long (as in "What are you going on about?)

So I take comfort that my world view is as sensible as that of President Trump.

As for the rest of what you write - you continue to espouse the nutty notion that you learned in primary school to punish the entire class for the transgression of the few.

You are into collective punishment.

Consistent with my positon from the beginning, I instead prefer individual punishment where the Police to go along the beach and hand out $1650 to each of the small numbers of people violating the social distance rules, and leaving the vast majority of those complying with the rules alone.
Regards,
Renato
 

Renato1

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My wife and I went down to Westhead and Flinders Ocean Beach today to do our exercise.
Hardly anyone there except for surfers.
Very tiring going down and up the stair path.

I was a tad annoyed though. The beaches weren't closed - had I known I would have brought my bathers and towel.
Cheers,
Renato
 

Quickstatus

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The Bondi Beach situation is more about the optics than anything else. It was an indication that people were travelling and still extremely mobile and congregating and it gave the impression that many were not taking SoDi seriously. So there was one vocal group who wanted more done and another group who seemingly could not be bothered and went to the beach and attended Corona parties etc.

The Government had to reassert the message that everyone needed to be on the same page and doing the same thing. Hence the closure.

Now these areas of congregations are deserted meaning there is less travel to these areas

Over the course of human history, it is a common feature that pandemics love highly mobile populations. By closing Bondi, the Govt shut down some of the non-essential mobility that was occurring and sent a message that this was serious without pandering to the Armageddon group.

............

If the sun follows the virus into the lungs and bloodstream or where it gets in. :confused:
there are bits where the sun dont shine
 
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"You only hear and see what fits your own view of the world, "
In the words of the leader of the Free World last week - and I saw him saying it - when asked by the hostile press corp about whether the beaches in Florida should be closed, President Trump said that -
They are very very big beaches....miles long (as in "What are you going on about?)

So I take comfort that my world view is as sensible as that of President Trump.

As for the rest of what you write - you continue to espouse the nutty notion that you learned in primary school to punish the entire class for the transgression of the few.

You are into collective punishment.

Consistent with my positon from the beginning, I instead prefer individual punishment where the Police to go along the beach and hand out $1650 to each of the small numbers of people violating the social distance rules, and leaving the vast majority of those complying with the rules alone.
Regards,
Renato

I prefer saving lives and as many as possible.

Beaches in the USA? Many are closed due to CV 19. Fortunately many USA Officials have not waited for the slow acting Trump.
 
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I live three minutes drive from the beach - and I come home exhausted from all that exercise.
Cheers,
Renato


My wife and I went down to Westhead and Flinders Ocean Beach today to do our exercise.

Cheers,
Renato
I assume you did not drive to the beach as you do understand that you are meant exercise where you can walk to/ from where you live?

No. As Daniel Andrews put it, "‘getting some exercise’ means going for a walk around the block or a bike ride to stretch your legs and get some fresh air. It means staying local – not driving for miles or being out all day." So no, you should not be going out and doing massive day hikes or driving down to your beach house for the day. You need to stay put.
 
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Renato1

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I assume you did not drive to the beach as you do understand that you are meant exercise where you can walk to/ from where you live?

No. As Daniel Andrews put it, "‘getting some exercise’ means going for a walk around the block or a bike ride to stretch your legs and get some fresh air. It means staying local – not driving for miles or being out all day." So no, you should not be going out and doing massive day hikes or driving down to your beach house for the day. You need to stay put.
The new Stage 3,

"We’re also telling Victorians – there are only 4 reasons to be out:
*shopping for what you need - food and essential supplies
*medical, care or compassionate needs
*exercise in compliance with the public gathering requirements
*work and study if you can’t work or learn remotely."

I complied with those rules, even though it was only Stage 2 earlier today.
Regards,
Renato
 
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