Do you like titles (eg Mr / Mrs / Miss / Dr / etc)?

[JessicaTam]

I am addressed as either ma'am or my rank at work. Just the way it is.

And just because you think I am of a 'mature' age, don't ever call me Mrs! (Besides, it ain't legal in AU).

 

[Quickstatus]

That's interesting as it's not what I have on my BP's.
QF, VA, BA all have Dr (no exceptions) whether online or TA bookings.
CX, AA, US all have no title whatsoever.

Ill assume you are a medical dr also. In which case there should be no reason why it cannot be Dr instead of DOCTOR. Perhaps DOCTOR is for medical dr instead of dr for PhD etc.???

 

[drron]

Of course Sydney Uni is now going to issue an MD as the basic qualification in medicine.Stops all the arguments about who is a real doctor.Though as I point out Physicians were called doctors well before there were PHDs.

As to medical clothing.I still wear a tie and in Tasmania long sleeves.Anyone who is silly enough to talk to me about the bacteria they harbour I jus ask when did they last clean their stethoscope.Most never have.

 

[Programme]

Of course Sydney Uni is now going to issue an MD as the basic qualification in medicine.Stops all the arguments about who is a real doctor.Though as I point out Physicians were called doctors well before there were PHDs.

Delving deep into semantics here, the Sydney MD (as well as DMD and JD) are AQF level 9 qualifications, or masters' degree level, despite the name. The same goes for the University of Melbourne, which has adopted similar nomenclature for their new degrees. A PhD is a level 10 qualification. The new naming and structure of the courses doesn't solve the conundrum of why MD (and DMD/DDS) graduates use the tile Dr without having a PhD, while people in other fields trained to the same level (JD) do not. It's easier just to explain it as tradition!

 

[Princess Fiona]

Ill assume you are a medical dr also. In which case there should be no reason why it cannot be Dr instead of DOCTOR. Perhaps DOCTOR is for medical dr instead of dr for PhD etc.???

Not sure, Shrek also has Dr on his BP's and like me is a medical dr.
I have had TA booked flights where the pax name appears as PrincessFionadr Surname. Looks a bit weird on the booking reference but the BP still has Dr PrincessFiona Surname like all the others.

 

[spudseamus]

Ok I'm old school ! I do like to be referred as Mr. On the first meting but usually quickly ask to be called first name ! Only time I didn't do this on an airline was a few years ago on Lufstanza ! Just let me say " I'm a mirror of your attitude "

 

[vetrade]

Of course Sydney Uni is now going to issue an MD as the basic qualification in medicine.Stops all the arguments about who is a real doctor.

Must say I'm surprised, drron. That comment is just so disrespectful of the intelligence and capabilities of many many highly educated people.

 

[blackcat20]

Must say I'm surprised, drron. That comment is just so disrespectful of the intelligence and capabilities of many many highly educated people.

I'm inclined to agree, people with doctorates are also 'real doctors'.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Must say I'm surprised, drron. That comment is just so disrespectful of the intelligence and capabilities of many many highly educated people.

I didn't take it that way at all and I'm sure drron didn't mean it like that either.
Real doctors in the true (academic) sense are of course those who have a PhD and real medical doctors have a primary degree in medicine.
People may be both, either or neither and I think the MD thing by Sydney Uni is a clumsy attempt to bring we poor medics up to the same level academically on paper.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm inclined to agree, people with doctorates are also 'real doctors'.

Actually doctor in its original Latin form. Means teacher as I recall

 

[anat0l]

I'm trying to look at the AQF semantics and so on and it's doing my head in. So the change by University of Sydney (as well as a slew of others, as I've quickly read up) doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It certainly doesn't do much to justify to me how one knows how to be eligible to be called a "Doctor" or not. Someone who had a MBBS (as I would know it) is supposedly a "Doctor", and in the sense that most people (lay people) know a doctor to be, i.e. they diagnose conditions in people, they are trained in the medical field, they have taken an oath to help people as best they can in that skill field.

Of course, my sister is a dentist, having completed a Bachelor of Dental Science (BDSc), and naturally she is called a "doctor".

Now my head is done in when we think of other "medical" people, such as surgeons, chiropractors, naturopaths, optometrists, and the whole gamut of specialists, "-ologists" and "-tricians" who practice on people.

Someone help? (Sorry for slight O/T...)


I don't buy the "real doctors" argument. Call me vain, perhaps, but the "doctor" qualification is simply a reflection of the person's achievement (which also calls to attention who should be addressed as such, given their qualification). I don't know if you would give your occupation as a "doctor" if your qualification is a Doctor of Philosophy (I wouldn't - that's confusing IMO - I prefer to say "Doctoral Graduate"), but I thought that's not what is being argued here.

 

[wingspan]

I'm trying to look at the AQF semantics and so on and it's doing my head in. So the change by University of Sydney (as well as a slew of others, as I've quickly read up) doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It certainly doesn't do much to justify to me how one knows how to be eligible to be called a "Doctor" or not. Someone who had a MBBS (as I would know it) is supposedly a "Doctor", and in the sense that most people (lay people) know a doctor to be, i.e. they diagnose conditions in people, they are trained in the medical field, they have taken an oath to help people as best they can in that skill field.

Calling someone 'doctor' isn't really related to AQF so you don't need to get your head around it if you're not familiar with it. We call MBBS graduates 'doctor' as a custom - it's an honorary title we use for them rather than related to the degree they completed.

Of course, my sister is a dentist, having completed a Bachelor of Dental Science (BDSc), and naturally she is called a "doctor".

That's certainly unusual in Australia. It's more common in some other places (such as the UK), but to call a BDSc 'doctor' would be out of the norm here.

Now my head is done in when we think of other "medical" people, such as surgeons, chiropractors, naturopaths, optometrists, and the whole gamut of specialists, "-ologists" and "-tricians" who practice on people.

Someone help? (Sorry for slight O/T...)

We don't restrict the use of the title 'doctor' in Australia - so just like someone who completed a BDSc wouldn't normally call themselves 'doctors' but they can, someone could be a naturopath and refer to themselves as 'doctor. What we do restrict in Aus is the use of 'medical practitioner' - you can only refer to yourself as such if you are a registered medical practitioner.

I don't buy the "real doctors" argument. Call me vain, perhaps, but the "doctor" qualification is simply a reflection of the person's achievement (which also calls to attention who should be addressed as such, given their qualification). I don't know if you would give your occupation as a "doctor" if your qualification is a Doctor of Philosophy (I wouldn't - that's confusing IMO - I prefer to say "Doctoral Graduate"), but I thought that's not what is being argued here.

But that's where profession and title are different. As for PhDs, we wouldn't call ourselves 'doctor' OR 'doctoral graduates' if asked what our profession was - because that's not our profession. We might say lecturer, professor, doctor (if we're also a medical doctor because that's the social use of the word), teacher, researcher, etc etc because that's the profession.

Hope that helps

 

[JohnM]

Of course, my sister is a dentist, having completed a Bachelor of Dental Science (BDSc), and naturally she is called a "doctor".

Why 'naturally'? This notion of calling dentists and vets Dr seems to have slowly crept in over recent years. It was never the case back in the day.

Is there some sort of formal, recognised, independent decision that has been made (outside of the dentists' and vets' associations [aka 'trade unions']) that gives true and valid credence to this? Or has it arisen simply because they mess around with live things?

 

[Rox]

That's certainly unusual in Australia. It's more common in some other places (such as the UK), but to call a BDSc 'doctor' would be out of the norm here.

Are you sure about that? My understanding and limited experience is that dentists are allowed to ( and do ) use "Dr" as long as it is clear they are not a medical practitioner, as in MBBS.

 

[wingspan]

Are you sure about that? My understanding and limited experience is that dentists are allowed to ( and do ) use "Dr" as long as it is clear they are not a medical practitioner, as in MBBS.

Oh they are absolutely allowed to - anyone is allowed to use 'Dr' in Australia. We have no restriction there. It's just not the norm.

 

[Rox]

Why 'naturally'? This notion of calling dentists and vets Dr seems to have slowly crept in over recent years. It was never the case back in the day.

Is there some sort of formal, recognised, independent decision that has been made (outside of the dentists' and vets' associations [aka 'trade unions']) that gives true and valid credence to this? Or has it arisen simply because they mess around with live things?

It has been in standard use for at least 30 years. I thought there was one, but I couldn't tell you by whom.
I assume it was an external decision as ( as i remember) the dentists and vets got the nod at the same time.

 

[ukh]

The issue of medical titles is even more confusing in Melbourne. Male surgeons get the title Mr and female surgeons may use the title Miss. So as a surgeon I went from being a Mr to a Doctor after graduating from med school, then back to a Mr after qualifying as a surgeon. My wife who is also a surgeon went from being a Miss to Dr after med school, but decided to keep her title as Dr when she became a surgeon. About half the female surgeons in Melbourne use the title Miss and the other half use Dr. None of the female surgeons use Mrs, even if they are married.
To complicate matters further, male and female surgeons in Sydney tend to use the title Dr and when I travel interstate I have to modify the title to avoid confusion.

I do not mind being called Dr or Mr by patients. I do not mind patients calling me by my first name, but I despise it when a (usually younger) patient meets me for the first time and calls me " mate".

 

[anat0l]

Why 'naturally'? This notion of calling dentists and vets Dr seems to have slowly crept in over recent years. It was never the case back in the day.

Is there some sort of formal, recognised, independent decision that has been made (outside of the dentists' and vets' associations [aka 'trade unions']) that gives true and valid credence to this? Or has it arisen simply because they mess around with live things?

I didn't know that. I've been calling dentists "Dr" since I was a munchkin, so that was my understanding. I didn't know that was unusual.

I didn't even consider veterinarians.

 

[Rox]

To complicate matters further, male and female surgeons in Sydney tend to use the title Dr and when I travel interstate I have to modify the title to avoid confusion.

.

I once put my foot royally in it with a "Mister" years ago in rural NSW. ( I was new in town) He was too polite to say anything.

I met one of his colleagues that night at a dinner, where to my horror, she explained he had been a MASH surgeon.

I sometimes wonder if any others have similarly gone under the radar.

 

[JohnM]

The issue of medical titles is even more confusing in Melbourne. Male surgeons get the title Mr and female surgeons may use the title Miss. So as a surgeon I went from being a Mr to a Doctor after graduating from med school, then back to a Mr after qualifying as a surgeon. My wife who is also a surgeon went from being a Miss to Dr after med school, but decided to keep her title as Dr when she became a surgeon. About half the female surgeons in Melbourne use the title Miss and the other half use Dr. None of the female surgeons use Mrs, even if they are married.
To complicate matters further, male and female surgeons in Sydney tend to use the title Dr and when I travel interstate I have to modify the title to avoid confusion.

I do not mind being called Dr or Mr by patients. I do not mind patients calling me by my first name, but I despise it when a (usually younger) patient meets me for the first time and calls me " mate".

Very interesting - especially the bit about female surgeons 'reverting' to 'Miss'. Must admit that's something I've never encountered or thought about - even though a late friend (I never called him 'mate' ) was a surgeon.