Do you like titles (eg Mr / Mrs / Miss / Dr / etc)?

[JohnM]

I once put my foot royally in it with a "Mister" years ago in rural NSW. ( I was new in town) He was too polite to say anything.

I met one of his colleagues that night at a dinner, where to my horror, she explained he had been a MASH surgeon.

I sometimes wonder if any others have similarly gone under the radar.

Just call 'em all 'mate' from now on and you can't go wrong, wherever you are .

 

[Rox]

The title wasn't the problem, apart from the misconception it allowed me to make. He introduced himself as Mister so I assumed he had standard minimal medical knowledge.
It was a tricky situation for unrelated reasons, but that made it even more cringeworthy.

 

[drron]

Must say I'm surprised, drron. That comment is just so disrespectful of the intelligence and capabilities of many many highly educated people.

I said this as I am often told by a PHD that I am not a real doctor.The disrespect was not mine.

 

[Programme]

That's certainly unusual in Australia. It's more common in some other places (such as the UK), but to call a BDSc 'doctor' would be out of the norm here.

Why 'naturally'? This notion of calling dentists and vets Dr seems to have slowly crept in over recent years. It was never the case back in the day.

Is there some sort of formal, recognised, independent decision that has been made (outside of the dentists' and vets' associations [aka 'trade unions']) that gives true and valid credence to this? Or has it arisen simply because they mess around with live things?

I didn't know that. I've been calling dentists "Dr" since I was a munchkin, so that was my understanding. I didn't know that was unusual.

I didn't even consider veterinarians.

The use of the title "Dr" by dentists is an honorary title in much the same way as medical practitioners. It would be very unusual for a dentist to not use the title Dr today, unless they were an oral and maxillofacial surgeon, then they would use the title Mr, as they are, well, surgeons!

I haven't been around long enough to know when this convention came into being, but an old timer dentist (working for well over 50 years, put it that way) told me that before he first started working, some dentists used the title Dr and some did not - those that did mainly having trained in the US or done further studies there. Eventually it became universal that dentists used the title Dr, and are indeed registered by our national board under that title. Don't know how much truth there is to that, and as far as anyone else I've spoken to is concerned, the honorary title of Dr has always been used by dentists.

I'm trying to look at the AQF semantics and so on and it's doing my head in. So the change by University of Sydney (as well as a slew of others, as I've quickly read up) doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Not 100% sure on the details of what is going on at the University of Sydney and too lazy to look it up to be honest, but similar name changes have occurred at the University of Melbourne. These changes are associated with a change from the traditional UK-style system of a 6 year MBBS, 3 year LLB or 5 year BDSc degree straight out of secondary school to a US-style system of a 3 year undergraduate degree followed by a 4 year MD, 3 year JD or 4 year DDS degree, which despite being called Medicinae Doctor, Juris Doctor and Doctor of Dental Surgery, are actually AQF Level 9 Masters' degrees. These graduates will not be any more or less qualified than their MBBS/LLB/BDSc predecessors and will be registered the same way with their professional registration bodies and use the same titles. I think the universities think the new titles sound cooler and make it easier to sell another few years of education!

On the 'real doctor' debate, doctor means teacher in Latin, so we should in theory be calling our teachers doctor, and medical professionals, PhDs etc should only use the title when teaching. So neither group are the real doctors!

 

[Rox]

I said this as I am often told by a PHD that I am not a real doctor.The disrespect was not mine.

Regardless of other semantic arguments about PhDs vs MbBs, I would have thought that by the time you had qualified in a medical specialty, having earned "Dr" should be beyond dispute.
Or should we divert to Fellow?

 

[drron]

Regardless of other semantic arguments about PhDs vs MbBs, I would have thought that by the time you had qualified in a medical specialty, having earned "Dr" should be beyond dispute.
Or should we divert to Fellow?

Well I believe I am a jolly good Fellow.:shock:

 

[JohnPhelan]

The issue of medical titles is even more confusing in Melbourne.

Most things are!

 

[artemis]

Regardless of other semantic arguments about PhDs vs MbBs, I would have thought that by the time you had qualified in a medical specialty, having earned "Dr" should be beyond dispute.
Or should we divert to Fellow?

Actually I hate the fact my professional surgical qualification makes me a Fellow of the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons - makes me think I'm a stuffy old white guy, balding, wearing academic robes and a yellow stole and out of touch with society. Yet another title that has an inherent gender bias.

Interestingly, when I travel in the US, despite the FRACS being the descriptor of my training here in Aus, the Americans don't care (or understand) what it is. Instead, they just want to know whether I'm an MD (which technically, I'm not - I'm MBBS). It's just easier to say yes, and describe myself as Dr Artemis, MD.

And on my VA flight yesterday, as I boarded, the FA asked me what sort of doctor I was? I wondered why she asked and she said that they all like to play guessing games about doctors - whether they are medical/vet/dentist/PhDs etc!

So there we go!

(and incidentally, I asked her to just call me by my first name, which she did )

 

[blackcat20]

On the 'real doctor' debate, doctor means teacher in Latin, so we should in theory be calling our teachers doctor, and medical professionals, PhDs etc should only use the title when teaching. So neither group are the real doctors!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I also have my DipEd. So I'm PhD that teaches

 

[BAM1748]

Having gone through an education where I needed to wear a boater to school, surname only is all that is needed. (I note this option is not available on the poll)

 

[OzEire]

Is it possible that titles are also used to help staff identify gender where it is not always clear just from the name?

For example, FA looking for a pax might find it easier if they know to look for a Mr or Ms. Of course its no help if they only have Prof, Dr or Sgt to go on.

There are lots of gender neutral names which could leave staff guessing without having a title to assist; eg. Kim, Sam, Jo, Danny, etc plus not easy to work out when looking at unfamiliar foreign names (Merpati, Yoshiko, Samina).

I will conclude this post with a note (to avoid being flamed for raising gender) to say that I can understand why airlines might retain the 'title' on BPs as an admin measure, but that I acknowledge a person's gender is not always obvious from appearances and that it shouldn't matter anyway everyone should be treated as a valued customer irrespective of their gender.

 

[Pushka]

It's curious that something achieved by studying a particular subject at University (or in the case of PhD, the level of study) gives someone a title they can use generally in life in areas not associated with their profession.

I wonder why lawyers didn't get a title to use too?

 

[wingspan]

It's curious that something achieved by studying a particular subject at University (or in the case of PhD, the level of study) gives someone a title they can use generally in life in areas not associated with their profession.

I wonder why lawyers didn't get a title to use too?

Because it's not about the profession. PhDs have various professions - in fact having a PhD is not a profession at all. If lawyers do a PhD they would use the title 'doctor'.

 

[harvyk]

I think Australia is excessively egalitarian. Titles are excellent and connote respect. I can think of nothing worse than sending children to a union-dominated public school where the teachers are addressed by first name and wear casual clothes everyday.

I went to a public school, very much so union dominated (strikes where uncommon, but they did happen), casual clothes where the norm, and from year 10 onwards we started to address some teachers by their first name, and in year 11 / 12 all teachers (except one, old school English teacher, and I can tell you, there was no respect when we called her "Mrs Surname") was address by their first name.

Respect was given not in what we called our teachers, but in how we interacted with them. Respect was given through tone of voice, through asking relevant and meaningful questions and through actually listening to what the teacher had to say.

 

[Pushka]

Because it's not about the profession. PhDs have various professions - in fact having a PhD is not a profession at all. If lawyers do a PhD they would use the title 'doctor'.

Yes. I know. That's why I said "level of education" for PhD. But that wasn't the issue.

It's why an attainment at Uni bestows upon a person a title they can use in everyday and non related life.

 

[vetrade]

I wonder why lawyers didn't get a title to use too?

It's coming, Pushka. In the US some law schools have changed the name of their LL.B to Jurum/Juris Doctor - thereby entitling recipients to call themselves "Dr".

 

[wingspan]

Yes. I know. That's why I said "level of education" for PhD. But that wasn't the issue.

It's why an attainment at Uni bestows upon a person a title they can use in everyday and non related life.

It's because we always have multiple identities. For example, if I were sitting next to someone on a plane and we started chatting, they might refer to themselves as a 'father' even if their child isn't there with them. He can still identify as such in everyday and non related life. I wouldn't say "no you're not, you're a passenger!". Or if I were sitting next to someone who was talking about her career as a baker - I wouldn't say "no, you're not - where's your hat?". Not sure if I'm missing something here but aren't we all several things at once even if we're not those things right at that moment?

It's coming, Pushka. In the US some law schools have changed the name of their LL.B to Jurum/Juris Doctor - thereby entitling recipients to call themselves "Dr".

We have J.D. degrees in Australia too - but they're not supposed to call themselves 'doctor' - although just like anyone else in Australia, there are no restrictions on using the title, they can even though they shouldn't.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Booked a flight on the snazzy new BA app this morning. Staggering array of titles to choose from

 

[anat0l]

Booked a flight on the snazzy new BA app this morning. Staggering array of titles to choose from

But for you, shouldn't it obviously be, "Her Royal Highness"?

 

[CaviAck]

I've been asked a few times on long hauls about my occupation and I'm always happy to help out in an emergency, having "Dr" on the manifest would be more helpful than not having it there I imagine.

Unless you're a dentist... Probably going to be the reason why I'd just put my title as Mr instead of the graces I've been given by society of Dr.

As for my preference on being called by a title or not really depends on the situation. If it's a customer service setting where the customer agent is addressing me for the first time I'd expect a courteous Mr Name. If they're a spruker trying to get my attention an "excuse me Sir" is expected. Otherwise in pretty much in all other circumstances I try to stick with first name basis.