Courtesy Upgrades from Australian Airlines

[gmljz]

Why is it that no Australian Airline extends the courtesy of a free, un-requested upgrade to domestic Platinum level Frequent Flyers - even when their business class section is completely un-booked and available? When I lived and traveled in the USA - United would often provide me with a business class upgrade based on my Premier Executive status.

 

[mannej]

Simply because it would mean that less people would pay for business in the expectation to be upgraded.

Neither VA or QF want to devalue their premium domestic cabin like this.

 

[TomVexille]

Welcome aboard gmijz.

I hear it does occasionally happen to WP1 members of QF. I think the general opinion is that QF and VA feel that by giving away "free" upgrades they would cheapen their J product and nobody would pay for it as a result.

 

[whughes3]

"Operational upgrades" do happen occasionally when Y is overbooked and it is a busy day; I recall getting a few of these myself. But as the above posters have noted, it is very much the exception; our airlines like to remain solvent!

 

[kermatu]

I guess sometimes it will be because they don't have enough food or drink on board for the premium level, so to move people up would risk running out. I also see some merit in the argument that free give-aways would devalue the experience for those who have paid.

But I agree it feels stingy and a total waste to have empty cabins. Isn't a great look either. And nothing devalues the J experience than to have the cabin half-filled with staff members anyway. I like the idea of looking after employees but surely give premium status passengers the business seats (even if they get economy food). It can't be that hard to organize.

 

[gmljz]

Thanks for the rapid feedback - you all revert to "airlines wanting to maintain value of J class - by not filling it with freebies' - naturally this is also what the airlines say. However, the opposite message that can be perceived as all the economy passengers (including platinum level FF) notice all these empty J-class seats during the entire flight - will simply form the opinion that they are empty because they cost too much - and this will not entice them to 'try' J-class at all. Yet, when someone sees at passengers in J-class receiving the upgraded treatment - they may well be entice to try it themselves. Who knows - I always thought that a full business class section would rive higher adoption rates.

 

[RooFlyer]

An answer can also be seen in the Nth American practice of almost guaranteed upgrades for high status flyers. They NEVER need to pay for J because they are almost certain to get an upgrade. Airline wins loyalty but loses on revenue. I'm not in the top bracket on Air Canada Aeroplan but my client never needs to buy J for me, domestically in Canada, because I do always get an upgrade (slightly different system to QF but the principle is the same).

As mentioned by others, Qantas regards its J cabin as a premium product and will fly with empty seats even when people want to 'pay' for an upgrade with points. Personally I think they stretch that principle too far, but there you go.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yet, when someone sees at passengers in J-class receiving the upgraded treatment - they may well be entice to try it themselves. Who knows - I always thought that a full business class section would rive higher adoption rates.

That's the issue - if you filled the cabin with free upgrades, there perhaps wouldn't 'be' any service to entice others to try it. If we take the US for example, meal services are few and far between, and pretty much non-existent on flights under 2-3 hours. If we applied that in Australia, that would mean the abolition of meal services on just about all east coast trunk routes.

Not forgetting that Australian aircraft still have curtains to separate the cabins... so not much to see if you are stuck in coach.

 

[serfty]

FWIW Both Qantas and Ansett used to actually do Courtesy Upgrades.

In my heavy Domestic travel days for work back in the 90's, most of my bookings were in Y or B class.

As a Qantas Gold (then top level) frequent flyer ,I found that I would regularly be upgraded - but the flights were not necessarily full. This was also happening for a couple of my work associates (also Gold).

It became so consistent that I did an analysis of all our travels and found that almost exactly one in every three Y/B flights such an upgrade would occur.

Anyway we enjoyed it for a time until Qantas sent letters out in the late 90's stating that "Courtesy Upgrades" (that's the exact term they used) would no longer be available (but rest assured we would be first on the list if an upgrade would be necessary).

So, it was a conscious decision to actually do away with "Courtesy Upgrades".

 

[dajop]

It's not just Australian carriers. Singapore Airlines/Silk Air also fiercely protect their premium cabins and minimise upgrades to only when absolutely essential. As do, I am sure, many other carriers. Some have a reputation of upgrading top tiers regularly (eg. EK, CX), as they tend to oversell economy a lot, and need the seats. But if economy is not full, no-one will get upgraded unless paying through some mechanism (eg. points).

 

[Mattg]

I understand why people might want this, but I think it devalues the business class experience too much for a couple of reasons.

Flyers with high status can game the system so they never have to pay for an upgrade. This leads to lost revenue for the airline.

But further to this, just look at airlines in the US. Premium cabins are pretty much always 100% full. I think that this makes the cabin less pleasant overall for the passengers that did pay top dollar to be there (not to the point where it's unpleasant, but more passengers equals a lower flight attendant: passenger ratio, which means each passenger receives less individual attention and there is less of a feeling of exclusivity.)

In Australia, anyone that doesn't want to pay full price for business class can upgrade with points anyway. And don't forget that Virgin do give their Platinum members 4 free annual upgrades.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

As mentioned by others, Qantas regards its J cabin as a premium product and will fly with empty seats even when people want to 'pay' for an upgrade with points. Personally I think they stretch that principle too far, but there you go.

It's definitely easier to get points upgrades confirmed than it used to be as you also have the option to 'opt-in' on the day in the case of commercial no-shows in J if your upgrade hasn't been confirmed ahead of time.

I haven't heard anyone complaining recently about a points upgrade being unsuccessful only to see empty seats in the J cabin.

 

[bsb]

Who doesn't love an upgrade, but really, if you want to fly in the pointy end, just pay for it. We get it good in Australia in Y and if you're WP, we get the best seats. I'm all for the airlines keeping their premium product just that, premium.

 

[opusman]

Haven't seen an "empty" J cabin on QF domestic for years. One or two seats at the most.

 

[harvyk]

<snip>
However, the opposite message that can be perceived as all the economy passengers (including platinum level FF) notice all these empty J-class seats during the entire flight - will simply form the opinion that they are empty because they cost too much - and this will not entice them to 'try' J-class at all.
<snip>

The vast majority of people already think J is expensive, it doesn't matter how many people are sitting in those seats when Y pax walk through.

Personally I only really mind if points upgrades are denied, and yet there are seats. Other than that I see no reason why a person whom paid for a Y ticket, should automatically get J just because there are J seats available. Don't get me wrong, when I've gotten opup's I've jumped at the chance, but it was never expected.

 

[OzEire]

Haven't seen an "empty" J cabin on QF domestic for years. One or two seats at the most.

VA1209 today (737) has one J seat occupied out of 8.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The vast majority of people already think J is expensive, it doesn't matter how many people are sitting in those seats when Y pax walk through.

And In Australia and some parts of Asia (Hong Kong SAR, Japan) I'd say that perception is absolutely correct. It's actually very expensive compared to what you get - and the price doesn't necessarily reflect the product.

While the USA and Europe have equally expensive business/first class fares for outright purchase, there is ample opportunity to get paid upgrades to those cabins for a reasonable supplement... for example BA has GBP50 upgrade options for short flights at check-in (sometimes even at time of purchase), US carriers offer instant upgrade fares, and check-in upgrades. Those options can represent vfm.

(Edited to revise - expensive fares ex HKG are generally on CX to China and Japan - you can get some good deals flying on 2nd tier airlines to say Bangkok. And for Japan domestic anyone can pay the 'Class J' supplement for around $11, or to First class for ~$100)

 

[boomy]

Haven't seen an "empty" J cabin on QF domestic for years. One or two seats at the most.

Not uncommon to see J cabins less then 50% full, mostly on midday and late evening flights.

I've also noticed QF being more generous with op-ups on international flights, even if Y or J are not full.
Don't really understand this logic as domestic upgrades cost almost nothing to the airline and there aren't many pax who will pay the inflated retailed prices like $900 for 2 hours or $1800 for 4 hours domestic flight in J.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... will pay the inflated retailed prices like $900 for 2 hours or $1800 for 4 hours domestic flight in J.

It's even worse than that! Checking QF return business class SYD-MEL for Friday 7th August... can cost as much as $1798 return (for 2 hours).

For $300 less than that you could get an economy flight return to Europe, with a minimum of 8 meals, unlimited IFE, and drinks.

 

[mannej]

It's even worse than that! Checking QF return business class SYD-MEL for Friday 7th August... can cost as much as $1798 return (for 2 hours).

For $300 less than that you could get an economy flight return to Europe, with a minimum of 8 meals, unlimited IFE, and drinks.

For this Friday though?