[Confirmed Fixed - Maybe Not!] No LHR T5 Galleries access for QP before BA/QF flights

[Moopere]

i think BA and OW's point of view is that QP is not a status, it is a paid lounge access card (which in this case BA does not have) and QF and the other carriers have to work out how the payment per visit and the access to specific lounges works. Let's hope QF and BA will be able to come to an arrangement soon.

I'm almost completely certain that status or not, entry fees are charged back to the ticketing airline. I don't believe that OWE/OWS get "free" entry ... it seems to be free from the Pax perspective, but at the back end I'm sure money is changing hands. From this perspective, being QP or not shouldn't matter, QF would get charged for entry.

 

[ozmille]

I'm almost completely certain that status or not, entry fees are charged back to the ticketing airline. I don't believe that OWE/OWS get "free" entry ... it seems to be free from the Pax perspective, but at the back end I'm sure money is changing hands. From this perspective, being QP or not shouldn't matter, QF would get charged for entry.

Offcourse I think QF will be charged for every visit but what I was pointing to is that QP is not a OW status which automatically gets access. QP is an agreement between QF and the other carrier which has nothing to do with OW.


Sent from my iPad using Aust Freq Fly app

 

[amaroo]

i think BA and OW's point of view is that QP is not a status, it is a paid lounge access card (which in this case BA does not have) and QF and the other carriers have to work out how the payment per visit and the access to specific lounges works. Let's hope QF and BA will be able to come to an arrangement soon.


Sent from my iPad using Aust Freq Fly app

Agreed - no point attributing blame at BA or others. QF need to pull their finger out and just cough up that things have changed and do exactly what Timba-Jet suggested by notifying all members not to bother doing a walk in at T5 and or anywhere else where access has changed.

It's pathetic to continue to allow members to be subjected to rejection :evil:

 

[simongr]

Granted negotiations and outcome depend on QF-BA coming to an agreement, so timing is bot within QF 100% control.

What is in QFs control is Making if clear in the interim on their website that T5 BA lounge access is not currently available plus anything else they feel is relevant about their negotiations with BA.

To date they have chosen not to do anything. Make up your own mind if this good or bad customer service.

I don't think that Qf should be releasing confidential commercial negotiations...

 

[anat0l]

I don't think that Qf should be releasing confidential commercial negotiations...

And I don't think the people here really give a rat's dirty behind about what may be tying QF down. They just want information.

 

[BD1959]

I'm almost completely certain that status or not, entry fees are charged back to the ticketing airline. I don't believe that OWE/OWS get "free" entry ... it seems to be free from the Pax perspective, but at the back end I'm sure money is changing hands. From this perspective, being QP or not shouldn't matter, QF would get charged for entry.

It would be nice if we could confirm this is the case. I looked at the public accounts for both airlines earlier in the discussion but could see nothing (though they're reported at such a high level I doubt this revenue - if it existed - would be significant).

If this *is* true and even if the hosting airline made a modest "profit" on such a transaction, surely - given the handing over of 50% of SEA/LHR traffic to BA - BA would be *encouraging* access to the Lounges. Also, when BA budgeted on the operating costs/revenue for the Galleries at T5, it would have done so on the back of *some* revenue from QP access fees.

Regards,

BD

 

[Red Roo]

I hope that when RedRoo writes, "we are still working T5 access.", that RedRoo means "worldwide Galleries access" (ie. AMS, LGW, etc .. and not just LHR T5 access). Everything seems so pernickety lately I hope we haven't lost losing sight of the rest of the Terraces that have now become Galleries in the bid to save LHR T5.

I mean AMS only got new furniture and that's now off-limits (see before/after photos):
The new Galleries Club lounge at Amsterdam Schiphol airport is now open - Page 2 - FlyerTalk Forums

Yes, this does include worldwide Galleries access.

 

[sarvowinner]

Yes, this does include worldwide Galleries access.

Thanks Red Roo, glad to hear it.

 

[docjames]

Thanks Red Roo for clarifying. Hope for a resolution soon.

 

[jojen]

It is now December 19th and still no word on what is happening. Hoping that we will know sometime this week.

jojen

 

[Kceips]

It is now December 19th and still no word on what is happening. Hoping that we will know sometime this week.

jojen

Yes, some clarification would be great. I am flying out of T5 between Xmas and New Year!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

exactly... it is peak period right now... everyone has already made their travel plans... there is no incentive for this to be concluded right now! in fact this actually saves money in a busy season when lounge access might be a little higher than usual.

perhaps when bookings slow down again and next years targets start to be made then we will see a resolution of this issue

 

[Danger]

The Senate's Rural Affairs and Transport Legislation committee is currently conducting an inquiry into the Air Navigation and Civil Aviation Amendment (Aircraft Crew) Bill 2011 and the Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011 (more information here).

A number of questions were taken on notice following the appearance by Alan Joyce at a hearing in Canberra on 4 November. Responses to those questions (and others) have been posted on the committee's website here.

The long-and-the-short of it is some interesting information has come back from Qantas on the very issue of lounge access at LHR T5.



In my opinion it is simply astounding that a seemingly straight-forward question pertaining to lounge access at LHR T3 and T5 for Qantas Club members flying QF or BA can be met with the response "commercial in confidence". Perhaps the Qantas website page relating to lounge access should be updated with the same phrase.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Unbelievable

 

[anat0l]

In my opinion it is simply astounding that a seemingly straight-forward question pertaining to lounge access at LHR T3 and T5 for Qantas Club members flying QF or BA can be met with the response "commercial in confidence". Perhaps the Qantas website page relating to lounge access should be updated with the same phrase.

Well, if the answer was the more plain "we're working on it", you'd still order all of them to be shot to pieces anyway.

Ditto any other similar response. It's all the same as we've had here - discussions going on (well, hopefully). "Commercial in confidence" basically means "we're not telling you because if we do then someone else is just going to find some other means of attacking us and not achieving anyone's goals". Half truth, albeit...


More surprised how and who tabled the question about T5 access. T3 access perhaps (because the JSA specifically relates to the Kangaroo-related routes), but T5 is only plying on the BA connection network, which must mean someone who tabled the question is either very astute (i.e. as astute as a member of this forum) and/or has a real axe to grind.

I still maintain this is all a rug pull by BA, though BAEC members are probably lapping it all up without the QP "blaggers" inside their valuable lounges.

 

[jojen]

Unbelievable

I agree.

It really is time that Qantas Club members were informed of an outcome.

jojen

 

[bcworld]

I agree.

It really is time that Qantas Club members were informed of an outcome.

jojen

As a consultant, I'm told if I don't communicate and let my customers know what I'm doing...then I'm not doing anything at all. I can see that's exactly how this situation is for QC members.

 

[Danger]

Well, if the answer was the more plain "we're working on it", you'd still order all of them to be shot to pieces anyway.

Ditto any other similar response. It's all the same as we've had here - discussions going on (well, hopefully). "Commercial in confidence" basically means "we're not telling you because if we do then someone else is just going to find some other means of attacking us and not achieving anyone's goals". Half truth, albeit...

I respectfully disagree.

Something like the following would, I think, have been far more appropriate:

2 - Commercial in confidence.

2a - In Terminal 3, Qantas Club members have [insert text from website]. In Terminal 5, Qantas Club members travelling on a QF codeshare (ie. a flight number proceeded by QF rather than BA) may access any British Airways Galleries Club (Business) lounge. Qantas Club members travelling on a BA flight number do not have lounge access.

2b - Yes. Qantas is aware of anecdotal reports that some Qantas Club members have recently encountered difficulty in accessing the British Airways Galleries lounges in T5. As a result of customer feedback, our loyalty department is in dialogue with BA. Qantas recognises the ambiguity and confusion that lounge access at LHR may create for some members and is working hard to establish a solution. This is a priority for Qantas and we have committed resources to ensure a resolution prior to the Christmas travel period.

2c - The JSA allows Qantas and British Airways to co-operate on what is commonly known as the kangaroo route, between Australia and London, via Singapore and, to a lesser extent, via Hong Kong and Bangkok. Since the JSA was established in 1998, Qantas and British Airways customers travelling the kangaroo route have experienced a smoother journey via the sharing of lounges, landing slots and ground staff.

2d - Qantas anticipates the JSA will be strengthened through even greater co-operation on the kangaroo route.

2e - The increased codeshares on British Airways between Bangkok and London and Hong Kong and London will not result in a diminished service for our passengers. Indeed, Qantas has committed $x million to upgrade its existing First lounge facility at Hong Kong and has already refurbished its Business lounge. With respect to T5 at LHR, Qantas is increasing its codeshares on BA routes meaning a more seamless travel experience for our passengers transitting at LHR for onward journeys, particularly throughout the EU.

​

Note, my suggested answers are purely speculative and have been provided just for argument's sake (eg. I've got no idea how the JSA operates). The only point I'm trying to make here is that I think a lot more information than "commerical in confidence" could have easily been provided.

 

[anat0l]

I respectfully disagree.

Something like the following would, I think, have been far more appropriate:

2 - Commercial in confidence.

2a - In Terminal 3, Qantas Club members have [insert text from website]. In Terminal 5, Qantas Club members travelling on a QF codeshare (ie. a flight number proceeded by QF rather than BA) may access any British Airways Galleries Club (Business) lounge. Qantas Club members travelling on a BA flight number do not have lounge access.

2b - Yes. Qantas is aware of anecdotal reports that some Qantas Club members have recently encountered difficulty in accessing the British Airways Galleries lounges in T5. As a result of customer feedback, our loyalty department is in dialogue with BA. Qantas recognises the ambiguity and confusion that lounge access at LHR may create for some members and is working hard to establish a solution. This is a priority for Qantas and we have committed resources to ensure a resolution prior to the Christmas travel period.

2c - The JSA allows Qantas and British Airways to co-operate on what is commonly known as the kangaroo route, between Australia and London, via Singapore and, to a lesser extent, via Hong Kong and Bangkok. Since the JSA was established in 1998, Qantas and British Airways customers travelling the kangaroo route have experienced a smoother journey via the sharing of lounges, landing slots and ground staff.

2d - Qantas anticipates the JSA will be strengthened through even greater co-operation on the kangaroo route.

2e - The increased codeshares on British Airways between Bangkok and London and Hong Kong and London will not result in a diminished service for our passengers. Indeed, Qantas has committed $x million to upgrade its existing First lounge facility at Hong Kong and has already refurbished its Business lounge. With respect to T5 at LHR, Qantas is increasing its codeshares on BA routes meaning a more seamless travel experience for our passengers transitting at LHR for onward journeys, particularly throughout the EU.

​

Note, my suggested answers are purely speculative and have been provided just for argument's sake (eg. I've got no idea how the JSA operates). The only point I'm trying to make here is that I think a lot more information than "commerical in confidence" could have easily been provided.

The "extra information" you've provided is, in fact, no new information at all.

The only benefit your response (which is mostly correct and sounds quite diplomatic) would have is for a more general populace and only "for the record", if even that. Most of the knowledge is status quo, bar perhaps the T5 access issues, which I think a large portion of the QP members do not know about (this forum isn't necessarily representative, because everyone here is switched on). This is a further issue which adds to the propensity of not eliciting the response that we wanted to hear.

At the very best, this forum would be pressing on from this information (which they all already know thoroughly) and be met with the same plain response that was originally given. In other words, no new information.

So I still maintain significant doubt that a more elaborate response (assuming that there has not been significant progress made in this case) as you purport would not mean a thing.


The sentiment from the QP member cohort seems vehement on this issue. Perhaps we need to ground the airline again to force a negotiation and a response....... after all, it "worked" for union negotiations...

 

[NM]

Danger, QF Marketing Dept should be in contact with you for the position of communications consultant!