Cabcharge & Working EFTPOS Terminals in Taxis

[anat0l]

credit card fraud taxi drivers - Google Search

You tell me

I always pay taxis with Amex and pay the surcharge as my work pays for the fares so I don't care if it's a 40% surcharge.

But I draw the line at signing a blank voucher cause his "EFTPOS is down" when he sees a nice shiny Plat Amex.

From memory it's a requirement of the taxi to have a working EFTPOS machine.

Thanks for flagging me to this.

I had a ride in a cab the other day (this is Brisbane) and the cabbie - he was from Pakistan - said the EFTPOS machine was broken and that he had to do the transaction manually.

In this case it looks like everything should turn out kosher - he meticulously filled out the entire coupon and I checked all the details were correct, including the amount charged. I also still have the receipt (counterfoil) part of the Cabcharge order with carbon paper imprint with my Amex Gold details on it. I know I was not signing a blank order and I did check all the details before I autographed. I have the taxi number as well, but as a few pages have shown it may be of little use until the bank produces the charge order with more details on it, including the cabbie's ABN.

As of this post, I'll check my statement and if nothing is there, then I'll call Amex and alert them about possible charges that appear on my statement.

I know that if I do get wrongly charged out of this then the cabbie and his buddies that perpetrated this crime will surely get more than the 11% surcharge back at them, in an unpleasant, physically violent form. :evil:


In other news, some of those stories linked in from your Google link certainly show a range of people who were hit by this type of scam, but it's also unfortunate that people confuse the issue and the perpetrator with a general, unwarranted xenophobia of people from the Indian subcontinent.

 

[lovestotravel]

Following on from the discussion in the "Amex Not Accepted or Surcharged Thread"

I mentioned the following:

Had a $150 taxi fare after a big night out and dropping various people off home. Pulled out the Amex to pay and the cabbie said hte machine is not working so he would write down the numbers on the manual form to "process later"

I signed a blank cabcharge form and staggered to bed.

Woke up a few hours later and remembered the dodgy cabbie.

Rang Amex and cancelled the card straight away, and they said nothign had been processed yet.... Saved myself $150, AND probably alot more in other stuff this guy would have purhcased using my credit card numbers.

Isn't this jumping to conclusion, and robbing the poor driver?

credit card fraud taxi drivers - Google Search

You tell me

I always pay taxis with Amex and pay the surcharge as my work pays for the fares so I don't care if it's a 40% surcharge.

But I draw the line at signing a blank voucher cause his "EFTPOS is down" when he sees a nice shiny Plat Amex.

From memory it's a requirement of the taxi to have a working EFTPOS machine.

My issue is that anyone that has my full credit card details with expiry date can basically purchase anything online and get it delivered and never be traced.

It doesn't matter to me what nationality the taxi driver is ! I have an issue with my full CC details being written down because the "EFTPOS is not working"

Taxis and hire vehicles - Taxi customer rights and responsibilities

Is the best I could find, but I do recall somewhere else reading that the taxi shouldn't be taking passengers if the EFTPOS is not working.

 

[SnowYeti]

I made complaints to the taxi company regarding this, and apparentally the terminals are checked when they start shift.

My trick around this is to always bring out an EFTPOS card. They can't do an offline EFTPOS.

So when they get the terminal out, say oh hangon I'm putting it on credit.

If they give you some cough excuse to say it's down, tell them they can do the transaction over the radio to head office. (Yes they can).

If they are being totally arrogant about it, and want to do a manual imprint, then I usually pay with cash and be done with it.

For the sake of a few reward points and/or waiting 2-3 weeks to claim money back off work, it's not worth having credit card fraud.

In the past - I've had taxis process manual imprints 8 weeks later, causing my work card not to balance.

So now if I use a cab for work, I'll pay cash if their terminal is down.

Sorry, but I do NOT trust them with my card details. And I always watch them to make sure there isn't that extra swipe on a card reader hidden near their seat.

Call me paranoid if anyone disagrees, but this has happened to my friends too many times and I don't want to be stung having to get a new card and waiting upto 3 months for the bank to reverse a charge against my name!
:shock:

 

[SnowYeti]

The other reason cabbies try to do it manually is so they can get the CC processed with their mates company, not Cabcharge or the company they hire the cab off..

That's what I heard anyway, just another way to maximise their profits. Which is dodgy !!

 

[medhead]

Basically you both have no idea what your talking about. The terminal does not have to be working at all. That is why cabcharge have a manual process. Fare evasion is a criminal offence. Basically you've stolen from a driver because you were too stupid to not sign a blank voucher. And there is no blaming the drink at all. Depending on the night 150 can represent 100% of what a driver will take home.

As for the suggestion about getting vouchers to avoid cabcharge fees. Besides why shouldn't a driver avoid the massive fees of the cabcharge monopoly? It does cost the pax any extra. Or you'd rather cabcharge make a massive profit.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but I have little tolerance for mouthing off that clearly fails to understand how the industry works.

 

[anat0l]

I do remember you medhead as having some experience with this industry given some of your posts in the past. So you are quite in place to talk about this issue.

It's a bit concerning as the Google link attached to the OP has anecdotes there unless they too are false precedent and just a beat up (and, more frighteningly, xenophobia).

Basically you've stolen from a driver because you were too stupid to not sign a blank voucher.

Signing a blank voucher sounds a lot like signing a blank cheque - both are illogical and just asking for trouble. But why was the voucher blank? Shouldn't it be all filled out with the details, you check this and you even get a copy of the counterfoil with some of the critical details on it? Surely this is automatic for a cabbie to do? I can't imagine too many cabbies that would say, "just give me your imprint, I'll write a quick receipt, then give me your autograph and I'll take care of the rest". I don't care if the pax needs to run right out of the cab to get somewhere or if they're too buggered or whatever - this is money here, and fare evasion is rife (but not usually connected to a reason such as this; it's more some hooligans who decide to do a runner or beat up cabbies then do a runner ).

I'm sure it must be in the procedure that in the case of the EFTPOS being faulty (machine hardware malfunction, telecommunications snafu) the voucher must be fully filled out and verified by the customer before being signed. Also, an imprint of the credit card is taken (with those old fashioned clicky-swipe "machines" they used for credit card transactions before the EFTPOS machine existed).

Depending on the night 150 can represent 100% of what a driver will take home.

Going slightly OT here, but that doesn't sound quite right. I thought a large cut of a fare will go to the owner of the cab (yes, it could be the driver themselves) and/or the cab licensing company.

 

[MrHyde]

This is a topic that is close to many of my experiences. I have an Amex card from work that I use quite heavily as I travel around a lot. In 2008, there were 6 charges that I had to dispute with Amex. Each one of those was for a value of between $50 - $80 and was listed as a taxi cabcharge. Each one of those was fully refunded as the taxi company could not produce a signed receipt. This was just on my card. When we look at all the cards in use in our company, there were other instances as well as in each case, it was a manual cabcharge that was being disputed.

In 2009, we instituted a company wide policy that no employee is to use the manual cabcharge. Before entering a cab, we ask the taxi driver if his EFPTOS terminal is functioning and only then choose to go in that cab. Any manual cabcharge on the Amex statements are also automatically disputed. So far this year, I've had to dispute only 2 charges. One of them was an EFTPOS transaction that I could not find a receipt for not remember why I would have used a cab on that day. It turned out that I was wrong and a signed receipt was sent to me by Amex and that charge re-instated.

From a work perspective, an additional benefit of EFTPOS is that the date showing in the statement actually matches the date of the trip. With manual cabcharge, the cab company has upto 6 months to submit it. That causes havoc with our claims systems as we suddenly see a charge 6 months later and can't re-concile it with which trip it relates to.

I've talked to a few drivers on why they prefer using the manual system. From what they've told me is that the driver gets his share of the earnings quicker through the use of the manual system than through EFTPOS. Not exactly sure how that makes a difference as I would have expected the taxi owner to wait till he gets the money from either EFTPOS or manual before the driver gets his share.

 

[oz_mark]

The other reason cabbies try to do it manually is so they can get the CC processed with their mates company, not Cabcharge or the company they hire the cab off..

It happens because generally the brokers will share a part of the 10% surchargeprice gouging that Cabcharge started. If Cabcharge process it, Cabcharge keep the whole 10%. Also, the brokers tend to pay up faster than Cabcharge.

When there's a pot of money to be had, expect people to move in on it.

The real issue for passengers is when the same transaction gets processed mutliple times (often by different brokers).

As for the terminals, in Melbourne at least, there is a requirement that a terminal be installed.

 

[Skyring]

Had a $150 taxi fare after a big night out and dropping various people off home. Pulled out the Amex to pay and the cabbie said hte machine is not working so he would write down the numbers on the manual form to "process later"

I signed a blank cabcharge form and staggered to bed.

Woke up a few hours later and remembered the dodgy cabbie.

Rang Amex and cancelled the card straight away, and they said nothign had been processed yet.... Saved myself $150, AND probably alot more in other stuff this guy would have purhcased using my credit card numbers.

This is theft, pure and simple. I'm not sure whether the cabbie was doing something dodgy or not, but $150 is a huge loss. That could well represent his entire profit for the night.

The reason Cabcharge machines are so often said not to be working is that the cabbie needs cash money to pay for gas - or food - and while he might have money coming in a few week's time from Cabcharge, it's not in his pocket right now, and he's going to need money to gas the car up and take something home to the wife. Especially if it's late at night and all he's had in his shift have been people paying with credit cards.

Once he's said the machine's not working, he's got to do something to get the money, and if the passenger says he has no cash, then the cabbie has to whip out the manual embosser, or write the details down on a voucher.

What's going to happen with that $150 is that when the details are processed, probably a week after the transaction when the cabbie hands in his vouchers and stuff - maybe longer, I've got three weeks worth of dockets sitting on my desk that I haven't entered into my spreadsheet yet, let alone handed them in - the transaction will be rejected and the cabbie is down $150, unless he makes a complaint to the police, which he probably won't.

I've stopped doing airport pickups here in Canberra because so many of them are paid with cards or vouchers, and it takes a bloody long time to get the money into my bank account. Given the chaotic state of the cab owner's administration, I have no great confidence in this anyway.

So now I work off ranks, taking people home from bars and restaurants. More people pay with cash, and there's a greater chance of tips that way too. About the only people who put a tip on a card are media people.

I'd never say that the Cabcharge machine wasn't working unless it genuinely wasn't - which happens from time to time, like maybe once or twice a year.

And I need that money NOW, to pay for the next world trip.

 

[anat0l]

Slightly OT:

TI've stopped doing airport pickups here in Canberra because so many of them are paid with cards or vouchers, and it takes a bloody long time to get the money into my bank account. Given the chaotic state of the cab owner's administration, I have no great confidence in this anyway.

So now I work off ranks, taking people home from bars and restaurants. More people pay with cash, and there's a greater chance of tips that way too. About the only people who put a tip on a card are media people.

Hmmm....that probably explains why I've never bumped into you when I'm in CBR. I almost always need a cab to get from airport to city and vv., but within the city there's no point.

Also, I'd have to switch gears (figuratively, not literally of course and no puns here ) if I ride in a cab with you because I often pay with the card, even though I know I'll be slugged 11% - a (bad) habit of not carrying a lot of cash around with me.

 

[lovestotravel]

Basically you both have no idea what your talking about. The terminal does not have to be working at all. That is why cabcharge have a manual process. Fare evasion is a criminal offence. Basically you've stolen from a driver because you were too stupid to not sign a blank voucher. And there is no blaming the drink at all. Depending on the night 150 can represent 100% of what a driver will take home.

As for the suggestion about getting vouchers to avoid cabcharge fees. Besides why shouldn't a driver avoid the massive fees of the cabcharge monopoly? It does cost the pax any extra. Or you'd rather cabcharge make a massive profit.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but I have little tolerance for mouthing off that clearly fails to understand how the industry works.

Credit card fraud is a criminal offense as well.

Too stupid to sign a blank voucher with my credit card details all over it.

Yes I MUST remember to hand across my credit card numbers, expiry date and signature to more people, more often!

Funny how that with the recent taxi audits that are happening in Victoria, a working EFTPOS machine is a requirement of passing the audit!

If a driver makes $150 a night that's not my problem, perhaps they should find a job that pays alot more

As for the fraud there was a segment on 3AW a few weeks ago and the number of callers ringing in with complaints about extra charges on their credit card after using the manual voucher in the taxi was in the hundreds. That was from people just listening to one radio station and deciding to ring up and have a whinge.

There must be thousands of people out there affected.

When I get into a taxi now, I ask if EFTPOS is working, if not I tell them where I was going (Most of the time it's a nice long trip) and then I simply get into another cab.

 

[straitman]

What has happened to this thread:?:

Posts are now out of order and it is in the Playground which I suspect is not where it started and is definitely not where it belongs:!:

lovestotravel, Where did you start this thread? Was it really in the playground:?:

 

[lovestotravel]

This is theft, pure and simple. I'm not sure whether the cabbie was doing something dodgy or not, but $150 is a huge loss. That could well represent his entire profit for the night.

The reason Cabcharge machines are so often said not to be working is that the cabbie needs cash money to pay for gas - or food - and while he might have money coming in a few week's time from Cabcharge, it's not in his pocket right now, and he's going to need money to gas the car up and take something home to the wife. Especially if it's late at night and all he's had in his shift have been people paying with credit cards.

Once he's said the machine's not working, he's got to do something to get the money, and if the passenger says he has no cash, then the cabbie has to whip out the manual embosser, or write the details down on a voucher.

So it is OKAY for a cabbie to lie so he gets money now?

I am VERY glad I did what I did now then for 2 reasons:
The cabbie and other people don't have all my credit card details
He was potentially lying to me so that he gets cash now.

Not my problem if he is short of cash. Don't like the pay/job, find another better paying job.

That's life!

 

[anat0l]

What has happened to this thread:?:

Posts are now out of order and it is in the Playground which I suspect is not where it started and is definitely not where it belongs:!:

lovestotravel, Where did you start this thread? Was it really in the playground:?:

We started it in the Amex thread. I asked for my post to be moved here because of this new thread.

But my post was timestamped earlier than when lovestotravel created this thread, hence the order of the posts (and now I've assumed the dubious mantle of the OP). I've re-reported this to the mods and hopefully something can be done (e.g. change post time, etc.).



In any case, lovestotravel, what are you going to do about the fare? You'd still have to pay it, albeit in a way which is convenient for you to know that your details will not be skimmed. Just because the cabbie lacked the procedures to your satisfaction doesn't mean your ride comes for free - this isn't a supermarket style scenario where they scan the item at the wrong price so you get it for free.

Also, I think medhead was getting at why you signed the manual form when you knew it was blank, i.e. why did you not insist that it be filled out correctly. At least that's how I eventually read what medhead said. Being groggy and tired isn't an excuse. Yes there is some onus on the cabbie as well..........

Besides, you were/are presuming that the cabbie is guilty.........


This still doesn't mean I'm not concerned about the reports of scams given by the link. But I guess my c/c details are just as risk (albeit requiring a more sophisticated kind of scammer) whenever I see the plastic passing through an EFTPOS machine swipe slot. And there have been reports of scams of that kind as well (not in cabbies - more in, say, department stores).

 

[Skyring]

Credit card fraud is a criminal offense as well.

Too stupid to sign a blank voucher with my credit card details all over it.

...

If a driver makes $150 a night that's not my problem, perhaps they should find a job that pays alot more

You have ripped the cabbie off for $150. That's a fact. You wouldn't reach across the counter at Coles and pull three pineapples out of the register, would you?

Even if you think the driver's time is worthless, the gas used for a long trip has to be paid for by someone.

Frankly, I'm disgusted.

 

[lovestotravel]

Signing a blank voucher sounds a lot like signing a blank cheque - both are illogical and just asking for trouble. But why was the voucher blank? Shouldn't it be all filled out with the details, you check this and you even get a copy of the counterfoil with some of the critical details on it?

Going slightly OT here, but that doesn't sound quite right. I thought a large cut of a fare will go to the owner of the cab (yes, it could be the driver themselves) and/or the cab licensing company.

Yep but worse than a blank cheque as having all the credit card numbers allows many more purchases to be made. At least a blank cheque is a once off purchase!

medhead decided to confuse the issue by saying that me not allowing the cabbie his $150 has deprived him of his earnings all night.

Granted the cabbie may only earn $100 a night or something, but my one fare was not going to pay for it all, it would have come from other fares as well.

 

[Skyring]

So it is OKAY for a cabbie to lie so he gets money now?

I am VERY glad I did what I did now then for 2 reasons:
The cabbie and other people don't have all my credit card details
He was potentially lying to me so that he gets cash now.

Not my problem if he is short of cash. Don't like the pay/job, find another better paying job.

That's life!

Would I lie to get money to feed my children? I wouldn't hesitate.

Whether your driver was lying or not is not the issue. Whether you thought he might rip you off if he had your credit card numbers is not the issue.

You stole $150. That's what bothers me.

 

[lovestotravel]

You have ripped the cabbie off for $150. That's a fact. You wouldn't reach across the counter at Coles and pull three pineapples out of the register, would you?

Even if you think the driver's time is worthless, the gas used for a long trip has to be paid for by someone.

Frankly, I'm disgusted.

Fact is I changed my credit cards details and stopped any potential fraud.

Cabbie shoudl fix his EFTPOS, potentially not have lied about his machine working and filled out the voucher correctly.

Well I am "disgusted" too as you say cabbies may LIE to a a customer that their machine is not working as they deseprately needs cash..

I am going to find the pot and the kettle, they are both black I think.....

 

[serfty]

Playground is certainly not the place for this thread!

 

[munitalP]

You have ripped the cabbie off for $150. That's a fact. You wouldn't reach across the counter at Coles and pull three pineapples out of the register, would you?

Even if you think the driver's time is worthless, the gas used for a long trip has to be paid for by someone.

Frankly, I'm disgusted.

I think you are right Skyring - lovestotravel is in the wrong in what he did, both signing a blank and then stopping the payment. What does not ring true to me though is the cabby (presuming hes out for fraud here which I would believe is very unlikley regardless of what God Google has said) still has the CC numbers - unless the CC gets cancelled, the supposed fraud will still take place.

The only real fraud I see here is the cancelling of the transaction and some bloke regardless of race, colour or creed is now out of pocket $150 because of some stupid paranoia which seems way off mark for reason already stated, the cabby still has the CC number.

I do hope he gets his money - lovestotravel, you have a moral reason to pay up if not a legal reason...

Mr!

:!: