Building a stronger Qantas

[connieguy]

Can you tell me is the 747 bit or the QF bit that most appeals to you? If it is stepping foot inside a QF plane (whether 330, 747 or 380 ... I don't understand your comment "Now that is all gone"??? A bit dramatic perhaps? The only place thus far announced that has "gone" is EZE, but if you need to travel home from there on QF it's only a short hop across to SCL which replaces it. Or am I missing something are the other destinations hidden in the QF announcement?

I've been flying since 1954. Done about 3 million miles. Most of my adult flying was done on 747s and on Qantas. I have been just about everywhere QF flies and have always welcomed boarding the QF flight back home, which was normally a 747.

Now QF are being shrunk to a smallish regional airline that only flies to the outer edges of the pond that surrounds Australia. I find that sad as should you being a QF LTG.

 

[DC3]

... Oh and for those simply wanting a laugh...

How funny is that? Best thing I've seen for some time. Made my day.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Now QF are being shrunk to a smallish regional airline that only flies to the outer edges of the pond that surrounds Australia. I find that sad as should you being a QF LTG.

The 'pond', well, l think you'd run into a host of problems with landing rights (trying to do internal flights in someone else's country). You only have to look as far as Canada, they are very protective of their domestic market. And then EK on the other end of the spectrum trying to take over the world.

 

[connieguy]

The 'pond', well, l think you'd run into a host of problems with landing rights (trying to do internal flights in someone else's country). You only have to look as far as Canada, they are very protective of their domestic market. And then EK on the other end of the spectrum trying to take over the world.

My point was QFi are being shrunk. To me that means less QF metal long hauls that my WP status can gain tier advantage over.

 

[goldy]

Actually, most would be complmentary. AAdvantage "Executive Platinum"¹ get complimentary space available upgrades. These are assessed before those "Platinum"² and "Gold"³ who would use 500 mile 'stickers'.

More here: Upgrades (AA) - FlyerGuide Wiki

¹ "Executive Platinum" is oneworld Emerald
² "Platinum" is oneworld Sapphire
³ "Gold" is oneworld Ruby

Thanks for the heads up, but the original "complainant" if i can call him that, was complaining about all the AA silvers being upgraded ahead of OW Emeralds. I would therefore assume AA silvers would be using these coupons/stickers and not the complimentary EXP upgrades, which they wouldnt be entitled to.

I personally have no issue with the way AA do business (ie: i dont wish to discuss the pro's and con's of their upgrade system) and think they should applauded for looking after their own members over those of their partner airlines, because to be frank, We'd be up in arms if QF upgraded an AA EXP ahead of a QF WP or SG!

 

[Pushka]

QF metal to terminate at HKG & BKK. Will need to use the BA codeshare to continue to LHR.

Remind me never to book through those two routes then. Just finalised a trip to LHR this week and almost booked through HK. I was thinking, if they changed the codeshare after you booked and the BA service on say PE is not the same as Qantas, whether you could challenge the booking through your credit card for not getting what you had booked/paid for?

 

[Red Roo]

Will QFF members get the full benefits of their status on this new Qwontarse based somewhere in Asia?

Yes, you will be able to earn frequent flyer points and status credits on the new airline and redeem these throughout the program.

 

[Berlin]

It's interesting to see how most people on here either bash their country's airline or, the other way round, start about nationalistic sentimentalities when "Qantas was still a great national icon". Baaah- I grew up in Germany and it's exactly the same with LH there and many of my British friends have the same with BA.

What the new airline in Asia is concerned, it will not only save money but also can only do good in terms of customer service in my view: Yesterday I called the QF call centre to put in an upgrade request to First for one of my upcoming Business trips which for some reason I seem to never be able to process online. The guy on the phone was the typical cranky QF staff member who had been relying a bit too long on his "secure" job with the airline, absolutely appalling (and, funny that, perfectly in line with similar old dragons on other "legacy" carriers like LH or BA). Giving some of those the boot and replacing them with warm, friendly and -hey, cheap- Thai or Malaysian crew can only do QF well from a customer experience point of view. Seriously!

 

[kezsco]

After sleeping on the announcement, I have to say that I am looking forward to the new Qantas. I think the proposed future expansion of Qantas to an Asian hub (albeit with a different brand name) with flights departing out of that hub that are able to earn SCs and FF points is a huge benefit to me. If it's in SIN or KL or anywhere else in SE Asia, then I would be stoked. If the new airline also allows redemptions of QF points ala mainstream Qantas, then even better. Who knows, perhaps this new carrier may eventually be flying into other ports in Europe that I would have a huge interest in (would love to avoid LHR and the additional time that tracking back through Europe takes).

In the long run, it may allow for daily QF flights from all major cities of AU to this hub. It may increase Asian traffic to Australia (ultimately helping Austrailan economy, not just Qantas). It should be a boon for shareholders and if there are more QF flights (QF metal or metal like Jetconnect), then it would be a good thing for existing FFers of all levels: more earning of SCs and points opportunites as well as - hopefully- redemption.

I understand that much existing concern is in the unknowns... because we don't know where this new airline would be, if we will be able to redeem, where it will fly etc... But it is a much better announcement than Qantas saying that they would cut flights across the board (BOM, HNL, NRT, etc) and only use codeshares and Jetstar from now on. Woohoo

 

[Red Roo]

As for Red Roo not answering that much here, I think he/she is tied up with what can be answered at this stage. I think everyone should give Red Roo a break, it is better than before, when there was NOBODY from QF participate in the forum.

Thanks Edison.

For everyone else........

I am following the thread and answering as many questions as possible with as much information as I currently have. If you do have a direct question for me, post it as a question and I will answer it. But while I do have quite a bit of information from the annoucements yesterday, I do not have all the minute detail and rely on other areas of Qantas to get back to me. If this is the case, I will let you know and get back to you when I have more info.

While not all the comments are complimentary :shock:, this is an open forum and we are paying attention to what you are saying and I report back the good and the bad to relevant departments.

Thanks guys.

Cheers,
Red Roo

 

[wandering_fred]

But will it be a full co-operative member of the OW alliance? ie crediting to partner alliances and allowing for partner award redemptions? And will QF codeshares on JQ ever be in that situation?

Fred

Yes, you will be able to earn frequent flyer points and status credits on the new airline and redeem these throughout the program.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Yes, you will be able to earn frequent flyer points and status credits on the new airline and redeem these throughout the program.

The big question is, 'How much 'extra' will it cost for points and SC's on-top of the base fare? I guess it will similar to the new JQ model + be a minimum of a few hundred (ie, $500+++).........


Quick Question to Red Roo.
Many of us AFF members here put forward some time ago (re;recent 'enhancements' thread) that we are sick to death of seeing JQ results pop up when searching for QF flights, on the QF website. Will this now mean that the new airline will pop up along with JQ results? Can there please, please be a box to tick that is something along the lines of - QF flights only/exclude JQ*/^......?????

 

[Pushka]

I think it's a bit rude for the airline to pretend that your flying with them where in reality your being shifted to another airline.

It reminds me of when the NAB closed the Branch next door to us, and in their letter said "For your convenience, you can now Bank at ABC." Given that ABC was an existing Branch, how on earth do they rationalise this was now convenient for me.

Red Roo,
I don't want to fly with Malaysian Airlines or British Airways. I want to fly Qantas premium services on anoverseas network. Qantas international is being reduced to a rump.

Exactly, if I wanted to fly MA or BA I would simply book with them; I dont look to book through them if I am on a Qantas webpage and travelling to an area that Qantas flies to.

 

[dajop]

Now QF are being shrunk to a smallish regional airline that only flies to the outer edges of the pond that surrounds Australia. I find that sad as should you being a QF LTG.

But my point is that you pull out a timetable from 10-15 years ago, HKG-LHR & BKK-LHR not withstanding I am struggling to find the "lost" destinations from Australia from this recent set announcements. Most of those that disappeared several years ago.

As a LTG, I am not concerned, especially if there a good options on an owned carrier in Asia (given my current geographic location I hope this is based in SIN!) and a broad range of alliance partners. Times have changed QF, and others have to adapt to the new circumstances.

For QF the main issues are LCC's, the middle eastern carriers that have the geography that allow reach to many European destinations, and lastly but not leastly the increasing range of destinations within Asia that they need to offer a service (no longer will NRT, HKG, BKK & SIN cut it). Their response seems logical, maintaining services to North America & Africa, realigning their South America services to a oneworld hub, achieving efficiencies by consolidating European services through a single hub, and dealing with Asia through a airline based there.

The Asian issue is best illustrated by India, SQ (or TG, MH etc) can much better serve India than QF can, because of the range of cities at both ends that need to served - MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL and CCU/BOM/HYD/BLR/DEL, a hub works really well, and it is probably too expensive for QF to hub within Asia, from an Australian base, as crew costs would be so much higher.

 

[ajw373]

My point was QFi are being shrunk. To me that means less QF metal long hauls that my WP status can gain tier advantage over.

Hence why they are creating their own premium airline and strengtheng ties with OneWorld partners. Welcome to 2011.

 

[theintelligent1]

QF FFers will be disadvantaged over the FFers of the onward metal FFer program.

...agreed.....if I cant access seat selection, upgrades and there are even less redemption options (on the long legs as others have mentioned) why would i continue to use/credit QFF?........many other alternatives out there which are looking better each day.....

 

[k3nnis]

If you were to switch FF programs from QFF which ones would you go to?

...agreed.....if I cant access seat selection, upgrades and there are even less redemption options (on the long legs as others have mentioned) why would i continue to use/credit QFF?........many other alternatives out there which are looking better each day.....

 

[docjames]

OK, so rather than rush in, i've given myself 24hrs to take it all in and put some thought together. Apologies for the long post. I've tried to break it up a bit.

1. SCL ve EZE - a good move IMO - shorter QF leg allowing better loadings (no weight restrictions) and feeds into LAN's extensive (and growing) network which EZE didnt. Dropping HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR is sensible to me. But I hope they continue to offer a late departure ex-MEL to LHR on QF (which means via SIN). Pleased they've kept JNB and HNL (at this stage).

2. Aircraft: The pessimist in me suspects the 787s will end up in the Asian "Premium" airline. If they intend to go ahead with 320s, that to me is not "premium" (I guess unless they fit it with something other than 3-3 economy seating or have very generous pitch). The total absence of any announcement on the 787s fuels this pessimism. The phasing out early of the 744s is ok, but the delay of the 380s is puzzling given they are constantly commenting how great the 380 is for their loads and yields and operating costs. So which is it? Also, it will now be 12 380s with F (4 class) and only 5 in 3 class - seems a bit odd to me - same fitout would be better.

3. Decentralisation - as many here point out, they havent really tacked the core issue that has cost them market share - Sydney-centricity. Why anyone flying out of BNE would go BNE-SYD-SIN-LHR-EU destination when they can go BNE-SIN-xx or BNE-SUH-xx or BNE-DXB-xx is really telling. Better options ex-BNE is vital and this is the market share being stolen - not ex-MEL or SYD. PER is another example of this - why go PER-SIN-LHR-EU when you could go PER-DXB-xx. Similarly PER-SYD-LAX-xx when you could go PER-HKG-xx directly. There's lots of examples, and the 788/789 is the right plane to decentralise this - if they can leverage their MH partenship, or better work with CX this might happen. Instead they've decided to keep funneling pax via transit points they dont want. The addition of a "hubbed" premium non-QF QF in Asia wont help this feeling. I'd like to have seen 380s out of SYD/BNE/MEL and 788s out of ADL/PER/CNS into say SIN allowing the 380s to continue to LHR/FRA and the 789s to other EU destinations. The "Premium" non-QF airline will also need to be class leading - pax in Asia will not choose QF just because it's QF - and this airline will still be seen as QF.

4. MH/BA/OW - all good moves - again as others have pointed out, the european airlines have been doing this for a decade now, one only has to look at the decline in EU airlines operating to SYD to see this. The key here will be getting the customer experience equivalent on those partners. I've noticed questions/comments already about inability to upgrade on QF codeshares - Qantas need to look at this. The customer should be happy to have chosen Qantas, even if half (2/3) of their flight to europe is on another carrier.

5. Dont sell what you cant deliver - for too long, QF have been telling us they're premium, advertisng the F lounge, the personal IFE but the reality for the majority of their domestic pax, and anyone not on the 380, is they're getting an inferior product. THis is part of what has produced the cynicism towards QF and damaged their brand - they're not delivering what they promised. Again they tell us people preferentially pay a premium to travel on the 380 and then at the last minute get switched to a 2 class 744. Not acceptable, despite all the minute disclaimers they have.

6. "The experience" - this goes to numer 5 - if i've paid a premium to be on Qantas, I dont want to feel like you're short changing me to save a couple of dollars - i've sure paid more than a few dollars premium. "Enhancing" the meals, "enhancing" to two biscuits instead of one etc etc (the list is enormous - beetroot chips anyone???!!!) IS noticed by your customers who question why they've paid the premium to fly with you.


Some of this is addressed in the latest changes, which overall are not positive for on-shore jobs, but is a step towards keeping the red roo flying (internationally at least). There's more I believe they should do, but it wont happen with AJ at the helm as all he thinks is cost.I still cant help but feel that QF argue they put the new money (fleet etc) into JQ as "that's making money" but with a new fleet, better routes etc, QFi would be making money too - probably more than JQ.

The next 5 years will possibly the most critical in QF international's history to tell whether it can survive. At least, it's going to intitially be much smaller. Hopefully post 2020 it can start to grow again, but a decade is a long time in aviation.

 

[Paddy55]

With QF1/2 being SYD-BKK-SYD in the future will their flight nos become QF0.5 and QF1.0? :mrgreen:

Seriously, having digested the news overnight there are 2 things I have concerns about:

1. Deferring the A380s to the "never never" doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do - sounds like no growth anticipated on the routes that could carry the A380s

2. The new premium airline sounds very half baked at this time. I would have thought it would have helped QF to have a "near finished" proposition to put yesterday - hub identified, name chosen, some routes to talk about... demonstrating the integration with QFi. The lack of detail doesn't even look professional.

Finally, I keep on hearing how QFi is losing $200m per annum and I don't seeing anyone challenging this, especially in the media. I've flown SYD-LAX-JFK, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-SIN, HKG-PER, etc a no of times in recent years and I just don't see spare seats. Perhaps it's SYD-EZE and HKG-LHR flying near empty that's draining the $$$. I've love to know load factors to help support the $200m figure, in the meantime I can't help wonder if the books are being "cooked" (in the nicest way), to give an outcome that justifies decisions being made.

Comments, Red Roo?

Paddy

 

[Red Roo]

Quick Question to Red Roo.
Many of us AFF members here put forward some time ago (re;recent 'enhancements' thread) that we are sick to death of seeing JQ results pop up when searching for QF flights, on the QF website. Will this now mean that the new airline will pop up along with JQ results? Can there please, please be a box to tick that is something along the lines of - QF flights only/exclude JQ*/^......?????

Good question (and suggestion). I will talk to qantas.com see if they have this planned for anytime in the future.