Baby's death sparks Jetstar policy review

[Rebekkap]

There are programs and systems in place to help people in these circumstances, I have seem them in play as someone who has been involved in a SIDs death, pinging Jetstar as lacking empathy is wrong, I note there is no mention of the loss of accommodation and it's cost?

One has to wonder why this story is published and the bias in it's writing, what do the poor folks who lost their baby gain from it?

I wasn't suggesting Jetstar was lacking empathy, I was suggesting the post which said these people shouldn't have been travelling if they couldn't afford travel insurance, and they should have coughed up the $600 bucks - because it's just small change after all - was lacking in empathy.

Yes, there is some support available, but it's not immediate - once again, $600 is not small change to many people, and if suddenly asked to cough it up (even if they're getting it back later), many people would struggle to come up with it - particularly if they've just been on holidays and so may have used up savings etc paying for the holiday.

Stories like this are published because they sell papers - I don't see a particular ulterior motive going on here.

 

[markis10]

I wasn't suggesting Jetstar was lacking empathy, I was suggesting the post which said these people shouldn't have been travelling if they couldn't afford travel insurance, and they should have coughed up the $600 bucks - because it's just small change after all - was lacking in empathy.

Yes, there is some support available, but it's not immediate - once again, $600 is not small change to many people, and if suddenly asked to cough it up (even if they're getting it back later), many people would struggle to come up with it - particularly if they've just been on holidays and so may have used up savings etc paying for the holiday..

Support is immediately available and thats my point, as someone who has been there done that, and $600 is small change compared to the cost of a funeral, again there us support immediately available for that as well. Give Sids and Kids a call in this case - great organisation and one that can help with such matters including calling JQ or another airline to provide the proof required to avoid paying up front the change fee. And there is always the government organisations as a fall back.

I believe if you cannot afford travel insurance you cannot afford to travel, but we seem to be heading to a world where we have some people who believe companies must stick to their contracts without fail or get sued, while customers should be able to vary that same contract without penalty and everyone should be taken at their word without proof, in other words a complete lack of fairness on one side.

 

[oz_mark]

Really? I've never purchased travel insurance for a domestic trip - to me, the main point of it is to make sure you don't face huge medical bills overseas.

As domestic travel insurance policy does not have the same medical coverage, it can be somewhat cheaper than international options.

 

[Rebekkap]

Support is immediately available and thats my point, as someone who has been there done that, and $600 is small change compared to the cost of a funeral, again there us support immediately available for that as well. Give Sids and Kids a call in this case - great organisation and one that can help with such matters including calling JQ or another airline to provide the proof required to avoid paying up front the change fee. And there is always the government organisations as a fall back.

I believe if you cannot afford travel insurance you cannot afford to travel, but we seem to be heading to a world where we have some people who believe companies must stick to their contracts without fail or get sued, while customers should be able to vary that same contract without penalty and everyone should be taken at their word without proof, in other words a complete lack of fairness on one side.

I never suggested that Jetstar should have acted in any way differently from the way they did act, but you don't seem to realise that you're speaking from a position of privilege - not everyone immediately knows, or can work out, where to turn to for help, and nor should grieving parents be blamed for not knowing.

$600 is not small change to many people, even if it is to you, and help with things like funeral expenses takes time to be processed.

And suggesting that a family should never be able to go on holidays, within Australia, because they can't scrape together the extra cash to buy travel insurance (for a domestic holiday - we're not talking trip to developing world, in which case I might agree with you) - you can't be serious.

It's really easy when you're in the relatively privileged position of having enough and being comfortable to judge people who have less, and say they should have done such-and-such, or they shouldn't have a holiday because they can't afford travel insurance, or whatever - I think a bit more empathy is in order.

 

[markis10]

And suggesting that a family should never be able to go on holidays, within Australia, because they can't scrape together the extra cash to buy travel insurance (for a domestic holiday - we're not talking trip to developing world, in which case I might agree with you) - you can't be serious.

It's really easy when you're in the relatively privileged position of having enough and being comfortable to judge people who have less, and say they should have done such-and-such, or they shouldn't have a holiday because they can't afford travel insurance, or whatever - I think a bit more empathy is in order.

Empathy has nothing to do with it, we are hearing a one sided story from a third party, which clearly does not give the full story, which is what most people have issue with here.

And you seem to have issue with my statement that if you cannot afford travel insurance you cannot afford travel, let me just be clear, its not my statement to begin with, just something I agree with that was published by DFAT on their smarttraveller website :

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/downloads/TravelInsurancePostcard.pdf


At the end of the day its up to the individual to make their own risk assessments, and the poor folks in this case are not out of pocket $600 because of their circumstances at the end of the day, so where is the story, there is none.

 

[Rebekkap]

Empathy has nothing to do with it, we are hearing a one sided story from a third party, which clearly does not give the full story, which is what most people have issue with here.

And you seem to have issue with my statement that if you cannot afford travel insurance you cannot afford travel, let me just be clear, its not my statement to begin with, just something I agree with that was published by DFAT on their smarttraveller website :

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/downloads/TravelInsurancePostcard.pdf


At the end of the day its up to the individual to make their own risk assessments, and the poor folks in this case are not out of pocket $600 because of their circumstances at the end of the day, so where is the story, there is none.

DFAT being the Department of FOREIGN Affairs and Trade, and the Smart Traveller website being about FOREIGN travel, this website is not actually saying that people who can't afford travel insurance DOMESTICALLY can't afford to travel.

I think I've made my point about the lack of empathy in your original post - nothing to do with Jetstar or the media and how they've behaved - so I'm going to bow out of the discussion now, because we're clearly not going to agree and I don't want to keep arguing ad nauseum.

cheers
Rebekka

 

[medhead]

I believe if you cannot afford travel insurance you cannot afford to travel, but we seem to be heading to a world where we have some people who believe companies must stick to their contracts without fail or get sued, while customers should be able to vary that same contract without penalty and everyone should be taken at their word without proof, in other words a complete lack of fairness on one side.

Wow that's a strange belief on travel insurance. Surely you realise that insurance is only risk mitigation. I can afford to buy a new airfare if I miss a domestic flight so I don't bother buying travel insurance. Does that mean I can't afford to travel? Or does it mean that I just take a risk? (Another rhetorical question: if one can't afford life insurance does that mean they can't afford to live? What if they just don't have life insurance, or medical insurance for that matter.)

Same with these people and the story basically says that jetstar would cover them if they had the required proof, basically insurance doesn't even come into play in their circumstance. The issue that I see raised is that they didn't have the money upfront. They would be claiming back from insurance after the fact anyway. Wouldn't have helped if they had insurance as they didn't have the money upfront. The story then says that Jetstar are going to review their policy in light of this type of situation. That seems sensible given their customer demographic.

As for this idea that customers should be able to vary the contract without penalty, no one has even suggested that from what I can see. The story simply says that jetstar are reviewing their system for situations where people can't afford the upfront cost. It also refers to other airlines that check directly with a doctor. Basically jetstar will wave the fees in the situation reported = no request for special treatment for these people, that is no suggestion to ignore the "contract".

so where is the story, there is none.

Where's the story?
1. It is a warning for inexperienced travelers who only fly because of the LCC model. Make sure you have cash if things go wrong.
2. Jetstar has recognized the issues for their core customer and are reviewing their systems in response to the needs of the customer. (wow a positive idea for jetstar)

I'm constantly amazed by the bias here that says every story about QF/JQ is a negative attack story.

 

[NM]

Really? I've never purchased travel insurance for a domestic trip - to me, the main point of it is to make sure you don't face huge medical bills overseas.

While Australian citizens are covered by Medicare anywhere in Australia (and some other places), travel insurance may cover many other things including:

• Lost, damaged, delayed baggage
• Costs inured due to flight delays or cancellations
• Rental car excess
• Lost or damaged personal items such as computer, camera, jewellery etc
• Medical transport back home rather than treatment at the local hospital
• Personal liability cover

and I am sure there are many other things.

See this thread to continue discussion on travel insurance for domestic travel: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....surance-australian-domestic-travel-26952.html

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I am never surprised by the unconscionable depths to which some people will stoop in the interests of gaining what is may turn out to be only a slight financial advantage. I'll have to side with OneStar in this instance.

+1
Spot on!

 

[tuppaware]

Wasn't suggesting Jetstar had done anything wrong - was responding to a particular post, which in my opinion was lacking empathy. These people had just had their baby die, and $600 is not small change to most people.

It might not be small change but I look at it this way, if $600 charge is whats eating your beef in stopping you getting back home to start the grieving process then something is wrong.

I think if I was faced with the same situation would of 'somehow' gotten the money - got home and worried about the personal matter of getting the money back later on.

 

[Rebekkap]

It might not be small change but I look at it this way, if $600 charge is whats eating your beef in stopping you getting back home to start the grieving process then something is wrong.

I think if I was faced with the same situation would of 'somehow' gotten the money - got home and worried about the personal matter of getting the money back later on.

All very well if you've got friends/family who can stump up that sort of cash, or access to credit - not everybody does.

If you're privileged enough to be in the position that you can access money "somehow", then lucky you. But you should be aware of your privilege, and that not everybody else is that lucky.

 

[tuppaware]

All very well if you've got friends/family who can stump up that sort of cash, or access to credit - not everybody does.

If you're privileged enough to be in the position that you can access money "somehow", then lucky you. But you should be aware of your privilege, and that not everybody else is that lucky.

I find it hard pressed to believe that any child raising couple doesn't know anyone (friends family etc) that they couldn't turn to. In fact I believe a member of the family flew up to help with the whole situation. And in any of those situations a lot of charitable organisations will help out.

But what I detest is how someone took an objection to the process to complain to the media whilst the baby had been dead less then a week. Thats poor form, its not the airlines fault - I admit Jet* didn't have the right processes in place but the over-victimisation of family is what I dislike.

 

[Rebekkap]

I find it hard pressed to believe that any child raising couple doesn't know anyone (friends family etc) that they couldn't turn to.

I'm sure that's very true of middle class people. Not so much if you're not.

http://www.thewtc.org/Invisibility_of_Class_Privilege.pdf

 

[nlagalle]

$600 is not small change to many people, even if it is to you, and help with things like funeral expenses takes time to be processed.

And suggesting that a family should never be able to go on holidays, within Australia, because they can't scrape together the extra cash to buy travel insurance (for a domestic holiday - we're not talking trip to developing world, in which case I might agree with you) - you can't be serious.

$600 is a price on the high side - or a yearly fee. You can get one off insurance for far less than that (in fact JQ offer it on their tickets - around $20).

However just like the JQ policy you still need to stump up the cash forst and claim it back later.

I agree that anyone who travels (be it once every 2 years or weekly) needs to have insurance. Otherwise I have claimed travel insurance on domestic trips in the past.

 

[straitman]

$600 is a price on the high side - or a yearly fee. You can get one off insurance for far less than that (in fact JQ offer it on their tickets - around $20).

However just like the JQ policy you still need to stump up the cash first and claim it back later.

I agree that anyone who travels (be it once every 2 years or weekly) needs to have insurance. Otherwise I have claimed travel insurance on domestic trips in the past.

I was going to suggest that this thread has wandered in a strange direction for a while and that heading back toward the topic would be appropriate about now.

As pointed out by nlagalle, the $600 is a red herring so let's not get bogged down by it.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Jetstar Charges Family To Change Flights After Baby Dies

My my, the reply thread on the SMH website has also been closed, 65 comments and it's shut. Have a look down the bottom, "Comments are now closed".

So, when a story doesn't go their way, they can it. What a joke of a newspaper. Can't handle any criticisms, yet if it's DJ, QF, JQ or Tiger bashing, they will let the thread run it's course. They are a bunch of clowns!

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I think the key thing here is to have someone who is close to the family but is not an immediate family member who can take charge of the situation & make the arrangements with the airline on behalf of the family.

They would need the passengers booking number so it would be handy if the family was carrying a copy of their itinerary so they could give this to the person doing the liaising.

The family are going to have more than enough on their plate emotionally without having to repeat their story over and over to various people at the airline.

This person could then obtain a copy of the police report & provide it to the airline without putting the family through any unnecessary grief in what is probably the worst time in their lives.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I think the key thing here is to have someone who is close to the family but is not an immediate family member who can take charge of the situation & make the arrangements with the airline on behalf of the family.

They would need the passengers booking number so it would be handy if the family was carrying a copy of their itinerary so they could give this to the person doing the liaising.

.

In the absence of such a person as in the tragic case above, the responsibility falls on the state authorities to provide someone to at least offer to make these arrangements for them.

 

[garyjohn951]

I feel that Jetstar has been made to look bad with this one.

I only have high regard for QF and Jetstar for their compassion in many situations. While the Black Saturday fires are well known, both airlines went out of their way for months afterwards.

Having lost family in the fires I know firsthand what both airlines did immediately following the fires and for months afterwards.

For instance in June 2009 when the funeral was held, my daughter-in-law's brother was flown from christchurch by Jetstar, upgraded, etc for a minimal fare. From memory it was the tases and charges only.

All he had to provide was a letter from the funeral people or Coroner.

 

[JohnK]

I do agree with the comments posted above that sadly there needs to be proof or there would be a free for all by people trying to scam the airline.

I agree. Unfortunately somewhere along the way we have lost our hiumanity.