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Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

Austman

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how is it not relevant?
I *think* the inquiry is hinting that it wasn't just the use of private security itself.

It was the systematic failure of the whole hotel quarantine bio-security process.

A failure that led to private security guards and many others being infected.
 
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p--and--t

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Please Explain.The Victorian Premier on 27/3 is commenting on the PM's announcement of hotel quarantine which was to start the next day.He says there will be private security helped by Victorian police and thank's the PM for his offer of ADF personnel that under oath he says he did not know about.And he knew that day Victoria would be using private security.how is it not relevant?
The inquiry was to look into why the hotel quarantine program failed.
You constantly harp on and on and on about who made the decision to use private security guards.
The inquiry found whether they were used or not was irrelevant. The whole process was stuffed as we now know.
The decision regarding using private security guards and if and when it was made has been determined to be irrelevant. Your constant going over whether Dan knew or not is irrelevant to the outcome.
Ergo your posts are irrelevant
 
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oz_mark

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I think the lack of effectiveness had/has more to do with the centralisation vs decentralisation of health workers, process and staffing levels, then whether you a Microsoft or salesforce software solution. A CRM is CRM, different brands can talk to each other, I know I've managed implementations and migrations of multiple varieties.
Then you'd know all the other non technical things that replatforming lets you do...

There must have been something lacking in how/what questions were being asked, how they liaised with the communities impacted, why they didnt leverage local knowledge etc and how they then mismanaged active cases to get out of control.
Some of it was lack of disclosure from infected people due to language issues, distrust of government etc. It was taking a number of days to build trust with some of the people.
 

lovetravellingoz

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Then you'd know all the other non technical things that replatforming lets you do...



Some of it was lack of disclosure from infected people due to language issues, distrust of government etc. It was taking a number of days to build trust with some of the people.

I think that some of second wave growing so quickly and overwhelming the contact tracing was due to a combination of factors:
  • That the first wave in Victoria had just about gone (and indeed did go) just like most of Australia. This I think made people complacent including the public as large as well as those responsible for suppressing the virus
  • Antiquated systems, and probably too many bureaucratic silos in different departments leading to miscommunications and oversights on who was doing what.
  • Lack of enough epidemiological expertise. Hence the 3 additional Deputy HO's added all with solid background in this area.
  • That the hotel quarantine leaked - Virtually all the second wave cases have been linked back to one family of 4 who returned from overseas. Without that one transmission, however it occurred (according to The Age Patient 0 was the Night Manager and nota security guard), the second wave may well only have been a second ripple. Then again lax practices may have just been waiting for a another CV19 spark.
  • That when the second wave first emerged that many of the early people people were secretive (Security Guards some of whom has been instructed to not be tested), those with language issues, distrust of government etc. and the lowly paid without access to sick leave who could not afford to not work
  • Not actually realising it was a second wave from a new source till it was well and truly established - remember that genomic sequencing was at that time 2 or 3 weeks behind when a positive test sample was taken, and that positive sample was last in occurring due to secretive nature of the particular groups that the second wave first took off in
  • Not realising it was a new strain meant that all the previous contact tracing was a dead end , and they quite possibly were looking for connections that simply were not there.
 

drron

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The inquiry was to look into why the hotel quarantine program failed.
You constantly harp on and on and on about who made the decision to use private security guards.
The inquiry found whether they were used or not was irrelevant. The whole process was stuffed as we now know.
The decision regarding using private security guards and if and when it was made has been determined to be irrelevant. Your constant going over whether Dan knew or not is irrelevant to the outcome.
Ergo your posts are irrelevant
Well you haven't been paying attention to what i have been saying.I have criticised the hotel quarantine but have focussed more on the failure of Victoria's contact tracing.If that had worked properly then the failures of hotel quarantine would not have caused so much trouble.I keep pointing out the reasons Taiwan has been so successful is because of their effective quarantine and their excellent contact tracing.The 2 go hand in hand.

I did point out that in the 2009 Swine flu epidemic Victoria was the only State where their contact tracing was overwhelmed so they stopped testing for it.Now in 2020 Victoria is again the only State where their contact tracing was overwhelmed.Of course I was told that was irrelevant as well.

I am surprised that people don't seem to care that a politician seems to been spare with the truth when under oath and maybe has misled Parliament.
 
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dajop

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Now the Victorian government under fire for not doing daily individual checks to verify that each quarantined person needed to "remain in detention". They only checked the lists of people daily, to check they hadn't stayed 14 days ...


“The daily reviews were done en masse by simply looking at where in the 14-day period a person sat,” Mr Ihle said. “It is clear that the daily reviews were not conducted in accordance with the advice the department received.”
So perhaps DHHS staff who weren't otherwise that busy ( :rolleyes:) should have been calling each quarantined person each day to check through mental telepathy that the person wasn't asymptomatically carrying the virus. [\sarcasm]

edited to clarify
 
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DC3

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Daily checks by authorities? Why not hourly, or every few minutes? 🤣

And what about putting some onus onto those travellers who instead of doing the right thing, focused on how to abuse the system, potentially putting others at risk?

Regardless of the system that was put in place, there are those travellers who had no moral conscience.
 

p--and--t

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Now the Victorian government under fire for not doing daily individual checks to ensure that each quarantined person needed to stay in quarantine. They only checked the lists of people daily, to check they hadn't stayed 14 days ...




So perhaps DHHS staff who weren't otherwise that busy ( :rolleyes:) should have been calling each quarantined person each day to check through mental telepathy that the person wasn't asymptomatically carrying the virus. [\sarcasm]

Maybe I assumed it in my mind, but I thought that was evident back just after the second wave started?
 

p--and--t

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Daily checks by authorities? Why not hourly, or every few minutes? 🤣

And what about putting some onus onto those travellers who instead of doing the right thing, focused on how to abuse the system, potentially putting others at risk?

Regardless of the system that was put in place, there are those travellers who had no moral conscience.
I agree it "shouldn't" be necessary, but it has been found to be necessary in other places like Singapore hasn't it?

I saw a daily blog from a native Singaporean who returned home from Australia and he was called randomly twice per day and had to turn on video chat to prove where he was and what he was doing.

I guess many Aussies would be offended if that was done to them, but the lessons learned are there is a percentage who will ignore both what they were instructed to do and what was the right thing to do.
 

dajop

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I saw a daily blog from a native Singaporean who returned home from Australia and he was called randomly twice per day and had to turn on video chat to prove where he was and what he was doing.
Not a native Singaporean, but I can validate that comment. During our two weeks in hotel quarantine in Singapore, 2x daily video chat, 3x daily SMS where you had to enable location services and reply with your location, and every second day a knock on the door from ICA (Immigration & Checkpoints Authority). Not perfect (eg location services might not be exact), but still you know they're watching you.
 
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dajop

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Daily checks by authorities? Why not hourly, or every few minutes? 🤣
I think you missed the point. The actual comment in the article wasn't about daily checks to see if people were where they were supposed to be, but a daily wellbeing check to see if they "needed to remain under detention" (ie. to check if there health condition was sufficiently well to leave). But the whole point of 14 days quarantine is around incubation periods and asymptomatic carriers, so irrespective of whether they were 100% well or not, they needed to remain there. It would seem pointless to do daily checks when the virology indicated the need to stay the 14 days.
 

Flashback

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Not a native Singaporean, but I can validate that comment. During our two weeks in hotel quarantine in Singapore, 2x daily video chat, 3x daily SMS where you had to enable location services and reply with your location, and every second day a knock on the door from ICA (Immigration & Checkpoints Authority). Not perfect (eg location services might not be exact), but still you know they're watching you.
I'm nearing the end of my self-isolation (2 weeks) after having arrived back from Mallorca (Spain), I'm yet to receive a single call or SMS. Go UK!
 

dajop

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I'm nearing the end of my self-isolation (2 weeks) after having arrived back from Mallorca (Spain), I'm yet to receive a single call or SMS. Go UK!
Same as my experience self isolating in regional Victoria (late March, early April).
 

lovetravellingoz

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Now the Victorian government under fire for not doing daily individual checks to ensure that each quarantined person needed to stay in quarantine. They only checked the lists of people daily, to check they hadn't stayed 14 days ...




So perhaps DHHS staff who weren't otherwise that busy ( :rolleyes:) should have been calling each quarantined person each day to check through mental telepathy that the person wasn't asymptomatically carrying the virus. [\sarcasm]



“Having come from New Zealand at a time when the country had basically eradicated the virus, I didn't pose a credible risk, let alone a serious risk to public health, and I resented being in a seeding ground for the virus,” Mr Enright said on Tuesday.

Interesting that Mr Enright is so offended that he was considered a possible risk as he had come from NZ, and yet in early August a second wave was out and about in NZ long enough that several branches of people had been infected in multiple regions suggesting that it had been active for at least a little while, and that furthermore no one has any precise knowledge of when, or how, it had entered the country. Maybe Mr Enright as such as expert on how to tell when advise the NZ Authorities as to when the NZ Second Wave actually came into being.
 

lovetravellingoz

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Well a person deported from Australia to NZ has attempted to break out of quarantine on Day 12. One would have thought that he could have waited out the extra 2 days required....

I have no knowledge whether or not it was Mr Enright ;)

Covid 19 coronavirus: Quarantine hotel guest's attempted escape using bedsheet rope


 

lovetravellingoz

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And Victoria's drop in cases has led to WA softening its border entry requirements a little.. and for NSW a lot.


"From Monday, October 5, people who have travelled from Victoria will no longer need to quarantine in a hotel facility as long as they have an appropriate premise to quarantine in safely," Mr McGowan said.

"These people will be able to self-quarantine for 14 days at a suitable premise."

Victorians or people from Victoria will be tested on arrival in to Perth and again on day 11 of their 14-day quarantine.

From the same date, New South Wales travellers will be subject to the same conditions of entry as all other non-Victorian visitors to Western Australia.
"This is a positive step forward for our nation," Mr McGowan said.




 

Pushka

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Regardless of the system that was put in place, there are those travellers who had no moral conscience.
Our entire legal system is based on the fact that people will do the "wrong" thing. For a multitude of reasons. Moral conscience doesn't come into it.

I understand in SA that daily calls were made to check on everyone's physical and mental health and if there were any issues. Tested twice before departure. Positives were isolated in different rooms unless sick then off to hospital. However, we were never overwhelmed with people at any time unlike NSW and Victoria. One state managed it much better than the other obviously.
 

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