Australian Aviation article

[nlagalle]

Driving is hardly like flying a plane. you have to constantly pay attention! (driving is a lot harder!!)

Pu Koh, but as you don't have a Pilots Licence how would you even know what one is harder. As a holder of a PPL and a HR Truck licence, I can say without a doubt flying is a lot harder! I suggest unless you have had first hand experience at both, don't make foolish comments.

 

[awilcockson]

I've done the 10 hour drive Sydney-Brisbane many many times. I can tell you that I was never as mentally fatigued after one of these drives as I was after a 3 hour cross country nav, and that was with only me in the coughpit and without then added stress of having 200+ lives in my hands.

 

[Robert K]

I wasn't completely serious when I said driving was harder than flying.

But I would've thought driving a car for 9 hour would be a lot more fatiguing then flying 9 hours. Just because there's so much more happening around you when driving and you have to be a lot more alert. One little distraction and you hit something or run off the road

 

[anat0l]

I wasn't completely serious when I said driving was harder than flying.

It would stand to some reason if you had been wiser and conceded your facetious attitude in the first place.

But I would've thought driving a car for 9 hour would be a lot more fatiguing then flying 9 hours.

Either you haven't tried both activities to give a fair comparison, or you are seriously being overpatronising to a non-trivial profession.... in fact, insulting. Getting a message yet? :evil: Or do you and Alan Joyce share some DNA:?:

Just because there's so much more happening around you when driving and you have to be a lot more alert. One little distraction and you hit something or run off the road

Are you seriously suggesting that on a 9 hour flight most of it would be dead activity that could not possibly be compared to driving a car for 9 hours?

One false move on a plane and not only do you risk your own life but the lives of over 200 people! And management of a plane not only involves checking what's happening outside, it involves monitoring a whole bunch of systems inside the plane itself. Most people driving would be lucky to monitor their fuel, their speedometer and hopefully their rear view mirror.

What about managing turbulence? What happens if a system or fixture on the plane malfunctions? What about coordinating with various ATC for flight path clearances, weather reports and avoiding other aircraft in the air? Do you think that these important functions don't require an iota of concentration?

The fact that a plane is a complex machine is why they dictate there should always be two active, skilled persons managing it at a time. And hopefully a few rotating pilots that can take over these roles throughout the flight. After all, unlike driving a car it's not like you can just pull to the side of the road when you're tired, lock the doors, recline your seat and nod off a bit. Nor can you just pull up to the nearest petrol station, get out, stretch your legs and have a cup of coffee. In the air, it's very different, a more difficult environment and much more mission critical that no mistakes occur.

In the end, both activities (driving a car and piloting an aircraft) for 9 hours would be fatiguing. But to liken the complexity of operating a car to that of an aircraft, or saying that the complexity of the former is greater than the latter, is folly and insulting. So I would suggest to you to cease with your ridiculous analogy and / or comparison.

 

[nlagalle]

I wasn't completely serious when I said driving was harder than flying.

But I would've thought driving a car for 9 hour would be a lot more fatiguing then flying 9 hours. Just because there's so much more happening around you when driving and you have to be a lot more alert. One little distraction and you hit something or run off the road

wrong again... 9 hours of driving is nothing on 9 hours of flying... one little distraction flying and you crash too. more happens flying than driving. I know from doing the two!

 

[Simo]

Fatigue is an issue in many occupations...I struggle with the thought that a pilot rolls his jacket up and sleeps on the floor.A few weeks ago when traveling from DRW to SIN on jet* the pilot come out of the coughpit and had a chat to the fa's for a few minutes.

 

[oz_mark]

Fatigue is an issue in many occupations...I struggle with the thought that a pilot rolls his jacket up and sleeps on the floor.A few weeks ago when traveling from DRW to SIN on jet* the pilot come out of the coughpit and had a chat to the fa's for a few minutes.

It is not unusual to see the captain or F/O leave the coughpit, usually for the call of nature, but sometimes they do seem to just come out for a chat.

 

[Robert K]

It would stand to some reason if you had been wiser and conceded your facetious attitude in the first place.



Either you haven't tried both activities to give a fair comparison, or you are seriously being overpatronising to a non-trivial profession.... in fact, insulting. Getting a message yet? :evil: Or do you and Alan Joyce share some DNA:?:



Are you seriously suggesting that on a 9 hour flight most of it would be dead activity that could not possibly be compared to driving a car for 9 hours?

One false move on a plane and not only do you risk your own life but the lives of over 200 people! And management of a plane not only involves checking what's happening outside, it involves monitoring a whole bunch of systems inside the plane itself. Most people driving would be lucky to monitor their fuel, their speedometer and hopefully their rear view mirror.

What about managing turbulence? What happens if a system or fixture on the plane malfunctions? What about coordinating with various ATC for flight path clearances, weather reports and avoiding other aircraft in the air? Do you think that these important functions don't require an iota of concentration?

The fact that a plane is a complex machine is why they dictate there should always be two active, skilled persons managing it at a time. And hopefully a few rotating pilots that can take over these roles throughout the flight. After all, unlike driving a car it's not like you can just pull to the side of the road when you're tired, lock the doors, recline your seat and nod off a bit. Nor can you just pull up to the nearest petrol station, get out, stretch your legs and have a cup of coffee. In the air, it's very different, a more difficult environment and much more mission critical that no mistakes occur.

In the end, both activities (driving a car and piloting an aircraft) for 9 hours would be fatiguing. But to liken the complexity of operating a car to that of an aircraft, or saying that the complexity of the former is greater than the latter, is folly and insulting. So I would suggest to you to cease with your ridiculous analogy and / or comparison.

You forgot they the also have to complain about the flight attendants.

Likening flying a plane with driving a car was not my original point but I concede. You win.

 

[loobloke]

---

Fatigue is an issue in many occupations...I struggle with the thought that a pilot rolls his jacket up and sleeps on the floor.A few weeks ago when traveling from DRW to SIN on jet* the pilot come out of the coughpit and had a chat to the fa's for a few minutes.

Of course, anyone in the workforce would know this ..

However a pilot is directly responsible for the lives of many.

They are required to make on the spot decisions and adapt to difficult decisions in a life or death scenario, in the office you would not find anything remotely close.
They are working in a completely different environment, and one that is much more punishing on their body.

A pilot should not be hindered by fatigue when carrying out their duties, the pilots and the airlines have a responsibility to the traveling public of safety.

Airlines should have policies in place to combat this issue, and the comparison here is made between two airlines of the same company, both with stark differences on their approach to fatigue.

Also, maybe the mods could add something about fatigue into the title of the thread since all the conversion is about it now

---
Slightly OT,
Does anyone know how DJ organize their Pacific Blue flights in terms of shifts?

JQ have pilots do a return PER to SIN trip in one shift (over 12 hours)
DJ's PER to HKT, SYD to DPS are of similar flight times, but does DJ rotate the pilots over in DPS and HKT or have them do the return as well.

 

[thewinchester]

Driving is hardly like flying a plane. you have to constantly pay attention! (driving is a lot harder!!)

Body clock out of sync is a cow, but it has always been a part of the job.

Would be interesting to know what pilots want done about it. Have 3 pilots and a cot on very flight? Would they be willing to take a pay cut so JQ can hire an extra pilot?

But if there are 2 pilots, don't they take turns taking naps anyway?

::

You don't need to be a pilot to understand just how hard the job is. Be an intelligent, inquisitive pax, or just watch a handful of Air Crash Investigations if you're lazy to see the intelligence, skill and workload required to make sure the flight is as smooth as possible for pax up the back.

Sure, one wrong move in either mode of transport can lead to a disaster. The key difference is that when it comes to air travel, every possible step is taken to ensure that the plane is as safe on the journey today as it is tomorrow - and when things do go wrong it has the potential to destroy many more than just one or two lives. Aviation safety failures can and do kill companies, entire communities, businesses large and small.

Certification, recertification, training, testing, revision, new procedures, training on new aircraft types, ever developing policy and practice, information changes on a minute by minute basis, understanding weather, medical evaluations - yet you still suggest driving is harder than flying?? Oh how wrong you are.

If the same level of rigour was applied to the driving public, there'd be a whole lot less traffic jams in my view.

 

[dk4]

There are obviously at least two sides to this issue...

With all the usual suspects on AFF throwing their weight behind the union.

 

[anat0l]

There are obviously at least two sides to this issue...

With all the usual suspects on AFF throwing their weight behind the union.

Frankly I wouldn't be the fastest person to rush to the union's defence by the long shot of a mile, but I honestly ask every person at Qantas then, will the real truth tellers please stand up:?:


In any case, my bone of contention was with another forum member's rather idiotic claim on the complexity of operating an aircraft to that of a car and the trivialisation of the fatiguing effects. It was not supposed to delve into the current arguments between the unions and Qantas management.

 

[straitman]

There are obviously at least two sides to this issue...

With all the usual suspects on AFF throwing their weight behind the union.

At 6ft 1 in tall I'm about 2ft short for that one.