Air France passenger jet drops off radar

[Major]

It should be noted that the Technical malfuntion came first. The pitot tubes froze causing incorrect and inconsistent speed indications.

It was the actions of the flight crew to these indications that led to the final outcome

 

[Berlin]

Such a scary incident. And while I like the hilarious idea of blaming a sex scandal (what else could you come up with the French? ), the real issue will be as much cover up as the French can do. At fault here are quite obviously Air France for not replacing those (proudly French!) pitots AND not properly training their pilots and, to a lesser degree, maybe Airbus. A lot of French pride on the line here...

 

[serfty]

It should be noted that the Technical malfuntion came first. The pitot tubes froze causing incorrect and inconsistent speed indications.

It was the actions of the flight crew to these indications that led to the final outcome

both actions ... and inactions ...

I wonder where this would all be if they had not found the FDR's?

 

[jb747]

It should be noted that the Technical malfuntion came first. The pitot tubes froze causing incorrect and inconsistent speed indications.

It was the actions of the flight crew to these indications that led to the final outcome

It would appear that the newspaper article was written in advance of the report. It is due out today, but as best I can tell, isn't yet.

I expect this will be a white wash. The accident was a result of some appalling flying. The aircraft failures should have been little more than annoyances.

The items that I expect will be glossed over relate to the lack of control interconnects in the Airbus (you simply don't know what the other pilot is doing), and the effect that Airbus, and their claims regarding their aircraft being so easy to fly that the pilot body can be dumbed down (i.e. get cheap barely trained ones), are having on collective pilot skills.

The upshot is that in some ways an AB is easy to fly....up until the slightest thing goes wrong, at which point they become much harder to fly than traditional aircraft.

I expect that the list of aircraft that suffered either this particular failure, or ones similar to it, is extremely long, and would be added to monthly. Normally they are handled and simply made to go away.

 

[tgh]

Pretty discouraging summary from such an August contributor.

 

[Berlin]

The final report is out but nothing surprising in there, really:
Rio-Paris Air France crash report calls for tougher rules and training - FRANCE - BRAZIL - FRANCE 24

I guess the best thing one can do is to avoid Air France at all cost- I for my part have already had two instances where I've been proposed to fly Air France and have politely and firmly declined that offer, flying a different airline instead. Both were in J so hopefully it hurts

 

[fewings85]

I guess the best thing one can do is to avoid Air France at all cost- I for my part have already had two instances where I've been proposed to fly Air France and have politely and firmly declined that offer, flying a different airline instead. Both were in J so hopefully it hurts

i would have to agree with you there, will be avoiding them. just wouldnt feel comfortable.

 

[jb747]

i would have to agree with you there, will be avoiding them. just wouldnt feel comfortable.

Actually I'd have thought that AF are the most likely to have taken the lessons to heart. I'd be avoiding the ones that think a couple of hundred hours is an appropriate amount for the RHS.

 

[Moody]

So a predictable report based on information that has been available for months, with predictable reponses from AF and the pilots' rep.

We already know that the pitot tubes have been upgraded, and AF will be training their pilots to actually fly the plane (if they can be believed), but will AB do anything about the control mechanisms and indicators? Perhaps "Get this idiot away from me!" should be one of the new messages.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Who's watching 60 minutes tonight? Quite an interesting story about the flight.

 

[Inver]

Who's watching 60 minutes tonight? Quite an interesting story about the flight.

Yes I'm watching it now.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

It's very chilling to hear this story and how preventable it was had the tech crew reacted appropriately.

 

[Paddy55]

It's very chilling to hear this story and how preventable it was had the tech crew reacted appropriately.

V Chilling.

 

[Sprucegoose]

It's very chilling to hear this story and how preventable it was had the tech crew reacted appropriately.

I always avoid air France. They don't train their crews for stalls. Arrogance or stupidity?

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Yes basic pilot training is to push forward not pull back on the elevator controls. ..

Seems the captain finally worked out the problem at about 4000 ft

 

[QF WP]

So the court case has just begun. I woonder how AF and Airbus think they'll not pay any damages? Yes, the majority of the issue m may have been pilot error...

Airbus and Air France go on trial on manslaughter charges Monday over the crash of a Rio-Paris flight in 2009 that plunged into the Atlantic amid thunderstorms, killing all 228 people aboard and leading to changes in air safety regulations

Families of crash victims rain wrath on Airbus, Air France

Distraught families whose loved ones died in Air France’s worst-ever crash have shouted down the CEOs of the airline and of planemaker Airbus as the two companies go on trial on manslaughter charges in Paris over the 2009 crash.

apnews.com

 

[TonyHancock]

Given the way the flight crew handled this and the subsequent Air France denials of responsibility I will continue to keep my distance from Air France.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So the court case has just begun. I woonder how AF and Airbus think they'll not pay any damages? Yes, the majority of the issue m may have been pilot error...

Airbus and Air France go on trial on manslaughter charges Monday over the crash of a Rio-Paris flight in 2009 that plunged into the Atlantic amid thunderstorms, killing all 228 people aboard and leading to changes in air safety regulations

Families of crash victims rain wrath on Airbus, Air France

Distraught families whose loved ones died in Air France’s worst-ever crash have shouted down the CEOs of the airline and of planemaker Airbus as the two companies go on trial on manslaughter charges in Paris over the 2009 crash.

apnews.com

They have already paid the damages. This is the criminal trial. The penalties of a guilty verdict in that are tiny, and doesn’t affect the payouts already made to the families.

 

[muppet]

They have already paid the damages. This is the criminal trial. The penalties of a guilty verdict in that are tiny, and doesn’t affect the payouts already made to the families.

I read that it was only $126k Euro per person - seems crazy low.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I read that it was only $126k Euro per person - seems crazy low.

That would be the strict liability, without anyone proving any wrongdoing. If there was negligence the liability is not capped.