787 fleet emergency landings and now grounded following battery fires

[oz_mark]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

I highly doubt the 787's will be back in commercial service for months!

I highly doubt that Jetstar will be getting their first in August!

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

I highly doubt that Jetstar will be getting their first in August!

Depends what the fix is and how involved it is etc but I doubt that too

 

[codash1099]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

The batteries are going to need a redesign and then will have to be certified safe.
See Japan probe finds signs of thermal runaway, short-circuit in ANA 787 battery

Boeing has made a request to the FAA to test fly the 787
FAA may soon allow Boeing 787 test flights | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times

All going to take some time.

The Seattle Times has an interesting link to a 787 Timeline on that page. Doesn't make Boeing look good at all.

 

[Blackbird]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

Going to take months for the 787 to carry paying passengers again.

Boeing Tells Customers To Expect 787 Delivery Delays

the 787 grounding is likely going to be a matter of several, if not many months, rather than a short-term issue that can be resolved quickly. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) had indicated that it will take weeks until the root causes of thermal runaway in a lithium-ion battery on board a Japan Airlines aircraft in January have been identified.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

Reports suggesting faulty wiring in the Japanese case:

According to the AP, the Transport Safety Board’s report said “the battery of the aircraft's auxiliary power unit was incorrectly connected to the main battery that overheated, although a protective valve would have prevented power from the APU from doing damage.”

Japan traces Boeing 787 problem to improper wiring, report says - latimes.com

 

[straitman]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

A glimmer of good news from Boeing.

Boeing To Present 787 Fix Proposal To FAA


By Guy Norris [email protected]
Source: AWIN First

​

February 20, 2013

A Boeing team led by Commercial Airplanes President Ray Conner is set to present details of its proposed near-term solution to the 787 battery issues to the FAA later this week, possibly as early as Feb. 21.

According to airline sources, Conner will present details of the manufacturers’ revised battery system directly to FAA Administrator Michael Huerta in Washington D.C. If the plans are accepted then Boeing is understood to have provisional plans in place to begin flight testing the modified system immediately, and for fleet-wide retrofit action which would enable the first 787 to return to service as early as mid-March.

However, given the high-profile nature of the battery probe, and the subsequent review of the FAA’s oversight in connection with the original certification of the 787, it is far from clear if the agency will even consider Boeing’s request until the National Transportation Safety Board has completed its investigation. The NTSB, and its Japanese counterpart, the JTSB, are still evaluating the root cause of multiple battery failures in early January which prompted a worldwide grounding of the 787 on Jan. 16.

 

[straitman]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

Boeing Pushes For FAA Green Light On 787 Plan


By Guy Norris [email protected]
Source: AWIN First

February 21, 2013
Credit: Joe Walker
As new Boeing 787s continue to stack up at Everett and others remain idle around the world, the airframer’s battery crisis is finally coming to a head as the FAA decides on whether to approve a company plan to return the aircraft to the skies.

If the FAA says yes, airline sources tell Aviation Week that the first 787s could begin operating again with an interim battery system modification as early as the third week of March.

If it says no to the near-term proposal, then Boeing faces the far more painful and expensive alternative of developing and certifying a longer-term fix while the fleet remains grounded.

There are no easy decisions facing FAA Administrator Michael Huerta, who is scheduled to hear Boeing’s proposal from a delegation led by Commercial Airplanes President Ray Conner on Feb. 22. This marks the 38th day since the agency grounded the 787, one more day than the McDonnell Douglas DC-10 grounding in 1979.

The FAA response, which is not expected until Feb. 25 at the earliest, and perhaps not for several days beyond that, also requires approval from Ray LaHood, the U.S. transportation secretary. LaHood earlier raised the bar on conditions for a 787 reprieve by saying the aircraft will not return to service until authorities are “1,000% sure” it is safe.

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

Interesting information about the Boeing 787 program -

Boeing eyes new rate increase in tandem with 787-10X launch

As the proposed 320-seat version of the 787-10X nears a formal launch, Cowen & Co. analyst Cai von Rumohr asked McNerney on the earnings call how Boeing could offer delivery slots for a new 787 variant without stepping up the monthly production rate to at least 12 aircraft per month.....

Boeing still expects to start making a profit on each 787 in about two years and to break even after delivering about 1,100 aircraft.

Good to hear that the 787-10X is progressing towards a formal launch.

Interesting to hear that the program break even point is 1100 units !!!

 

[Awesom Andy]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

Interesting to hear that the program break even point is 1100 units !!!

That's a scary number, given that neither the 767 or the A330 have made it to 1100 units.

 

[Mal]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

That's a scary number, given that neither the 767 or the A330 have made it to 1100 units.

There is research done for the 787 which will flow into later planes, I'm not sure that spare parts profit is Factored into that break even etc.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

That's a scary number, given that neither the 767 or the A330 have made it to 1100 units.

One assumes it is a bigger number than what was originally intended.

 

[markis10]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

Interesting information about the Boeing 787 program -

Boeing eyes new rate increase in tandem with 787-10X launch

As the proposed 320-seat version of the 787-10X nears a formal launch, Cowen & Co. analyst Cai von Rumohr asked McNerney on the earnings call how Boeing could offer delivery slots for a new 787 variant without stepping up the monthly production rate to at least 12 aircraft per month.....

Boeing still expects to start making a profit on each 787 in about two years and to break even after delivering about 1,100 aircraft.

Good to hear that the 787-10X is progressing towards a formal launch.

Interesting to hear that the program break even point is 1100 units !!!

I always thought the break even mark came before profit??? Is there some Australian Budget maths in there???

Good to see deliveries are back on and Boeing expects to deliver all aircraft promised this year by year end.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: ANA grounds 787 fleet following latest emergency landing

I always thought the break even mark came before profit??? Is there some Australian Budget maths in there???

It's all in the way the words are spun. Each aircraft becomes profitable and then you get to the program breaking even....

 

[vitagen]

They will make profit for each unit, but the profit will offset the massive R&D cost... so I guess the breakeven cost for the programme will be after the 1,100 units.

 

[docjames]

Profit on the individual airframe vs profit (break even) on the whole program.

1100 units to break even is a pretty good (bad) sign of the cost over-run (and no doubt assumes no further cost over-runs!).

 

[markis10]

Profit on the individual airframe vs profit (break even) on the whole program.

1100 units to break even is a pretty good (bad) sign of the cost over-run (and no doubt assumes no further cost over-runs!).

Interesting the different interpretations, AFAIK the 1100 unit program break even was a 2011 figure, it does not take an accountant to work out thats likely to have changed, and the actual CFO quote was that they would reach break even point in two years!