10,000 bonus points per 20 transactions

[milesandmore]

I signed on the 17th. So QANTAS Amex users are still IN, if they signed up before the 19th, but OUT if they signed up after (as beeing excluded in the new TC)?

 

[deluxeflyer]

Now is this a CSA who knows what they are talking about, or one who is making up more stuff (ala other CSA's who are confused)?

"Fraud" is a very strong word to be flicking around. Amex better be pretty sure what they are doing.

Who knows if this CSA is correct.
Who really knows what is happening.
Everything is still ambiguous....

I guess from Amex's point of view "fraud" is akin to abuse.

I know, I know, we are going round in circles again. Sigh.
Amex should post an FAQ section on their website to answer all our questions, after reading through all 1400 or so posts here.

Anyone feel like drafting an FAQ section for Amex which we can send it as a group petition?

 

[straitman]

I guess from Amex's point of view "fraud" is akin to abuse.

Was the use of the word 'fraud' actually from AMEX or from the CSR :?:

 

[beardoc]

Conversely people may now hold onto the points and transfer to KrisFlyer which may in fact cost Amex more...

I don't have the T&Cs of MR in front of me, but there's a clause in there that says that the fact that Amex doesn't enforce a condition or term does not constitute a waiver of that term or condition.

So again, they are quite within their rights under the T&Cs.

 

[beardoc]

It's slightly ambiguous in previous posts, but is it correct that currently there are no transactions recorded in the MR transaction listing for 26/09/08? Of course I'm not receiving bonus points, but I'm also not getting the usual entries for 1.5 points per dollar with the Rewards Maximiser!

 

[straitman]

I'm not receiving bonus points, but I'm also not getting the usual entries for 1.5 points per dollar with the Rewards Maximiser!

That is strange.

I believe a few days to let the dust settle will be the best answer with a lot of this. :idea:

 

[deluxeflyer]

Was the use of the word 'fraud' actually from AMEX or from the CSR :?:

Er, the person I spoke to at Amex used the word "fraud". Not sure if that makes him a CSR ?
I should have asked exactly what he meant.
FWIW, I said something about "manipulation of charges" and he agreed.

Please don't come down on me like a ton of bricks....

 

[futaris]

I don't have the T&Cs of MR in front of me, but there's a clause in there...

This clause:

14.9 Our failure to enforce a particular term or condition does not constitute a waiver of that term or condition by us.

 

[oz_mark]

Was the use of the word 'fraud' actually from AMEX or from the CSR :?:

'Apparent fraudulent' is a step below saying there was fraud. I think it means they are still looking into it, and the way cards are being used.

 

[rodgerbranch]

Well... Its not over till is over.

Well... Its not over till is over.

As I said these new "T&C" sound more like a wish from those who want to convince Amex to rule in their favor rather than an actual T&C LOL. I wouldnt mind getting point 1) applied to me since I registered on the 18th but It is unlikely those are the actual new T&C. The original T&C said ... People registered between the 10th SEP and 31 DEC 2008.

Cutting many people out and applying a Cap for some and not Cap for others would be the worst thought fix. First of all, it is overcomplicated. Secondly the number of users targeted would be reduced, reducing the effect of the Promo. A Change like this to the T&C would not leave an even number of Amex users in each state to spread the use of Amex and that is not good for Them.

Most important, Unlimited Points that can be earned with purchases worth a couple of dollars will certenly be against the T&C of the reward providers such as Qantas, other airlines, Hotels, etc.. unlimited points for a penny would devaluate their existing offers (look at the current offers for Joining Amex and the earn 1.5points for every dollar you spend offer)


No body mentions anything about the Corporate cards wich were excluded from all Promos from the begining as well. Many of the guys happy for the so called "new T&C" have posts saying they signed up for the promo on corporate cards.

I think the fix is coming and it will be a ONE KILLS ALL type of solution. Probably they will keep everyone who signed for the promo and limit the No of points to 10Kpoints / month + min purchase of $50. Less people would be upset this way. For those who stop earning unlimited points, well... will stay to earn 10KBonus points per month till DEC. Remember these bonus points are a GIFT on top of your normally earned points from your purchases (for those who will say I SPEND over $10,000 / month anyway)

If you signed up for the promo Dont worry until you get and Oficial leter from Amex.

 

[straitman]

Er, the person I spoke to at Amex used the word "fraud". Not sure if that makes him a CSR ?
I should have asked exactly what he meant.
FWIW, I said something about "manipulation of charges" and he agreed.

Please don't come down on me like a ton of bricks....

deluxeflyer,

Apologies if I came across harshly as this was definitely not my intent. I'll endeavour to explain/ask again. :shock:

I was simply asking whether, in your opinion, the use of the word fraud was an official comment from AMEX or simply the individuals spin on what AMEX are saying.

ie often people put their own interpretation on what they have been told to say and maybe this was one such occasion.

 

[Mal]

Re: Well... Its not over till is over.

Most important, Unlimited Points that can be earned with purchases worth a couple of dollars will certenly be against the T&C of the reward providers such as Qantas, other airlines, Hotels, etc.. unlimited points for a penny would devaluate their existing offers (look at the current offers for Joining Amex and the earn 1.5points for every dollar you spend offer)

Nope. Amex pays Qantas et.al a certain amount per point they redeem. Qantas doesn't care about how many points Amex buys, nor how Amex's customers earn those points that Amex buys.

 

[futago flyer]

Hi guys,

On the 20th I thought I had registered my Qantas Amex card... just called to see if I was still able to get the 10 000 cap option... Given the new T&Cs.

Turns out I was never registered!!! I had even called to confirm I was registered - A few minutes after registering. I haven't had any point bonuses but thought it was a delay or maybe the suspension of all bonus points being added that people here were discussing.

Well I said this was very unfair. CSA tried to register me, given I had been given incorrect information, however she couldn't as the system now prevents my card (qantas type) from registering.

As I said before I missed the boat. I can't cry poor about it, as my card was never targeted. I didn't and won't compain to amex. Just thought other might be interested in my tale.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

yea i had the same impression too good to see that they at least honour the early adopters

shame for the legit people that were away from home and who had a targeted DM will miss out on the old T&Cs

BTW guys.. Luisa M from AMEX is the VP of Public Affairs not Marketing.

I think that message from Luisa was the biggest mistake that she will have made in her corporate life...and in most people's coprprate life.

She should have sat tight....or failing that given a "cautionary" message advising that there were also T&C in MR that needed to be observed..

To have come out and written on a Public Forum:
1/ confirmed the offer was legit
2/ that people who had registered who were not at all eligible would be allowed to remain

....were both most unwise and that these have dug a very large hole for Amex that I am sure her superiors are now trying to climb out of.

That such a basic blunder was done by someone supposedly an expert in Public Affairs is breathtaking.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just spoken to Amex.
Due to apparent fraudulent activity, the bonus points will now only be credited 8-10 weeks later, and not immediately.

Presumably, this is to give Amex time to suss out more fraudulent activity.

Anyone with more updates?

While there may be some fraud and/or abuse...I think this more due to sloppy T&C of the original promotion and to just give them more think time...

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I am absolutely amazed at the lengths some people will go to get the bonus points.

I believe that similar has be said about your attitude to QFF points John. EDIT: my point is that people have different motivations for things, so let's try not to be too judgemental.

That said, buying things you don't need is a bit risky. Especially if these purchases were brought forward from October. Why not just spend the money in October when you need the stuff?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

From the amended T&C

To ensure that as many Cardmembers as possible benefit from the offer, we have amended the terms and conditions to better reflect its original intent.

Now seriously how can Amex argue that?

The original promtion was no limit and clearly was an offer for the recipient to gain multiple lots of the bonus.

With the amended T&C some members will only gain ONE lot of bonus points (ie 10,000 in one hit) which will ten be the new monthly max of 10,000.

Now perhaps way maybe could mounta case the say that no limit was realy meant just imply a high number rather than unlimited (even though the no limit part was CLEARLY re-emphasised and when you rang up where it was repeated).

But how in any way shape or form could now imposing a limit of one, and only one bonus , be now interpreted as "to better reflect its original intent."

Clearly this is false.

Amex may wish to alter the T&C...but to do it based on this claimed basis is just clearly wrong and cannot be reasonably argued.

 

[file51]

I think if Amex were smart they would honour the original T&C to anyone who recieved a promo card irrelevant of the date they registered. To pick a date and segregate cardholders purely based on this is discriminatory.

To be fair, making an amendment in the T&C going forward, i.e. not restropectively is fair, maybe in regards to a minimum spend level, say $10 or $20, and maybe new registrations capped from a specific date, once again, either the same day or going forward as notification MUST be provided prior to any changes being implemented. It in unlawful to say we made these changes 1 week ago, but are only telling you now. Legal folk and bodies such as the ACCC will eat that up and spit it out so quickly, heads will be spinning for weeks, if not months within the American Express organisation.

As per previous, this is where Amex stand to lose a lot more, since there are consumer protections, laws and legislations that protect the cardholder from retrospective amendments in T&C such as what was originally offered.

 

[file51]

It should be noted as well that the promotional cards that were sent out, were strategically motivated,

i.e. Those that already had a high spend average on there Amex card were sent the 10,000 points per 20 transaction card.

Promo ID: AMEXENG0264_H_S
Card Stock: AE3771 08/08_HI_SYD

Those that had low or irregular spend were sent the 5,000 points per 5 transaction card.

Promo ID: AMEXENG0264_L_S
Card Stock: AE3771 08/08_LOW_SYD


So Amex had obviously spent a lot of time planning things. Obviously if fraudulent activity has occured Amex need to tighten there systems and implement procedures to detect such activity, but to punish a lot of people due to the actions of maybe a few, on top of blaming things on technical difficulties is grounds for a lot of unhappy campers.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

While there may be some fraud and/or abuse...I think this more due to sloppy T&C of the original promotion and to just give them more think time...

I suppose it's possible that some people were buying things, getting the points and moving them elsewhere, before then returning product (leading to negative balances) - or similar.

Having to wait 8-10 weeks means that the purchaser needs to hold onto the purchase for at least that long.