Delays in BNE

[straitman]

RNP = RNAV (GNSS) Non Precision

Wannabee,

As you know that whilst the RNAV approach is non precision the minima are frequently not a lot higher than that of an ILS. I don't have a copy of DAPS any more so could you look up and compare the relative minima for the RNAV and ILS for BNE?

 

[NM]

So a 738 can't use it then? I thought there was evidence to the contrary earlier this thread.

Upgrading a taxiway is cheaper and faster than a whole new runway.....

I don't know what the limits on the runway would be if the limits on the taxiways were removed. Its possible the taxiway limits are in place due to runway limits. No point allowing a heavy aircraft onto the taxiways that only lead to a runway they cannot use.

 

[docjames]

Nope, have taken off in a 738 from it, 1.7km.

How did this happen then?

 

[samh004]

I'm not sure why a longer period of works (say 2 months) and a shorter period per night couldn't work better to take into account the numerous late night flights, but I guess it's only 30 landings/takeoffs to be disrupted per carrier affected, so it's not too big a deal!

 

[NM]

This Jeppesen map is dated 32/12/2011, so its about 15 months old. Not sure if anything has changed since then regarding the taxiway restrictions noted.


See here for full doc source for YBBN.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76892298/YBBN-Charts

 

[markis10]

Wannabee,

As you know that whilst the RNAV approach is non precision the minima are frequently not a lot higher than that of an ILS. I don't have a copy of DAPS any more so could you look up and compare the relative minima for the RNAV and ILS for BNE?

01 RNAV is 430

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/BBNGN01-134.pdf

ILS

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/BBNII02-134.pdf

 

[markis10]

So a 738 can't use it then? I thought there was evidence to the contrary earlier this thread.

Upgrading a taxiway is cheaper and faster than a whole new runway.....

No restrictions on a D1 entry and track back.

Current ERSA FAC:

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/ersa/FAC_YBBN_7-Mar-2013.pdf

RWY 14/32: FLW ACFT are covered by pavement concession:
A320 - up to 200 series with weight limit of 56,000KG & MAX tyre pressure of 1100KPA; F28 - all variants, no weight or tyre pressure limitation;
F100 - all variants, no weight or tyre pressure limitation;
BA146 - all variants, no weight or tyre pressure limitation;
B737 - all variants with weight limit of 56,000 KG & MAX tyre pressure of 1350 KPA; EMB170/190 - all variants with weight limit of 56,000 KG & MAX tyre pressure of 1350 KPA.

 

[NM]

No restrictions on a D1 entry and track back.

But how does one get to D1 without using D, E, F1 or F2? The restriction for 56,000kg and various max tyre pressures seem to apply to D, E, F1 and F2, which are the only access to entire Runway 14/32 and GA precinct, effectively enforcing those limits on the entire precinct. And given the restriction that B737 and above cannot execute 180 degree turn on 14/32, a 738 over 56,000kg could not land on 14, about-face and take off on 32 (or taxi back and take-off on 14).

So is the taxiway beyond the intersection of B and B1 leading to the intersection of D and D1 considered to be taxiway D (as I read this map, but your ATC experience will set me straight) or a continuation of B? If its B, then one can get to Runway 32 via B and D1. But if its D, then its restricted by the limited noted previously.

 

[docjames]

ISTR that at the end of B there is a sign with something like "A320 max" or "737 max" or something like that. About where the "D" is printed on that map.

Maybe an AFFer could get a photo (will need to be in an A seat......)??

 

[docjames]

The YMML chart is interesting - showing 9 stages of runway/taxiway closures for repair/upgrades.
YMML Charts

 

[markis10]

But how does one get to D1 without using D, E, F1 or F2? The restriction for 56,000kg and various max tyre pressures seem to apply to D, E, F1 and F2, which are the only access to entire Runway 14/32 and GA precinct, effectively enforcing those limits on the entire precinct. And given the restriction that B737 and above cannot execute 180 degree turn on 14/32, a 738 over 56,000kg could not land on 14, about-face and take off on 32 (or taxi back and take-off on 14).

So is the taxiway beyond the intersection of B and B1 leading to the intersection of D and D1 considered to be taxiway D (as I read this map, but your ATC experience will set me straight) or a continuation of B? If its B, then one can get to Runway 32 via B and D1. But if its D, then its restricted by the limited noted previously.

View attachment 14050

The runway has the same restrictions as the taxiway so it's probably irrelevant, note its operating weight not MTOW, the times I have used that runway in a 737 from memory were Sydney bound flights so probably well within the limits. On the GLEXs no issues .

 

[markis10]

RNP = RNAV (GNSS) Non Precision

Unless its being used with a LAAS, which if course in the context of the thread is not the case, technical definitions aside I would regard a GNSS as being far more precise than say a DME let down or VOR approach, which is probably the way I should have worded it!

 

[JetSetting88]

BAC could fund another 4 runways with the amount of money they make from Parking/Taxi/Bus fees.

 

[samh004]

BAC could fund another 4 runways with the amount of money they make from Parking/Taxi/Bus fees.

I'm not so sure, how much do those 3 areas make? Are there results available somewhere online if they're publicly traded?

 

[scheps]

I have experienced 100% delays on QF 978. Haven't had one on time in the last 10 or so i can recall.

 

[JetSetting88]

I'm not so sure, how much do those 3 areas make? Are there results available somewhere online if they're publicly traded?

4 is an exaggeration, but at ~$80mill a year and keeping upto 70% in just parking its a pretty big haul.

Airports parking huge profits
http://www.bne.com.au/sites/all/files/content/files/AnnualReport2012.pdf

 

[markis10]

BAC could fund another 4 runways with the amount of money they make from Parking/Taxi/Bus fees.

You do realise that not one extra runway has been added by any Australian airport since privatisation and some have been closed, I am not a BNE supporter by any means, I find their management and ideas to lack common sense mostly, but they are hardly the sole villain.

 

[oz_mark]

You do realise that not one extra runway has been added by any Australian airport since privatisation and some have been closed, I am not a BNE supporter by any means, I find their management and ideas to lack common sense mostly, but they are hardly the sole villain.

Seems they all got leased to property developers rather than airport operators.

 

[JetSetting88]

You do realise that not one extra runway has been added by any Australian airport since privatisation and some have been closed, I am not a BNE supporter by any means, I find their management and ideas to lack common sense mostly, but they are hardly the sole villain.

That may be true, but it's not as if they can't afford it.

I still don't see why its the airlines responsibility to front the cost. Much the same as a road user doesn't front the cost of a new highway/bridge/tunnel.

 

[samh004]

That may be true, but it's not as if they can't afford it.

I still don't see why its the airlines responsibility to front the cost. Much the same as a road user doesn't front the cost of a new highway/bridge/tunnel.

But quite often a new road/bridge/tunnel will have a high toll... so perhaps BAC should absorb the cost for now and increase taxes when its built!

As for how much they make on parking, assuming they didn't need that cash for anything else, after 10 years they'd still be half a billion short (assuming $1.3 billion is the correct figure). That said, isn't their master plan to add businesses and office space to the airport precinct... so they'll make it back and they know that!