Should business class be buyer beware?

[JohnK]

Why offer a product for sale that does not exist on certain aircraft types? Qantas does this on Dash-8s, why cant Virgin?

I am extremely unhappy, and angry, that I paid for business class SYD-CNS to sit in an economy seat in an E190. The seat in 1F is no different to the seat in 3F.

And what is worse tonights flight TSV-BNE in business class appears to be the same aircraft E190 and I have been shifted from 1F to 2A.

This is not fair. I paid to sit in business class not economy. Do people just accept this type of service? I don't pay to travel in business class that often and I hate being ripped off....

 

[serfty]

...

This is not fair. I paid to sit in business class not economy. Do people just accept this type of service? I don't pay to travel in business class that often and I hate being ripped off....

If you look at the product description, E190 business flight are described as each PAX getting two 'economy' seats - to paraphrase.

At least in row 2 you will be able to raise the armrest between the seats for addiotnal space.

 

[ms1]

If you look at the product description, E190 business flight are described as each PAX getting two 'economy' seats - to paraphrase.

That's funny cause I flew SYD-KTA via PER with the PER-KTA being on an E190. I didn't get a second seat nor did I receive any preferential treatment. Just got the sandwich which all passengers receive.

 

[markis10]

That's funny cause I flew SYD-KTA via PER with the PER-KTA being on an E190. I didn't get a second seat nor did I receive any preferential treatment. Just got the sandwich which all passengers receive.

Nothing funny about it, PER KTA is not a route that has business class on it.

http://www.virginaustralia.com/au/e...light/cabin-classes/business/business-routes/

 

[muppet]

Why offer a product for sale that does not exist on certain aircraft types? Qantas does this on Dash-8s, why cant Virgin?

I am extremely unhappy, and angry, that I paid for business class SYD-CNS to sit in an economy seat in an E190. The seat in 1F is no different to the seat in 3F.

And what is worse tonights flight TSV-BNE in business class appears to be the same aircraft E190 and I have been shifted from 1F to 2A.

This is not fair. I paid to sit in business class not economy. Do people just accept this type of service? I don't pay to travel in business class that often and I hate being ripped off....

I think a year ago you and others had a legitimate complaint - not any more. JohnK you're quite an active member of the forum, I have difficulty believing you were unaware that on a number of J flights that the seat consists of two former PE seats on the E190.

As I've said on other threads, the two PE seats on the E-Jet is my preferred J, you have heaps more space and somewhere to put the galaxy tablet.

 

[markis10]

Why offer a product for sale that does not exist on certain aircraft types? Qantas does this on Dash-8s, why cant Virgin?

I am extremely unhappy, and angry, that I paid for business class SYD-CNS to sit in an economy seat in an E190. The seat in 1F is no different to the seat in 3F.

And what is worse tonights flight TSV-BNE in business class appears to be the same aircraft E190 and I have been shifted from 1F to 2A.

This is not fair. I paid to sit in business class not economy. Do people just accept this type of service? I don't pay to travel in business class that often and I hate being ripped off....

DJ are upgrading their J offering for the E190 as you should be aware, and it will be completed after February so patience is required (although it should have been looked at much earlier IMHO), I would have thought it was good value for $200 considering you cannot buy two Y seats for that!

 

[muppet]

Nothing funny about it, PER KTA is not a route that has business class on it.

Business-Routes | Virgin Australia

Very true markis10, but it wouldn't kill them to give you the two seats when you purchase a published J fare?

 

[ms1]

Nothing funny about it, PER KTA is not a route that has business class on it.

Business-Routes | Virgin Australia

Ah right I see.

However, I did purchase the SYD-KTA flight on business class and there was no mention of there not being business class offered on the KTA-PER leg. I know with Qantas there is always advance warning during the booking process if there is no business class on any of the legs.

 

[pythonisman]

Ah right I see.

However, I did purchase the SYD-KTA flight on business class and there was no mention of there not being business class offered on the KTA-PER leg. I know with Qantas there is always advance warning during the booking process if there is no business class on any of the legs.

IME VA are pretty good with doing that, I've seen a number of mixed class warnings before.

I plugged in a random date in the future:

Edit: I was gonna say I don't know if it wasn't like that when you booked, and if it wasn't then I agree, you'd have course to be annoyed, if it was never articulated at that or a subsequent step during booking...

 

[ms1]

IME VA are pretty good with doing that, I've seen a number of mixed class warnings before.

I plugged in a random date in the future:

Edit: I was gonna say I don't know if it wasn't like that when you booked, and if it wasn't then I agree, you'd have course to be annoyed, if it was never articulated at that or a subsequent step during booking...

I wonder if they've just recently introduced that warning. I can confirm with certainty that I never received that warning during the booking process.

 

[mannej]

John, how is it any different to a QF award where a BNE-SYD is in J, however SYD-LAX is in Y?

Yet QF still have to cheek to charge full J rates...

 

[anat0l]

If it were that bad JohnK then did you file a complaint for a possible refund (full or partial)?

I know; it "should not happen in the first place".....

Then again, like everyone alludes to, it's a bit like purchasing J on QF for a 738, then getting subbed out to a 734. I suppose it's always "buyer beware" on almost any airline where there is a route flown with a possibility of equipment swap (or different products across equipment types). For example, QF with A380 vs 747; VA with A330 vs 738; CX 747 vs 777 on regional routes.......

How did everyone know JohnK got this seat (these seats?) for a mere $200 (i.e. during one of the J Happy Hour sales)?

John, how is it any different to a QF award where a BNE-SYD is in J, however SYD-LAX is in Y?

Yet QF still have to cheek to charge full J rates...

I'm sure we all hate that, too, but that's got nothing to do with the topic at hand. Besides, I'm sure JohnK doesn't take that kind of stuff hands down anyway (but luckily one can avoid it at the booking stage, and they have alerts now - poor, but better than nothing).

 

[samh004]

John, how is it any different to a QF award where a BNE-SYD is in J, however SYD-LAX is in Y?

Yet QF still have to cheek to charge full J rates...

Because they note it in the booking process?

Even with an aircraft swap on QF, it'd be the same outcome, but not so on Virgin at this stage, where an aircraft swap could mean the difference between 738 J, E190 J, or E190 Y x2

 

[markis10]

Even with an aircraft swap on QF, it'd be the same outcome, but not so on Virgin at this stage, where an aircraft swap could mean the difference between 738 J, E190 J, or E190 Y x2

huh, a 738 going to a 734 would mean you end up with 1.4 Y seats, at least with DJ you get two.

 

[muppet]

How did everyone know JohnK got this seat (these seats?) for a mere $200 (i.e. during one of the J Happy Hour sales)?

I think it's assumed, he is very thrifty with airfares (not intended as an insult JohnK). Not a great chance he would value CNS-BNE at $550 odd.

 

[mannej]

How is it different?

It is assumed that people do read the ! Fine print, but the fact they charge full whack yet the short haul is J is enough to anger and annoy anyone who is unaware.

Add to that how John has stated QF are angels in this regard when they are not.

 

[JohnK]

John, how is it any different to a QF award where a BNE-SYD is in J, however SYD-LAX is in Y?

I am not saying that QF are any better.

My question was how do you sell business class on a flight with no business class?

And I am sorry but whether I paid full airfare, or paid $200, or used points to upgrade is irrelevant. I sat in an economy seat with a business class boarding pass. It is that simple.

And Qantas is dumb. They should sell business class on a Dash-8 and give you 2 seats.

I cannot believe people are justifying this practice.

 

[JohnK]

If it were that bad JohnK then did you file a complaint for a possible refund (full or partial)?

First flight was 2 days ago and next flight is now. And yes I will be filing a complaint.

I want my complimentary upgrade back and I don't know what I am asking for yet for the paid flight.

I know; it "should not happen in the first place".....

It is so easy to block out business class like Qantas for Dash-8s.

How did everyone know JohnK got this seat (these seats?) for a mere $200 (i.e. during one of the J Happy Hour sales)?

I am sorry but how is this relevant?

And yes I am a dope. I don't follow product releases. I booked a "business class" flight SYD-CNS and used my complimentary upgrade on the CNS-TSV-BNE flight. Both medium hauls on an E190. I could have easily sat in row 3 in economy and the experience would have almost been the same.

And FWIW the dinner a couple of days ago was a joke. Something that resembled 2 Premium biscuits with some ricotta and zucchini. I would not call that dinner. Not even in my wildest stretch of the imagination. I was still hungry and then snacked on every junk food available which is not nice.

 

[anat0l]

And Qantas is dumb. They should sell business class on a Dash-8 and give you 2 seats.

Heh - that's what we call Euro J. Though hell good luck to QF to try and get the catering on board Dash 8s to support that class of service.

I am sorry but how is this relevant?

Well I agree with you there, but there was an emerging sub-argument (or rebuttal) to your complaint which was trying to argue that your grievance held less weight than a "prima facie" case because you paid so little for it, i.e. your fare would've barely covered an equivalent Y fare even at sale, so most people are saying it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

In any case, I only asked because it's funny how people seemed to assume right away (with some confidence) that it was a $200 fare; in actual fact it looks like they were all wrong.

 

[straitman]

At least DJ are addressing the problem with the business class refits to the E190 having been started.