Who's actually behind the 8 ball - VA or QF in the ingenuity stakes?

[munitalP]

Im looking at the last 12 months or so, and I keep hearing the fanboi carry on about VA etc. OK fine, nice, good, pat on the back old man and all the rest of the warm fuzzy stuff that the fanboi fraternity wants and needs, however, who came first, the chicken (QF) or the egg (VA) in the ingenuity stakes?

It seems everything VA is doing is a copy of what QF have already done - thats good if you are a Japanese company not wanting to spend too much on R&D! Lets look at the list:

Frequent flyer structure of status credits etc
Business class
Platinum status

Im sure theres more, but here's the clincher that VA have a smaller think tank than QF in the ingenuity stakes - Virgin Wines. Buy Wine Online | Delivered to Your Door | Virgin Wines

OK, I may be spouting off here suggesting that this comes close on the tail of QF's Wine Club, but please... I'm sure I will be flamed if Im wrong, I have my asbestos suit at hand, and Im sure someone will find that the idea was thought of before QF thought of theirs, but...

Start thinking for yourself VA and stop trying to be like QANTAS - you have the ability to be stand alone, you proved that as a LCC - well a Mid to High cost carrier with LCC service in the past, get up, stand up and do something QANTAS has not already done - and if you can't, it's time to fire your marketing team...


:fireproof suit on:

:shock:

 

[UP4014]

Could have something to do with the current head of Virgin being nearly the head of QANTAS. :mrgreen:

 

[nlagalle]

They did put in the toasted sandwich machine into the lounge... but then it was an AFF suggestion! :mrgreen:

 

[straitman]

Could have something to do with the current head of Virgin being nearly the head of QANTAS. :mrgreen:

.... and something to do with asking the pro QF AFF crowd what they wanted and then, at least partially, acting upon that information.

They did put in the toasted sandwich machine into the lounge... but then it was an AFF suggestion! :mrgreen:

Like I said :!:

 

[notzac]

If I'm not mistaken, the Virgin Wines idea was from the UK from quite some time ago (see Virgin Wines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

As for the rest ... to be honest, I think most of the "original" ideas were thought of in the 60's - 90's. Priority boarding: taken straight from the AA playbook. Domestic First Class: I'm guessing this was also AA? Status Credits / Tier Credits: no idea, combination BA / QF?

What I'm getting at is that I don't think either carrier are necessarily ingenious; what's more interesting to me is how well both of them implement this stuff. QF gets a bunch of stuff right, but seems to have stopped trying of late (save for NGCI, which I'm not personally sold on). Virgin have bits and pieces that they've absolutely nailed (new lounges, priority boarding), but still aren't quite up to scratch in others (#&%$^@# partner frequent flyer points crediting, FF program in general, etc) ... but at least they seem to be actively trying to get it right.

That sound like a fair assessment?

 

[markis10]

Im sure theres more, but here's the clincher that VA have a smaller think tank than QF in the ingenuity stakes - Virgin Wines. Buy Wine Online | Delivered to Your Door | Virgin Wines

Smaller think tank than QF or an example of poor research skills? Virgin Wines was actually started as coughic wines in 1999 (ironic given the current QF IFE controversy) and Virgin bought in to the company in 2000 at which time the name changed. Virgin Wines Australia was launched in Nov 2010, so yes, you are wrong, in fact if we hark back to the original concept, QF took 11 years to follow, of course cellarmasters and the Rothbury Estate to name but a few could accuse all airlines of being slow .

Perhaps its a case that Qantas should stop being like Virgin, at least using your example!

 

[medhead]

I'm coming to the conclusion that they are 2 very different airlines that just use similar terminology, like SCs and status levels. I'm not sure how to describe what I mean but take the flying experience:

Qantas tell me if I fly with them I get from ADL to SYD, a meal and 1000 points* minimum. If I do that 40 times I get some free booze before my flight and some snacks. All for $209 per flight in October.

Virgin Australia tell me I get from ADL to SYD, no meal, variable points based on fare paid (695). Do that 40 times and I get the booze before my flight. All for $139 per flight in October.

So for $70 I can have a "meal" I probably don't want. Of course, I sometimes want a meal and many people also want a meal (and checked luggage). So qantas caters for that need. Good on them. Most times I don't want a "meal", I certainly don't want a Byron bay cookie. Virgin Australia are catering for that need and saving me money.

What am I saying? (I'm not sure). Maybe that it is a diverse market place and we are lucky to have options that cater to varying tastes, wants and needs.

 

[munitalP]

Smaller think tank than QF or an example of poor research skills? Virgin Wines was actually started as coughic wines in 1999 (ironic given the current QF IFE controversy) and Virgin bought in to the company in 2000 at which time the name changed. Virgin Wines Australia was launched in Nov 2010, so yes, you are wrong, in fact if we hark back to the original concept, QF took 11 years to follow, of course cellarmasters and the Rothbury Estate to name but a few could accuse all airlines of being slow .

Perhaps its a case that Qantas should stop being like Virgin, at least using your example!

I new I would be corrected

 

[markis10]

I new I would be corrected

You can take the suit off now

 

[LiamR]

I'm sorry munitalP, but I totally disagree with you.

I can see what you are saying, and understand how you have come to that conclusion. Both airlines are offering similar product offerings. However,

Virgin Australia is now a major airline, so is Qantas. Of course they are going to offer similar products.

SCs based on distance? What major airline doesn't do this? (BA,AA,QF,CX all do. I don't think they copied that from QF)

Business Class, sure, Qantas invented international business class many moons ago, but almost every airline in the world offers this. Virgin introducing it is nothing new.

A platinum tier? Once again, most airlines have this. It isn't exclusive to Qantas. It is a natural progression of Virgin to introduce this.

I fly Qantas for work travel (Return trip every 1-2 weeks) and Virgin for personal travel (2-5 times a month) and find them to be complete opposites.

Qantas is highly professional. Their colour schemes in the lounges, aircraft and website reflect this. The aircraft seating for example, is a very neutral colour with a grey (last time I checked) bulkhead between the cabin, same with the lounge colours, very nice, but very neutral, dark greys, blacks ect ect. It is a business focused airline, and the staff are highly professional leaving passengers on their own.

Virgin on the other hand, while it is professional, there is lots of flair within the airline. The lounges are modern and funky, with bright colours and vibrant lighting. The new aircraft mirror this as well, purple dividers, bright blue lighting in the daytime as well as very social crew. The uniforms are another example, they are much more bold, particularly for the women, wearing red and purple, not as bold compared to Qantas. (While QFs uniforms are still very nice and professional.)

In my eyes, they are completely different airlines attempting to wow business passengers in completely separate ways, sure, they are going to have some overlap where they do the same thing. But they are an airline, of course there will be some overlap!

At the end of the day. Both Qantas and Virgin are in the business of moving people from A, to B. Sometimes we forget that is the main goal.

 

[munitalP]

...
Virgin on the other hand, while it is professional, there is lots of flair within the airline. The lounges are modern and funky, with bright colours and vibrant lighting. The new aircraft mirror this as well, purple devisers, bright blue lighting in the daytime as well as very social crew. The uniforms are another example, they are much more bold, particularly for the women, wearing red and purple, not as bold compared to Qantas. (While QFs uniforms are still very nice and professional.)
...

Well put.

This was the basis of my post - get out there and get independent, DJ succeeded in doing this, I hop VA can as well instead of the perceived falling instep behind QANTAS.

On re-reading my original post, I see where people may misunderstand my intention, but for clarity of previous posts, I will leave it as stands.

munitalP

 

[dajop]

Both behind on the ingenuity stakes, NZ is miles ahead of both QF & VA (and no I am not a New Zealander)

 

[serfty]

Both behind on the ingenuity stakes, NZ is miles ahead of both QF & VA (and no I am not a New Zealander)

For better:

777-300 ER mini-reviews - Page 5 - FlyerTalk Forums

Or for Worse:

Air NZ refit its 77W fleet - FlyerTalk Forums

 

[Groundfeeder]

Big thinkers at VA went for a white plane with a (largely) red tail - that's ingenuity??

 

[samiam]

Big thinkers at VA went for a white plane with a (largely) red tail - that's ingenuity??

Could you explain what that means please? Is it sarcasm or are you stating that VA aren't clever. It's a bit hard to tell as the post responds to a tongue-in-cheek comment re Air NZ.

I agree with others- it's 'mostly' been done before by other parties (and both QF and VA may have had firsts in their own right) .

IMO, no real 'wows' in the ideas department from either party; the key difference at the moment is that (as stated) VA is proactively trying to improve customer experience and benefits whilst QF, if not entirely the opposite, is kinda in customer-service neutral.

 

[UP4014]

Big thinkers at VA went for a white plane with a (largely) red tail - that's ingenuity??

My office sits under one of the flight paths out of Sydney, at first I thought geez QF is doing a lot more flights today then remembered Virgin now has the same colour scheme.

 

[oz_mark]

Well put.

This was the basis of my post - get out there and get independent, DJ succeeded in doing this, I hop VA can as well instead of the perceived falling instep behind QANTAS.

On re-reading my original post, I see where people may misunderstand my intention, but for clarity of previous posts, I will leave it as stands.

munitalP

Here I was thinking you were just upset at missing out on last years bonus point offer for taking up subscription!

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ocity/virgin-get-into-plonk-1000-a-26977.html

 

[DJ 1D]

As others have said, almost everything both companies are doing/have done were originally implemented somewhere else. So very little "ingenuity".

That being said, the most ingenious thing I have seen done is the Premium security entry to the VA lounge in Sydney. That is something I have never seen before, and it makes the airport experience a thousand times better.

 

[Justchecking]

I don't think DJ is claiming any of it's recent developments to be actual innovations, more along the lines of putting in services and infrastructure expected of a premium carrier. The innovation part is more in the look and feel of it's product with the design of lounges, cabin etc. I really wonder if there is much space for innovation in aviation anyway. Let's face it all airlines fly the same aircraft (choice of only a few manufactures) have the same services and infrastructure. Competitive advantage is a matter of making your particular version of it as appealing as possible.

DJ trying to be QF? Seriously that's a charge that could be leveled at any carrier offering lounges, FF program and flights. QF are hardly the soul of originality when it comes to airline services. You might as well post 'DJ stop trying to be an airline! Come on be something else...'

 

[aurora]

... the most ingenious thing I have seen done is the Premium security entry to the VA lounge in Sydney. That is something I have never seen before, and it makes the airport experience a thousand times better.

agreed.

also, i know this is going back a way, but to their credit Velocity were the first FF program (at least in Australia - not sure about internationally) to offer Any Seat rewards. Lo and behold, QF introduce this a few years later - because it's a good idea and something we want