Why fly business? I don't see the value?

[djfuzz]

One thing that has been glossed over in this otherwise fascinating thread is the rise of Y+.

I'm with a number of other posters in this thread - other than a DONE4, certain competitively priced CX routes, JASAs and JQ *Class (Sorry, JohnK!), I would struggle to justify paying for J fares for self-funded travel (but not necessarily work-related travel, of course) and would rather put money saved on full-J fares towards almost anything else.

On the other hand, where there are competitive priced Y+ fares on routes, there's some incentive to pay a little extra to get a certain level of extra service (primarily legroom, food) that I would certainly consider paying a little more for. Of course, part of that is the fact that when combined with status, you still get all the ground benefits and many of the baggage benefits of a premium passenger anyway, and can use points to upgrade if possible, massively increasing the value of those fares.

Unfortunately, QF Y+ only tends to be so attractive when on sale, and others have mentioned the problems with BA Y+. It will be interesting to see how CX and other airlines start to implement Y+ because as a passenger I see it as a potentially very sweet spot for self-funded leisure travel.

 

[extracta]

Really? less than economy?:?:

Really

For instance just used a date of 6 Jul - 1 Aug Bne- Bkk return.

Cheapest QF economy $1665 (from QF website)

Royal Brunei Business with Lie flat beds most of the way and lounge access at both ends and in the middle $1232 (booked through expedia.com)

Doesn't mean you can get it every day but if you do the research and are prepared to fly at particular times you can get a better product at a cheaper price. There are other products out there with other carriers that are a bit more expensive but the price is still reasonable.

There are also some routes flown by airlines where if they use a particular aircraft it may have a class of service seat that is not sold on that route or the seating overlaps. ie the route may not have J/F seats for sale but one of the aircrafts they use on the day may have J or F seating. It is possible to book your flight and then ring up and ask or select the seat during online booking that is in the F/J section. I learnt this one from a thread on flyertalk and have used it successfuly.

I rarely fly the same airline twice in a row. I am prepared to use whichever airline I can get the best deal on.

It doesn't always work out perfectly but in general I fly very comfortably at a good price.

 

[flyman]

Really

For instance just used a date of 6 Jul - 1 Aug Bne- Bkk return.

Cheapest QF economy $1665 (from QF website)

Royal Brunei Business with Lie flat beds most of the way and lounge access at both ends and in the middle $1232 (booked through expedia.com)
.

you really seem to know your stuff - I wouldn't know where to start looking for the best deal - i generally use flightcentre.com.au - can I ask what is the best / easiest way to find the best deal e.g when looking for return sydney-london? is expedia the best or do you search a bunch of sites simultaneously?

 

[albatross710]

I wouldn't know where to start looking for the best deal - i generally use flightcentre.com.au ?

1. Firstly don't both with flight centre, do your research online, sites like expedia, bestflights, webjet. Workout which airlines are doing deals or introducing new services on your target routes. Subscribe to Expert FLyer

2. One thing is doing the research, then choose from where you want to buy the fare, direct, TA or online.

 

[toronto]

Really

For instance just used a date of 6 Jul - 1 Aug Bne- Bkk return.

Cheapest QF economy $1665 (from QF website)

Royal Brunei Business with Lie flat beds most of the way and lounge access at both ends and in the middle $1232 (booked through expedia.com)

Doesn't mean you can get it every day but if you do the research and are prepared to fly at particular times you can get a better product at a cheaper price. There are other products out there with other carriers that are a bit more expensive but the price is still reasonable.

There are also some routes flown by airlines where if they use a particular aircraft it may have a class of service seat that is not sold on that route or the seating overlaps. ie the route may not have J/F seats for sale but one of the aircrafts they use on the day may have J or F seating. It is possible to book your flight and then ring up and ask or select the seat during online booking that is in the F/J section. I learnt this one from a thread on flyertalk and have used it successfuly.

I rarely fly the same airline twice in a row. I am prepared to use whichever airline I can get the best deal on.

It doesn't always work out perfectly but in general I fly very comfortably at a good price.

 

[extracta]

you really seem to know your stuff - I wouldn't know where to start looking for the best deal - i generally use flightcentre.com.au - can I ask what is the best / easiest way to find the best deal e.g when looking for return sydney-london? is expedia the best or do you search a bunch of sites simultaneously?

I don't know what the "best deal" is. It is going to be different for everybody I guess.

I always check the sites of the likes of flight centre to see if I can get any ideas. I also notice quite often that the flights are often cheaper on flight centre and expedia than they are if you book on the airlines website.

The other thing is to check the websites of the carriers that service the route you are after, and also be aware of other carriers that may cover that route in a roundabout fashion.

Forums like this one and Flyertalk are excellent sources of information.

Probably the best thing you could do to get ideas on your own personal flight is to start a thread on here and ask the forum members for ideas on the route, seat and date that you are after. A lot of them will go to a lot of effort to try and help.

 

[doczim]

Really interesting read this thread. I've never flown J international, only domestic. I've always wanted to be in the position where I can afford J or F fares for my long haul. I am probably there now from an affording perspective, but I too think of the opportunity cost. I;ve been looking at BNE-LAX for july/sept. Sale in Y $2000; Sale in Y+ $4000; Sale in J $9000. So for all 3 of us $6000 extra for Y+ and $21000 extra for J. I am seriously considering the Y+ as I think I can justify the +6k in my own mind, but I cant the +21k.

Of course I completely understand those that see it a different way. and If it were just me traveling also, then I would see it a different way. its the multiplier effect that kills it for me!!

 

[flyman]

If it were just me traveling also, then I would see it a different way. its the multiplier effect that kills it for me!!

completely agree - the damn wife and kids can be a hindrance
theres always the option of you going J whilst the others go Y

 

[KitKat]

completely agree - the damn wife and kids can be a hindrance
theres always the option of you going J whilst the others go Y

This may cost you a lot more.... in more ways than you can imagine:shock:

 

[Durin's Bane]

Hi All
I have always wondered this - why do so many people fly self-funded business long-haul when it costs 3 x or more the cost of economy?

I am a high income earner yet I still fly economy because I consider the cost differential between economy and business to be poor value relative to other areas of life e.g I'd rather buy more expensive goods / other services (e.g $6000 saved on a return flight to UK goes along way to eating out or better hotel, kids school fees etc)
- am i just being cheap or am i missing something?

I've travelled business when work has paid and do enjoy the better food/legroom but for me (being only 5ft 7ins) the legroom is not a massive deal and I can easily listen to audiobooks/read to kill the time in transit

are the people that self fund business travel just very wealthy, misguided or what?
or are there actually very few self funded business travellers out there?

is it because the self funders are all using FF points? but even then I would use FF points for economy flights so that I could travel more or is it a lot more efficient use of FF points to go business?

thanks for any insights

Flyman

It's all about priorities. For many enjoying the journey is key a great holiday, whilst you would prefer to spend it on accommodation etc.

Calling people like me "misguided" is rude. In a similar vein I could also call you a cheapskate for travelling in Y... and your definition of high income could be very different to mine as well.

 

[Durin's Bane]

You may as well ask why do people in Oz buy BMW cars. They are very expensive, don't hold their value as well as they would like you to believe, and for half the price elsewhere you can get 90% of the value.

You could say the same about everything in Oz, clothing, shoes, food, electronics etc... the law of dimishing returns the higher the price you pay.

Unless you are earning stupid money then I believe the opportunity cost of business class is very hard to justify. For example I have taken the family to the UK 4 times in the last 7 years. If we had chosen to fly business then for the same money/points we would have had 1 trip plus change. Would I sacrifice any of the memories of those trips for a nicer seat/meal/service on the flights? You've got to be kidding.

For many on a high income or sacrificing other pursuits to travel in J, it is very easy to justify. Personally I enjoy the better service, the better food, the more luxurious hard product, the First Class lounge facilities, the points and SC earning levels, etc. My wife also enjoys these comforts.

J is mostly badge value - but that is important to some people and it helps keep economy airfares down, so I'm all for other people having the money, medical problems, and egos that make them fork out for it!

Actually, it's much more than "badge value", but I don't think you understand. I'm glad you and your family travel though, it goes towards keeping Y full and increase the chances of Operational upgrades for flyers like me if by chance I am in Y.

 

[Heleigh]

Hi Flyman

When younger did Y now think I am worthy of J anf F

I fly J and F at the moment doing AONE and am sitting in Flagship Lounge I do enjoy luxury - I have had eough of Y class - In the era of ansett use to enjoy J class upgrades all the time sorry to see demise of golden wing then started QF. The other thing is I am claustrophobic and have had two attacks - so since then have being seated in J or F since (2005) even in J Dom.

Am self funded - not rich - no children - reasonable income and more than reasonable assets - so ything if I drop dead tomorrow I enjoy as much as I can . You on the other hand have spouse and children.

I beleive I am worht J/F I give 100K to family every year and when I travel my travel friend/s usually have one piece of luggage free and all check in at F.

If this thead is contined will put more in but have to go to flight now.

 

[Anna]

Domestically I would not usually fly J unless it was a JASA or I felt like asking for a points upgrade.

For flights longer than 6 hours I fly J because I can afford to and I find that Y is not just less comfortable, it is actually uncomfortable.

I remember flying to Europe in 1986 in Y - I had a window seat, but there was room for me to get out without having to ask the other pax to move. Those days are long gone.

 

[sinophile888]

Under no definition of high income earner would I ever qualify. But I am now at the point of flying Business class whenever I can afford it.

My daughter and I flew 7 legs to/from/around Europe over Christmas and we managed to get or pay for exit rows on 6 of the flights. All of the flights were under 7.5 hours and all during daylight hours. Exit row seats made the trip much more enjoyable. I feel claustrophobic in an Economy seat and find the flight time passes so slowly.

My next trip is one leg with each of QF, MU, CA and CX. This was best done on points as all the flights are one way and the schedule is very tight. I have requested/paid for exit row seats for most of the legs.

For the following trip in January, I have returned to Royal Brunei for their good Business Class special. I was really fortunate that all the BI flights for this trip fitted into my schedule perfectly.

I am (fast) approaching an age when I am no longer first or even tenth choice for exit rows sets. I do go to the gym on a regular and frequent basis; I think it’s just an age thing. My son, a 6’2” water polo player, is always offered exit row seats and never has to pay. Flights ex Perth do not have Premium Economy seats, and with exit row seats becoming less likely for me, I have had to start factoring in Business class fares into my travel plans.

One tricky aspect is that my husband is not too fussed about whether he flies Business or Economy class. My children would be horrified if I booked my husband down the back and me up the front, but if he’s happy then who am I to argue.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I;ve been looking at BNE-LAX for july/sept. Sale in Y $2000; Sale in Y+ $4000; Sale in J $9000. So for all 3 of us $6000 extra for Y+ and $21000 extra for J. I am seriously considering the Y+ as I think I can justify the +6k in my own mind, but I cant the +21k.

But you could book air pacific in business class return for about AUD3000 if the current fares they have continue

 

[Alanslegal]

Before any travels in J or F Class I definitely see the value in it, but a few days after I return from those trip .... I start thinking, I could have managed (being uncomfortable) in economy and saved $x amount.

 

[simongr]

I have repeatedly said that I don't love anyone in my family enough not to fly business class or better. As a result I don't travel as often as I could. I prefer to travel business and will do what I can to make that happen.

My next big personal overseas trip will be in 2013 - I don't have time for a big trip before then so I should be able to make sure we can fly in Biz class.

 

[ozmille]

Like we say back home;

"les goûts et les couleurs, ça ne se discute pas"

We pay for J class travel ourselves once (or more) times a year back home. But if you know where and when to book it is only marginally more expensive then whY travel so.

 

[doczim]

Like we say back home;

"les goûts et les couleurs, ça ne se discute pas"

We pay for J class travel ourselves once (or more) times a year back home. But if you know where and when to book it is only marginally more expensive then whY travel so.

Care to share?

 

[extracta]

Care to share?

There is no easy way to find these fares, it is generally time and route dependant.

You need to become an expert in the routes you want to travel.

Most of the time you will have to wait until the fares become available and then be prepared to stick to fixed dates. You will also not be able to choose your carrier of choice and may have to spend extra time in the air or have extra stopovers.

Getting cheap J class fares comes with restrictions but if you want fully flexible J fares that meet your every requirement then you are going to have to pay the big dollars.

Also people on this forum have experience in different parts of the world and like me probably only know there own little spheres.