Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[medhead]

I would definitely like to add a massive shout out to Red Roo. Thanks for the sticking with us and the efforts to keep us informed. Even if some of us are ungrateful sods.

 

[Alanslegal]

There has been a lot of comment in regards to Platinum, particularly in relation to points earn (given the changes at Silver and Gold levels). I think it is worth noting that a 100% points bonus is one of the most generous bonuses in the region. If you compare the Platinum Status bonus to the top ten international carriers in the Australian market, specifically QF, SQ, NZ, JQ, EK, DJ, CX, MH and TG (noting D7 doesn't have a FFP), we have the most generous Status bonus by far. Some of these carriers do not even have an elite earn bonus. Acknowledge that redemption pricing varies across programs and the value equation will vary from individual to individual.

Furthermore, the improvements to cabin bonuses also improve points earn, and hence earn/burn ratios for redemptions. We felt this was a way we could better recognise the contribution from premium cabins, in addition to the status earn recognition accorded. Whilst the increases to Cabin bonuses are applicable to all tiers, in general, they impact the Platinum tier far more significantly, due to the cabins typically flown by Platinums.

In relation to Economy, we have particularly generous Economy earn, particularly when there has been a industry trend towards reducing or even not having earn in Discount Economy (some of our competitors have five levels of Economy earn). Referring to the list of QF, SQ, NZ, JQ, EK, DJ, CX, MH and TG, ask yourself, how many of these carriers still offer 1 point per mile flown in Discount Economy, particularly on low or sale fares?

Whilst again I appreciate your intepretation on this, I still hold a healthy dose of sceptism in what QF FF is really doing and what the next round of enhancements are going to be.

You may be able to spin points earn as a benefit, and compare it to your other airline competitors, but points earn rates is not an issue here. The earn rate has been 1 points per 1 mile Butt In Seat for a number of years and no changes have been made this round. The main changes now is that 1) enjoy more points if you have your BIS premium cabin and 2) if you are PS and SG then we'll give you an extra % ff points. I have no beef against PS or SG's but if you are a WP which flies in economy - and many do - then you get bugger all.

But more importantly earning a whole bunch of points means ZILCH when it's soooo hard to use them. Firstly, the QF FF program is now commonly called a frequent spend program and I am competing against guys who rack up tens of thousands of points per month running their business through it. Secondly, very little premium seats are released at the Classic Award level and QF can applaud and spin the introduction of Any Seat Award all they want, because I ain't sure going to blow over a million points just for that J seat to Los Angeles. Hands up if anyone here has? Thirdly, if I want to fly premium at a classic award level, I am literally booking 12 months in advance. For eg. my recent classic award booking 2 x J seats LAX-SYD for travel on 7 March 2012 (we're in seat 11A,B if you need to look it up) was booked on 20 March 2011. If I waited a few weeks later I am certain those seats would be snapped up.

Regardless, just because QF feels they have the most generous program out there, doesn't mean to get all complacent now - or just do enough to keep QF flyers from moving to another carrier. And there is only one reason that QF should be thanking their lucky stars ..... and ironically that star, is Virgin Australia not yet part of Star Alliance yet.

 

[ronone69]

I have not read all the comments here (too many!!) BUT the one big thing missing is any incentive for long term Platinum FF. Most business reward their top customers for years of custom. As a 10+ year Platinum FF I have watched my benefits reduced by almost every change QF has made. I will never earn 3,600 status credits in a year to get Platinum One membership BUT I have earned over 2,000 status credits every year for over 10 years - 3,600 v's 20,000+ - just a bit of a difference. These changes are the first I can remember when I actually get some additional benefits. Yet I fly with QF year after year after year. When the HELL is QF going to recognise the long term value of their premium customers ? When are they going to add Platinum for Life ? When is QF going to promote long term Platinum Members to Chairman's Lounge (for life)? All this other stuff is great BUT fails to recognise QF's most loyal long term customers. :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

PS Best points conversion is SQ with discounts for early booking in any case. I use this al lthe time now.... But SQ also does not really recognise the long term value of customers although they have given me $1,000's to spend on inflight shoping and continue to give me more every year......

 

[MatF]

Red Roo,

Granted that what you said above is true, what you need to understand is that you have effectively diluted the worth of Platinum by making silver and gold better earn rates. That is what people are upset about.

I'm one (of many I know persnally) who are Platinum by flying 95% of the time in Economy (business if I fly myself or upgrade on points). So that is a lot of hard slogging. I'll get Platinum again this year - however I may decide to direct my flying to Virgin instead as there is no tangible benefits. Lifting PG to 2400 has put it out of my reach. Personally I would rather stick to one carrier as I have done to date, but give me something tangible to do so (63 of my 66 flights were on QF metal, the other 3 were CX and 9W).

I am sure you can see that the last 2 rounds of "enchancements" have only taken away from Platinums (PG bar raising and Anytime access removal) but given nothing tangible back.

The other back move for your lower tier members is resetting the "loyalty bonus". Bascially it means only Gold and above will ever get it - or a silver that gets halfway to gold. In the case of someone like my daughter who flies with me on occasion she will never see a "bonus" as you will reset it every year. if you want to cap the number of bonuses per year fine, but let it roll over per year as it does now. Then you look after those smaller fliers that may not fly all the time, but they still get a bit of a kickback every few years.

I do thank you for spending time on here and engaging us. We may seem hard to please, however there are things that do make us happy.

A suggestion from me, if you have ideas for the program, run a survey here to gauge responses. At the end of the day you will gain valuable feedback before announcing "exciting news" and ending up getting negative responses here and on places like Facebook (which I feel was a PR disaster for QF)

Of course I am more than happy to volunteer for the Advisory panel..

Cheers,

Nick

I agree 100% with the above - if I could have expressed it as well myself, I would have.

I also appreciate your participation and interaction, Red Roo. Honestly, I do - it's a valuable opportunity for both parties, but I think QF's interaction with its customers here could be better managed.

I guess when I look at my situation, my ~100 full flex Y flights a year are all 1,000pt minimum, 20SC flights. Total cost is over $25,000/yr for those 100,000pts and 2000SCs, but at the end of the day, points don't drive me - I value my status as a mechanism for making my all-too-frequent flying experience more enjoyable, and that's where I feel the "solid" WP member has been effectively going backwards over the last couple of years. I just can't see that much value in being WP over SG anymore - even ignoring points earning rate.

 

[Red Roo]

Firstly, thank you all for your comments.

Firstly, the QF FF program is now commonly called a frequent spend program and I am competing against guys who rack up tens of thousands of points per month running their business through it.

One important point to note is that, as a Platinum Frequent Flyer, we do offer this feature (full details at the link).

Preferential access to selected Qantas Classic Award seats

Qantas provides preferential access, when available, to selected Qantas Classic Award seats to Silver, Gold and Platinum Frequent Flyers. On selected flights, preferential access for Gold and Platinum members may be above the access available to Silver and Bronze members+.

This is a benefit which is earned via tier status that is earned from flying.

 

[epsc]

Balance is a wonderful thing. Please all try to be frank - shortchanging WP's is not just a whinge, it is central to the most loyal customers QF has got. I couldn't agree more about being happy that Q, through Red Roo, is participating in this dialogue, but the difference, Q, between 'Red Roo is there to listen' and 'I hear you and will respond', is immense. Once the warm and fuzzy I get from being heard dissipates, looking at the bottom line (as we are repeatedly told Q has to do, understandably), the question must be asked (and, I suggest, MUST be answered) 'what's in it for me? Why am I getting screwed in return for my loyalty?'

 

[Fantic125]

<snip> the question must be asked (and, I suggest, MUST be answered) 'what's in it for me? Why am I getting screwed in return for my loyalty?'

If you're getting screwed, then you can't really complain you're getting nothing from it!

 

[epsc]

Flippancy has it's place in life, but - we spend a lot of time in the air. Some of us, myself included, spend our own money. We are entitled to ask, what is the answer to my question, Qantas?

 

[Grooba]

So in summary, QF doesn't know:
1. what the benefits are
2. how many people it will apply to
3. whether or not it will require additional QF status credits

Good one, QF!

Virgin Australia, now's the time for a status match!

I emailed DJ today asking for a status match (my colleague a few months ago emailed them out of the blue and got matched) and they politely declined.

 

[Fantic125]

Flippancy has it's place in life, but - we spend a lot of time in the air. Some of us, myself included, spend our own money. We are entitled to ask, what is the answer to my question, Qantas?

epsc, you're abolutely correct.
Last calendar year I spent 603 hours BIS - the equivalent to 75 x 8 hour working days in planes.
So far this year, 169 hours BIS - 21 working days.


The answer is, you're not getting a lot for your loyalty.

 

[russ]

I emailed DJ today asking for a status match (my colleague a few months ago emailed them out of the blue and got matched) and they politely declined.

Argh! They are missing out on a huge opportunity!

Isn't it interesting how credit card companies offer you incentives to switch yet airlines offer you golden/platinum/unobtainium handcuffs to stay?

 

[epsc]

But - it need not be this way. Sure, my perspective is individual/anecdotal only, but : WHY, why, nothing for us?

What WILL appeal to us is if Qf shows BY ACTION that they are listening and will adjust accordingly. What they need to take on board is the reality that loyal customers don't want to change (the marketing people have a very good grasp on that!), but WILL, if sufficiently dis-incentivised. Already we see LG's looking elsewhere, and why not? Yes, this is a marketing issue QF, and yes, we understand that what matters commercially is $$$, but - try really hard to get the marketing right. Because we'll walk. End of story.

 

[geoffl]

Red Roo, Interesting changes, but, somehow I thought by definition your Platinum Members actually were important to Qantas, obviously, my mistake, NO increase in Status Credits for your highest earning Platinum Flyers, OK, you now have finally got me to look at other programs that reward loyalty. I have been Platinum for around 15 years, I am a Life Gold, and a Member since the late 80's, my Wife is also Platinum and Qantas snubs us. Fair enough, your call, but you will lose Platinum Members.
I have written several times offering suggestions on how Qantas can reward long serving Platinum & Life Gold Members, but you guys just don't want to hear. Whoever you use for Market Research should be punted, quickly !!

 

[moa999]

BUT I have earned over 2,000 status credits every year for over 10 years - 3,600 v's 20,000+ - just a bit of a difference. These changes are the first I can remember when I actually get some additional benefits. Yet I fly with QF year after year after year. When the HELL is QF going to recognise the long term value of their premium customers ? .

I am somewhat amazed at this comment. Sure WPs have lost a few things like anytime access and International exit rows for free but....
New SYD and MEL First International Lounges
The Domestic Business lounges
Access to Domestic Exit Row seat selection in advance

Feel free to skip the First/ Business lounge and go back to the old school like it was 5 yrs ago.

 

[ajca]

I am somewhat amazed at this comment. Sure WPs have lost a few things like anytime access and International exit rows for free but....
New SYD and MEL First International Lounges
The Domestic Business lounges
Access to Domestic Exit Row seat selection in advance

People do not react symmetrically to loss and gain.

 

[draper]

Question to the Suits on the Friday homebound leg:
You are a Qantas Club Member (Life member)
You are of the Lowly BRONZE status (flying with other airlines for past few years)
You book an International Flight with Qantas (Down the back in Economy)
Question: As a Qantas Club Member do you have to pay $20 to select a seat?
and is this $20 to be paid for each sector?

Remember : You are a Qantas Club member (fully paid up)
Your Staus is BRONZE (not silver or above)

Answer: is YES

It is all in the fine print (try and locate the answer on the Qantas www site). For those of us at the bottom end of the status ladder it is no wonder why we are deserting Qantas and chosing other full service carriers.
Enjoy the flight home.

 

[markis10]

Argh! They are missing out on a huge opportunity!

Isn't it interesting how credit card companies offer you incentives to switch yet airlines offer you golden/platinum/unobtainium handcuffs to stay?

Or are those that missed out on the earlier offer missing a huge opportunity, I have yet to earn my DJ Gold status but I am enjoying its benefits as I move my travel to DJ given the lack of incentives beyond SG in the QFF land.

 

[Trivalve]

I'm a bit bemused by the lack of any recognition in this new deal for WPs but in reality the current setup is reasonable. However, as a long-term QFF (unbroken since 1989) I think there could be a bit more recognition in that area. I am life Silver but I had done a heck of lot of miles before that came in. 21 years plus, you'd think that lifetime Gold would be fair enough for that?

 

[dajop]

Feel free to skip the First/ Business lounge and go back to the old school like it was 5 yrs ago.

Actually I would have happily traded the First/Business lounges for the old school lounges if other things were like they were 5 years ago .... if it meant I could access a lounge whether or not I was flying QF/OW, if exit rows were free and could be allocated preferentially to WP's, if WP's could still request (and often receive) award availability on heavily booked flights without paying a "service fee", if they could ring QF and change dates/times on award bookings for free (instead of up to 11,500 pts), if upgrades credits were issued based on amount of SC's and any paid fare could be upgraded, if I could still book an RTW award in J class for 240,000 pts + $500 in surcharges instead of 280,000 pts + $1500 in surchages.... etc, and I am sure a few other things as well.

Its a game of give and take. And I am happy with these because it makes me feel that I made the right decision not to try to achieve WP any more, SG will do just fine.

But it would be interesting to do the math on the before and after for different travel patterns, as I don't think the points difference between WP & SG has reduced as much as people are making out.

 

[oz_mark]

People do not react symmetrically to loss and gain.

...or, as in this case, neither loss nor gain, but someone else did better :shock: