Qantas Classic Reward & Upgrade Devaluation on 5 August 2025

[levelnine]

The original post (QFF classic F to LAX) was about inflation - carrier charges have gone up. That's literally the topic, regardless of what you identify it to be.
Just because you wrongly thought it was about something else, doesn't make you right.

Your dishonesty in indicating I suggested no alternatives.. you literally quoted my post that contained some alternatives.
You should be banned from this forum for intentionally causing harm and being a liar.

Putting all the off-topic personal attacks to one side, the topic is whether $600 in carrier charges is a bargain or not.

When one takes into account the fact that competing award programs offer the exact same flights for not only lower carrier charges but also fewer points, the answer is clearly no.

Comparing a F award ticket to a F cash fare is falling for the oldest trick in the frequent flyer book — 'look I got 10c per point from my points by booking this one-way F award'. There's a reason no one takes those comparisons seriously, and assigns them to the category of 'click bait'.

 

[mviy]

Even after the devaluation I have enough points to fly J return to LHR ~3 times. I just need the seats to be made available for the times I choose to fly and not get taken by other members first.

If QF finds that demand for points seats drops too much they can re-evaluate whether to do something about that e.g. make it easier to earn more points in one way or another.

I think there’s probably many people like me with more points than they can spend easily.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

I just need the seats to be made available for the times I choose to fly and not get taken by other members first.

And there's another full, lengthy thread on that.
Basically, now that QF drop award seats at unpredictable random times - often as close as a few days out from TOT - it's incredibly hard to snare those elusive seats. Back in the golden pre-COVID era, it was typically 353 days out. Just log on when the date swings around (set your calendar alert!) and bang! You're in.

But like I said...off thread topic. See this AFF article

Reward Seat Release Patterns Have Changed Fundamentally

Qantas no longer releases most Classic Reward seats on international flights 353 days in advance. Instead, airlines are releasing frequent flyer redemption seats in batches closer to departure.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Kangol]

They simply decide it's not worth the effort collecting points as it no longer makes sense economically factoring in the increased costs & limitations on reward seats. There are limits on price increases on an item people don't actually need - we aren't talking break and milk here.

They disengage with the loyalty program.
Pretty simple.

Notice how you ignored the question about what you personally assign as greed.
Answer it and let's see if that's based on rationality.

Customers are disengaging with QFF? Do you mean their profits have shrivelled to almost zero?

 

[Kangol]

Putting all the off-topic personal attacks to one side, the topic is whether $600 in carrier charges is a bargain or not.

When one takes into account the fact that competing award programs offer the exact same flights for not only lower carrier charges but also fewer points, the answer is clearly no.

Comparing a F award ticket to a F cash fare is falling for the oldest trick in the frequent flyer book — 'look I got 10c per point from my points by booking this one-way F award'. There's a reason no one takes those comparisons seriously, and assigns them to the category of 'click bait'.

The average QFF member who is lucky enough to get an F award to LAX (including non WP/P1) is not in the same position to join another program and earn to the level where they can get an F award, if available.

Just because it's offered, doesn't mean it can be booked.

If the QFF member has to pick between using QFF points and $600 for an LAX F award, vs not booking it using a points currency they don't have and cannot convert to easily/within the rules, where availability is even more scarce than for QFF in general, $600 is a bargain.

Sitting in an F seat vs not sitting in the seat. Guess which one people would pick?

 

[MelbFlyer]

Yep, nowadays it's much more random.

You've probably got a better chance of finding business reward seats either within 1-2 weeks of your intended dates (I suspect as they're unsold), or at some other random time, instead of 200-300+ days from departure.

I managed to find my upcoming desired business reward seat around 80-90 days from departure, but I suspect that was more due to someone cancelling / changing their trip instead of Qantas doing a mass release as it was only 1 business reward seat on the day I wanted.

Sometimes spending half your day each day on the Qantas website, as frustrating as it can be at times, pays off in the end.

That same reward seat now costs 82.1k pts instead of 68.4k pts, and taxes are probably higher now too.

 

[levelnine]

The average QFF member who is lucky enough to get an F award to LAX (including non WP/P1) is not in the same position to join another program and earn to the level where they can get an F award, if available.

Just because it's offered, doesn't mean it can be booked.

If the QFF member has to pick between using QFF points and $600 for an LAX F award, vs not booking it using a points currency they don't have and cannot convert to easily/within the rules, where availability is even more scarce than for QFF in general, $600 is a bargain.

Sitting in an F seat vs not sitting in the seat. Guess which one people would pick?

If you're going to dismiss other award programs as a relevant points of comparison because it is difficult to attain points in that program, then you also have to dismiss the cash price as a relevant point of comparison because the 'average QFF member' would never spend $20,000 on a single airplane ticket.

They're both meaningless comparisons by this logic.

If we're speculating about the 'average QFF member', my guess would be that they collect frequent flyer points in the expectation/hope of a free flight. Having to pay $600 each way for their award flight means it is far from free — indeed, it now costs approximately the same as a cash economy ticket — and, therefore, not a bargain. Especially after they have likely paid hundreds of dollars in credit cards annual fees to attain those points or foregone hundreds of dollars in savings on their Woolworths shop by choosing points over cash back.

 

[flyguy77]

Notice how you ignored the question about what you personally assign as greed.
Answer it and let's see if that's based on rationality.

Customers are disengaging with QFF? Do you mean their profits have shrivelled to almost zero?

Oh sorry I didn't realise I had to respond to the demand of answering your questions...

Greed is doubling carrier charges and charging significantly more than all other carriers and reward programs on the exact same routes. Fiji, American, United - all lower.

I never said people are currently disengaging - people WILL disengage if there is no outsized value for the effort involved and limited availability compared to just paying for flights.

There's still a huge pile of Business/First Class seats available to Europe and America from their recent points planes....perhaps people are already baulking at these prices.

 

[MelbFlyer]

There's still a huge pile of Business/First Class seats available to Europe and America from their recent points planes....perhaps people are already baulking at these prices.

You'd be quite surprised - I'm part of a few FB groups where the topic is regarding collecting points.

There's still surprisingly a lot of people out there who have 6 figures of points but aren't aviation pundits like the most of us here and aren't in the know of how to redeem their points for flights, let alone even knew about the impending devaluation of their points and increases etc.

I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who saved up 75k pts in order to redeem perhaps their first time business class reward seat, only to be shocked to find out it now costs 90k pts plus higher taxes.

 

[Aeryn]

The points planes aren't at very convenient times.

Whilst Im not happy that J award fees have increased, I would have preferred they did smaller increase across all classes (after all most points redemptions are in whY) they are still a lot less than the fees for J seats on EK and QR.

As I earn points naturally through my usual spending; as long as the taxes for J redemptions dont exceed the cost of a whY seat then I will still redeem them.

 

[kamchatsky]

There's still a huge pile of Business/First Class seats available to Europe and America from their recent points planes....perhaps people are already baulking at these prices.

Well those point planes are in off season so people just cannot take time off to go at those dates. If they have points plane on Christmas and New Year, or northern summer season, watch it all get booked out within a day.

QF did say that this is first of a series of points plane offering, so hopefully QF will have better timings for next points planes. But knowing QF, they probably won’t.

 

[flyguy77]

The points planes aren't at very convenient times.

Well those point planes are in off season so people just cannot take time off to go at those dates.

Well yes...

That's typically how Qantas reward seats work - filling seats that would otherwise be empty.

 

[Kangol]

If you're going to dismiss other award programs as a relevant points of comparison because it is difficult to attain points in that program, then you also have to dismiss the cash price as a relevant point of comparison because the 'average QFF member' would never spend $20,000 on a single airplane ticket.

They're both meaningless comparisons by this logic.

If we're speculating about the 'average QFF member', my guess would be that they collect frequent flyer points in the expectation/hope of a free flight. Having to pay $600 each way for their award flight means it is far from free — indeed, it now costs approximately the same as a cash economy ticket — and, therefore, not a bargain. Especially after they have likely paid hundreds of dollars in credit cards annual fees to attain those points or foregone hundreds of dollars in savings on their Woolworths shop by choosing points over cash back.

There are plenty of average QFF members, certainly that I know, who have the means to pay $20k for an F seat, where it would not impact their finances and lifestyle. Yet they don't, because they can't justify it. They will and do pay $600 in taxes.
Plenty of revenue F pax book the F cabin, too. This is neither new nor a surprise that people pay for F.

If you had to pay $600 either way, and had the choice of Y vs F, then F is still a bargain.

QFF points are not a transferable currency to AS/AA, that's the point.
It's not like converting AUD to USD.
If you have plenty of AUD and want to buy the same product via a cheaper USD channel, you can easily convert to USD through various means where there is no barrier to entry.

If you have plenty of QFF points and want to buy the same product via a cheaper AS/AA channel, the absence of the alternative currency is the barrier to entry.
The cheaper taxes of an AS/AA redemption for a QFF member wanting an F seat is irrelevant to them because it is unavailable to them - the most important issue is whether they get the ticket or not.
You clearly have forgotten this is a QFF thread. If you want to compare programs with different parameters, start a different thread.

Oh sorry I didn't realise I had to respond to the demand of answering your questions...

Greed is doubling carrier charges and charging significantly more than all other carriers and reward programs on the exact same routes. Fiji, American, United - all lower.

I never said people are currently disengaging - people WILL disengage if there is no outsized value for the effort involved and limited availability compared to just paying for flights.

There's still a huge pile of Business/First Class seats available to Europe and America from their recent points planes....perhaps people are already baulking at these prices.

The point is if you participate in a forum such as this and cannot properly respond, you have nothing to offer and shouldn't be a part of this society.

According to you, greed is 2.0x carrier charges. That means 1.9x carrier charges is not greed.
What does "significant" mean and why is it defined by you?

You would be perfect for the Occupy movement, protesting against corporate greed. See where that got them

 

[levelnine]

There are plenty of average QFF members, certainly that I know, who have the means to pay $20k for an F seat, where it would not impact their finances and lifestyle. Yet they don't, because they can't justify it. They will and do pay $600 in taxes.
Plenty of revenue F pax book the F cabin, too. This is neither new nor a surprise that people pay for F.

These are not 'average QFF members', whether measured by the mode, median or mean. It is a common mistake to extrapolate from one's personal experience and think that represents the average.

By all means, feel free to say that your small group of acquaintances consider an F award ticket to be a bargain compared to cash prices.

But my group of churning friends consider it to be a rip-off because we collect hundreds of thousands of AA and AS miles each year for free. Indeed, a number of us booked up F award tickets using AA and AS miles during the recent release of award seats. Now that was an undeniable bargain, paying less than half what any member of the QFF program paid.

 

[flyguy77]

The point is if you participate in a forum such as this and cannot properly respond, you have nothing to offer and shouldn't be a part of this society.

According to you, greed is 2.0x carrier charges. That means 1.9x carrier charges is not greed.
What does "significant" mean and why is it defined by you?

You would be perfect for the Occupy movement, protesting against corporate greed. See where that got them

Yeah, I’m done here — better things to do than entertain these pointless arguments before admin has to pull you back into line again for reverting to insults instead of actual reasoning.

 

[Kangol]

These are not 'average QFF members', whether measured by the mode, median or mean. It is a common mistake to extrapolate from one's personal experience and think that represents the average.

By all means, feel free to say that your small group of acquaintances consider an F award ticket to be a bargain compared to cash prices.

But my group of churning friends consider it to be a rip-off because we collect hundreds of thousands of AA and AS miles each year for free. Indeed, a number of us booked up F award tickets using AA and AS miles during the recent release of award seats. Now that was an undeniable bargain, paying less than half what any member of the QFF program paid.

They are not average, they are below the average - infrequent flyers who never advance beyond NB, points mainly earned from regular non-flying activity, low engagement, minimal understanding of the flying/points "game". The opposite of your points savvy AFF member. Look at the millions of QFF members and think about what the mode, median, mean would likely represent. Now look at the level below that. This is the group where $600 for F is a bargain.

You've literally disproven your own argument by describing you and your AA/AS points churner friends. That article was never about AA/AS churners who understand the points game. Your mistake is that you extrapolated from personal experience to think that AA/AS group represents the average, or below average QFF member that the article was referring to in the first place.

If you had communicated properly to begin with, this would never have occurred. Errors like yours from lazy communication are common.

 

[levelnine]

They are not average, they are below the average - infrequent flyers who never advance beyond NB, points mainly earned from regular non-flying activity, low engagement, minimal understanding of the flying/points "game". The opposite of your points savvy AFF member. Look at the millions of QFF members and think about what the mode, median, mean would likely represent. Now look at the level below that. This is the group where $600 for F is a bargain.

There are 16 million QFF members. The 'average QFF member' has 73,000 points — not even enough to afford half of one-way on an F award ticket. The 'average QFF member' is not even remotely close to having the capacity to spend $20,000 on First class airplane tickets — that would be more than they would spend on their entire holiday.

Your tiny, tiny sample of acquaintances that has the capacity to spend $20,000 on plane tickets and has 190,000 points to spend on First class award tickets shows your group is on another galaxy compared to the 'average QFF member'.

 

[Kangol]

There are 16 million QFF members. The 'average QFF member' has 73,000 points — not even enough to afford half of one-way on an F award ticket. The 'average QFF member' is not even remotely close to having the capacity to spend $20,000 on First class airplane tickets — that would be more than they would spend on their entire holiday.

Your tiny, tiny sample of acquaintances that has the capacity to spend $20,000 on plane tickets and has 190,000 points to spend on First class award tickets shows your group is on another galaxy compared to the 'average QFF member'.

The average points balance changes daily; to believe that the figure is true to this day is comical.
This is not about the average balance for all members, it's about the low interest (below average) member having the opportunity to use the points they've saved for a long time and spend $600 for an F ticket. When that type of person takes that opportunity, to them it's a bargain. Because you are not that person, you can't speak on their behalf.

 

[levelnine]

The average points balance changes daily; to believe that the figure is true to this day is comical.
This is not about the average balance for all members, it's about the low interest (below average) member having the opportunity to use the points they've saved for a long time and spend $600 for an F ticket. When that type of person takes that opportunity, to them it's a bargain. Because you are not that person, you can't speak on their behalf.

The figure is from July 2025. The fact that you think the 'average points balance changes daily' to any extent that is material to this conversation demonstrates a lack of understanding about how statistics operate at a population of that size.

Additionally, there would not be more than a couple of hundred people in Australia that are (a) willing to spend $20,000 on a First class cash ticket, (b) have over 190,000 QFF points available to redeem on a First class award ticket, and (c) have 'low interest' in the QFF program. To suggest this is the 'average QFF member' is, to use your term, 'comical'.

As I said before, it is perfectly fine to say you know a few people that fit into this category. For them, it truly is a bargain. Good for them. But this is not even remotely representative of the QFF membership base.

It's like saying Elon Musk got a bargain because someone offered a private yacht previously on sale for $750M to him for $700M. He saved $50M. Bargain!!! The only person who would describe that as a bargain is a fellow billionaire or someone using the term 'bargain' ironically.

 

[Kangol]

The figure is from July 2025. The fact that you think the 'average points balance changes daily' to any extent that is material to this conversation demonstrates a lack of understanding about how statistics operate at a population of that size.

Additionally, there would not be more than a couple of hundred people in Australia that are (a) willing to spend $20,000 on a First class cash ticket, (b) have over 190,000 QFF points available to redeem on a First class award ticket, and (c) have 'low interest' in the QFF program. To suggest this is the 'average QFF member' is, to use your term, 'comical'.

As I said before, it is perfectly fine to say you know a few people that fit into this category. For them, it truly is a bargain. Good for them. But this is not even remotely representative of the QFF membership base.

It's like saying Elon Musk got a bargain because someone offered a private yacht previously on sale for $750M to him for $700M. He saved $50M. Bargain!!! The only person who would describe that as a bargain is a fellow billionaire or someone using the term 'bargain' ironically.

Suddenly you are so certain of the precise number of people who fit a certain category ("a couple of hundred people in Australia"), yet you have no data, no proof and no idea that your belief is not the same thing as the truth.

It's taken you several rounds of backpedaling, diverting the topic and fabricating unrelated arguments to finally admit what was stated in the first place. See bold text.
If you had communicated properly in the first place, you wouldn't have needed to use straw man arguments or make false accusation - about a group who are purported to be representative of the entire QFF membership base.

Your posts have value for the community however, they are a great example of how communication failures are presented in an English language forum specific to a frequent flyer loyalty program, where others can learn from these written errors. You should be applauded for this.