Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[gilldo]

Some quick questions re the 'rules' for OW RTW fares, specifically around the folliowing:
- maximum 16 legs/sectors
- only transit a city twice
- plus you can stopover for more than 24 hours in any city only once (as well as two transits in the same city)
- miles between cities that are land/sea sectors also count

Q1. So I'm in ADL, and flying to the US West Coast to start with. Given I can book any fare straight through to LAX with QF say, is this considered one sector or two (ADL-SYD-LAX)? I'm assuming it's two sectors, as the flight number changes and we transit in SYD for 90 mins.

Q2. If I transit a city three times (ie. spend under 24 hours there), but don't have a stopover there, is that OK? Or would I have to lengthen a transit and turn it into a stopover if I wanted to keep the same itinerary?

Q3. If I land in one city, have a land sector to another, and depart again from the second city, which city is the stopover deemed to be in? The first, or the second (I'm assuming the first)? Am I also deemed to be transiting or stopping over in the 2nd city?

One of the challenges in doing this in the USA/Canada is you only have the one internal airline to choose from (AA), and while they have 10 hubs (LAX/PHX/DFW/ORD/MIA/CLT/JFK/LGA/PHL/DCA), there are only two in the western part of the country (LAX/PHX), making it a challenge to stay within the rules. Thankfully, AA offer flight options via different hubs to many of the same places, but this doesn't always provide the most efficient travel arrangements.

 

[Basaka]

Hey everyone, I'm thinking of doing a redemption - 1 PAX, J class, WP

Timing will probably be end of Nov 2020 - start of Jan 2021

Thinking of something along this:
SYD - SIN end of Nov (QF)
SIN - HND/NRT (JL)
HND - LAX (JL) - first week of Dec
LAX - USH (AA/LATAM if they're still in OW) - mid Dec
Cruise to Antarctica
USH - SCL (LATAM)
SCL - SYD (LATAM/QF) - Probably after Christmas/around new years?

How difficult would it be to redeem this given I'm a single PAX with WP?

I'm currently 80k points short but am thinking of signing up for the Citibank card to get the points by next February hopefully which will allow me to do the redemption. Hopefully this will give me enough lead time.

I also heard before that I can't search JL reward seats on QF website but uncertain if that has been updated now.

Cheers

 

[aikman]

Some quick questions re the 'rules' for OW RTW fares, specifically around the folliowing:
- maximum 16 legs/sectors
- only transit a city twice
- plus you can stopover for more than 24 hours in any city only once (as well as two transits in the same city)
- miles between cities that are land/sea sectors also count

Q1. So I'm in ADL, and flying to the US West Coast to start with. Given I can book any fare straight through to LAX with QF say, is this considered one sector or two (ADL-SYD-LAX)? I'm assuming it's two sectors, as the flight number changes and we transit in SYD for 90 mins.

Q2. If I transit a city three times (ie. spend under 24 hours there), but don't have a stopover there, is that OK? Or would I have to lengthen a transit and turn it into a stopover if I wanted to keep the same itinerary?

Q3. If I land in one city, have a land sector to another, and depart again from the second city, which city is the stopover deemed to be in? The first, or the second (I'm assuming the first)? Am I also deemed to be transiting or stopping over in the 2nd city?

One of the challenges in doing this in the USA/Canada is you only have the one internal airline to choose from (AA), and while they have 10 hubs (LAX/PHX/DFW/ORD/MIA/CLT/JFK/LGA/PHL/DCA), there are only two in the western part of the country (LAX/PHX), making it a challenge to stay within the rules. Thankfully, AA offer flight options via different hubs to many of the same places, but this doesn't always provide the most efficient travel arrangements.

Q1. Two
Q2. Not OK. As you already know, only two transits are allowed. A third visit must be a stopover.
Q3. Both cities are considered as stopover cities. This is only relevant in that you cannot stop over in either city again for the rest of itinerary although you can still transit.

 

[gilldo]

Q3. Both cities are considered as stopover cities. This is only relevant in that you cannot stop over in either city again for the rest of itinerary although you can still transit.

Really? This is definitely not the answer I expected.

This completely knocks our planning, as we have a number of short, one-ways that turned what I thought was a 4 stop trip into 7 stops!

 

[gilldo]

Q3. Both cities are considered as stopover cities. This is only relevant in that you cannot stop over in either city again for the rest of itinerary although you can still transit.

Just had a look around some of the other advisory sites, and found this article which illustrates the opposite (admitted written in the 'old money' pre-Sep 2019 points value).

Are there any opinions out there that can confirm or debunk this?

How to fly round-the-world in business class with Qantas Points

The Qantas oneworld award lets you fly round-the-world in business class for 280,000 points. It's one of the best uses of Qantas Points. Here's how to book!

thehighlife.com.au

Specific text as follows is the key point:

"If you make some land segments on your own, you can actually visit more than five destinations. That’s because when you land in one city and take off on your next flight from another city, it doesn’t count as two stopovers – just one. The land segment is counted towards the 16 maximum and the distance towards the 35,000 mile maximum.
To illustrate: here’s an example where you fly from Sydney to Tokyo (first stop), make your own way to Hong Kong, fly to Helsinki (second stop), make your own way to Paris, fly to Marrakesh (third stop), make your own way to Casablanca, fly to New York City (fourth stop), make your own way to Montreal, fly to Lima (fifth stop) make your own way to Santiago, and fly home."

 

[aikman]

Really? This is definitely not the answer I expected.

This completely knocks our planning, as we have a number of short, one-ways that turned what I thought was a 4 stop trip into 7 stops!

For clarity, a surface segment only uses 1 of the 5 allowed stops. If you had a surface segment for each of your 5 stops then you will have stopped over at 10 cities. Edit: which is all within the rules. Some people ignore the second part of a surface segment as if it never existed and they try to stop over there a second time which is not allowed.

 

[gilldo]

Heres what were looking at:

ADL-SYD-LAX-ANC (3 segments - stopover #1)
ANC-YYC (separate paid flight segment 4)
YYC-ORD-BOS (2 segments of 6 - stopover #2)
BOS-CLT-SEA (2 segments of 8 - stopover #3)
SEA-PDX (land segment 9)
PDX-PHX-LAS (2 segments of 11 - stopover #4)
LAS-PHX (land segment 12)
PHX-LAX-HKG-ADL (3 segments of 15)

15 segments, 4 stopovers, 30879 miles
QF/AA/CX used
one spare segment up our sleeve if we can't get back to ADL direct from HKG

If I apply land segment = stopover rule, then I'd have 7 stopovers (see previous conflicting post).

My way of getting around this (only if I have to) would be to eliminate the two land segments and fly in and out of both SEA and PHX or LAS, which would get it down to 5.

 

[aikman]

That itinerary looks good.

 

[gilldo]

For clarity, a surface segment only uses 1 of the 5 allowed stops. If you had a surface segment for each of your 5 stops then you will have stopped over at 10 cities. Edit: which is all within the rules. Some people ignore the second part of a surface segment as if it never existed and they try to stop over there a second time which is not allowed.

Are you suggesting that while the surface segment only counts as one stopover, that it counts both the arriving and departing cities as stopover cities (ie. you can't have another stopover at either)?

 

[vetrade]

I think I can clarify the transit/stopover conundrum. I'm sure the second city of a land segment is not classified as a stopover at all - it is a transit.
I can give this personal example:
A few years ago we did a J RTW and had stopovers in JNB, CPT, CDG, MUC, NY, YVR, YYC, LAS.
We flew into JNB (stopover 1) then took a paid flight to CPT (unofficial stopover). Then we flew CPT-JNB-DOH-CDG (all on the J reward) - stopover 2 in Paris.
We then flew ORY - MAD - MUC (stopover 3).
Then MUC - MAD - JFK (stopover 4) before flying JFK - YVR (stopover 5)
We then had paid flights YVR - YYC - LAS - LAX (unofficial stopovers in YYC and LAS). We only paid for the LAS-LAX flight because there were no reward seats available - otherwise we could have included it in the OW itinerary.
We didn't stop in LA - just connected from LAS - LAX - MEL.

Under the OW RTW reward we had stopovers in JNB, Paris, Munich, NY and Vancouver. The stopovers in CPT, YYC and LAS didn't count

 

[Abrcrmb]

Thanks again to the tips and tricks in this thread.

We had to get creative on our 6th and 7th, 318K redemptions this time around, scraping in at just 168 miles under the 35,000 mile limit!

2 x J for HWNTBA and SWMBO (except for the BOM>CMB leg where one of us [guess who that might be?] is in Y)

#6+#7;

SYD>HKG>BOM (QF+CX) / BOM>CMB (UL) / CMB>CGK (UL) / ground sector / PER>KUL>DOH>LHR (MH+QR+BA) / LHR>ORD (BA) /ground sector / SFO>SYD (QF) - $2K in taxes.

Effectively two separate holidays on the one itinerary, India and Sri Lanka, then UK and USA 5 months later.

One wedding in India, one wedding in the UK and driving Route 66 as a bucket list item on the way home!

Took just 20 minutes on the phone, including the CSRs learning that you can stopover/depart the same country twice on this type of itinerary. Very happy with the QFF CSRs today.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Heres what were looking at:

ADL-SYD-LAX-ANC (3 segments - stopover #1)
ANC-YYC (separate paid flight segment 4)
YYC-ORD-BOS (2 segments of 6 - stopover #2)
BOS-CLT-SEA (2 segments of 8 - stopover #3)
SEA-PDX (land segment 9)
PDX-PHX-LAS (2 segments of 11 - stopover #4)
LAS-PHX (land segment 12)
PHX-LAX-HKG-ADL (3 segments of 15)

15 segments, 4 stopovers, 30879 miles
QF/AA/CX used
one spare segment up our sleeve if we can't get back to ADL direct from HKG

If I apply land segment = stopover rule, then I'd have 7 stopovers (see previous conflicting post).

My way of getting around this (only if I have to) would be to eliminate the two land segments and fly in and out of both SEA and PHX or LAS, which would get it down to 5.

I think I can clarify the transit/stopover conundrum. I'm sure the second city of a land segment is not classified as a stopover at all - it is a transit.
I can give this personal example:
A few years ago we did a J RTW and had stopovers in JNB, CPT, CDG, MUC, NY, YVR, YYC, LAS.
We flew into JNB (stopover 1) then took a paid flight to CPT (unofficial stopover). Then we flew CPT-JNB-DOH-CDG (all on the J reward) - stopover 2 in Paris.
We then flew ORY - MAD - MUC (stopover 3).
Then MUC - MAD - JFK (stopover 4) before flying JFK - YVR (stopover 5)
We then had paid flights YVR - YYC - LAS - LAX (unofficial stopovers in YYC and LAS). We only paid for the LAS-LAX flight because there were no reward seats available - otherwise we could have included it in the OW itinerary.
We didn't stop in LA - just connected from LAS - LAX - MEL.

Under the OW RTW reward we had stopovers in JNB, Paris, Munich, NY and Vancouver. The stopovers in CPT, YYC and LAS didn't count

I agree with vetrade and have also completed similar itineraries. If you complete the booking all online, it should be fine. However, IME, if you book part of the itinerary online and then ring to add extra sectors, the answer will depend on the agent who answers the phone: some will say the land segment is one stopover while others will insist it is two.

Have you put your itinerary into the multi-city tool? If it maxes out at 318k per person (in J) then the itinerary is valid. Getting a phone agent to agree however, may be an entirely different matter.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Hey everyone, I'm thinking of doing a redemption - 1 PAX, J class, WP

Timing will probably be end of Nov 2020 - start of Jan 2021

Thinking of something along this:
SYD - SIN end of Nov (QF)
SIN - HND/NRT (JL)
HND - LAX (JL) - first week of Dec
LAX - USH (AA/LATAM if they're still in OW) - mid Dec
Cruise to Antarctica
USH - SCL (LATAM)
SCL - SYD (LATAM/QF) - Probably after Christmas/around new years?

How difficult would it be to redeem this given I'm a single PAX with WP?

I'm currently 80k points short but am thinking of signing up for the Citibank card to get the points by next February hopefully which will allow me to do the redemption. Hopefully this will give me enough lead time.

I also heard before that I can't search JL reward seats on QF website but uncertain if that has been updated now.

Cheers

Availability may be quite difficult for those last couple of flights, especially in J. QF and LATAM are not known for making seats available at X'mas.

I suspect that if you wait until February to book, you may be disappointed. QF flights open for you (as a WP) at 353 days and, if you are flying in X'mas/NY, you should be ready to book as soon as they open for that SCL-SYD flight. Even then you may not find availability and may need to ask for a seat to be opened up for you (as a WP), which may or not happen.

Try to get the extra points by Dec (borrow from a family member?). If that fails, keep enough points to book the SCL-SYD flights as soon as it becomes available and add the easier sectors later.

JL flights now show on the QF website, but maybe not all of them.

 

[Basaka]

@Jacques Vert Thanks for the pointers - I'll probably take a look around this Christmas to see what availability for SCL-SYD.

Unfortunately the rest of my family is in NZ and don't travel overseas much so I'm stuck with what I have...!

 

[gilldo]

Try to get the extra points by Dec (borrow from a family member?). If that fails, keep enough points to book the SCL-SYD flights as soon as it becomes available and add the easier sectors later.

Another alternative, if it's an option for you, is to take out a new credit card with a bonus point feature, but you'd have to get the spending done and the points in your account by the time you needed them. The latter (getting the points in your account) can take up to 8 weeks after you've hit the spend target.

 

[Azusa]

Hi guys, i think i ran into another pickle and would need some suggestion, so we have one more flight to go and its from coughet HKT back home to MEL.
The dates we would like is anywhere between 6-9th Oct 2020 which is yet to be released, but looking at the site getting a flight from coughet to Melbourne is almost impossible (originally when i did dummy flights in Aug there were available flights going with KA then CX), i have tried getting from coughet to any major hub in Australia and options aren't great, tried Japan and the only remotely viable option is Tokyo to Melbourne but theres only one flight with JL, and they also don't seem to be available (even i look at the latest date)
Are there any other alternatives that you amazing people can think of?
The bolded unlined are the stopovers, just need the last flight to get back to melbourne...

This is our itinerary so far, 10 segments and according to GCM thats still within the 35k miles
MEL-KIX-LAX-MCO-LGW-LHR-MXP-LHR-PRG-DOH-HKT
Thanks!!

 

[Ktan89]

You can try a surface sector to BKK then from there you will have better options. there's even a CX flight from BKK to SIN.

 

[vetrade]

Should be able to get both Y or J KUL to MEL or maybe KUL-ADL-MEL on MH, even if it means paying for a ticket from coughet to KL.

 

[Azusa]

Thank you Ktan89 and vetrade!
I finally saw a flight from Tokyo to Melbourne and just needed to get ourself one from coughet to Tokyo when they are released.
Got through sms and they are no help and insist the flight is not available so i call to the call centre and waited, the Hobart guys picked up the call again and sorted out within 10 mins no problem

fingers crossed we will get the coughet to Tokyo.

thanks again!

 

[Azusa]

Hi guys,
Seems like I am running into never ending problems here, and would like to verify with you if the agents are correct (btw these are not Hobart reps)
so here’s our itinerary so far
MEL-KIX-LAX-MCO-LGW-LHR-MXP-LHR-PRG-DOH-HKT- KUL-NRT-MEL

KUL to NRT is what we are attempting to book
Agent 1 said that’s more than 5 stops, can’t do.
I hang up and call back
Agent 2 said it’s over 35k miles, can’t do.
I hang up, Checked gcm and came up at 33.9k miles, and call back
Agent 3, seemed to be ok with it but he said he couldn’t get the taxes because there is a problem with the LGW-LHR and said he will call me back in a couple of hours.

have I broken any rules? Or just incompetent on Qantas side? And should I call back and hope I get Hobart?