[Check in Staff not] Understanding QF/OW Tier Benefits.

[woodborer]

What I would expect:
At check-in be given info on the default lounge for me as a passenger
The gatekeepers of a lounge to be aware of the rules for that lounge.
Each lounge to have a sheet or two giving the rules for the lounge.

 

[Max Samuels]

"SO ma'am you may use the Qantas lounge for your flight today. But I also see you are a Platinum, so you may also use the Cathay First or Business Lounge, The American Flagship lounge, and oh, you are on a QF flight number, so you may use the Emirate Lounge also"
then the passenger gets even more confused.

Well that's just it - the origin of this discussion was that there WAS a real passenger (who happened to be a ma'am) who DID want that kind of info because they wanted alternatives to the tired old Qantas lounge....

It's just like when I go to a restaurant.... when the waiter drones on with the specials I tune out - unless I actually am interested. Surely people can do likewise if they get overwhelmed with "heplful" lounge info!

 

[RichardMEL]

Well that's just it - the origin of this discussion was that there WAS a real passenger (who happened to be a ma'am) who DID want that kind of info because they wanted alternatives to the tired old Qantas lounge....

It's just like when I go to a restaurant.... when the waiter drones on with the specials I tune out - unless I actually am interested. Surely people can do likewise if they get overwhelmed with "heplful" lounge info!

Yes, and the pax originally referred to "sick of the tired out lounge" would have enough experience with that airport to find out the informaiton.

Check in agents don't have time to hand hold every single passenger. it's not just about one person in one interaction... they have to deal, potentially, with tens or, or even hundreds for a particular flight or set of flights in a short amount of time. It is not reasonable in my view.

 

[Max Samuels]

OK then, please do list all the lounges a QF Gold flying on a QF flight can use at Hong Kong.
Then make that for a Platinum

and for fun, why not tell us how many guests a BA Emerald can bring into the QF F loungr in Sydney when flying on a Cathay flight....

it is NOT as simple as you make out. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise and the fact that many find it confusing, and there are many threads in this forum alone about lounge access proves that for people with an interest - let alone the general public.

Not exactly fun... but off the top of my head

The QF J lounges.
The CX J lounges
Any the other OW J lounges
the EK lounge

The same for Plat except they can use the F lounge if there is one....

And even if there are some mistakes in the above list....

1) I don't work for the airline
2) I didn't bother looking it up
3) I've provided more helpful info than the check-in staff!!

And... if you bother reading some of the other comments.... many people think it ISN'T as confusing as it is made out to be, and if the airlines BOTHERED to train their staff, it would be even less confusing...

 

[serfty]

Looks like they changed a lot since the last time I entered HKG and needed to check in on the way back to the airport (Aug 2010).
The last few times I've been to Hong Kong, it's either been a connection where I haven't left the airport, or a day trip into the city and already having the next boarding pass before arriving in HKG.

I used HKG ITCI for QF back in October 2000 as I had arrived at the airport 7 hours before my flight to find Qantas check-in not open*. I took the Airport express to Central and back and used Qantas ITCI.


*(Well, Duh, but that was before my AFF days.)

 

[Max Samuels]

Yes, and the pax originally referred to "sick of the tired out lounge"

I don't think that comment came from being such a frequent traveler that she was "tired" of travel and lounges and life in general.... I think it was more a point that the QF lounge is a total dump, and an embarrassment to the airline (have you been there?), and that as pretty much everyone who reviews NRT lounges says, is the pits....

 

[esseeeayeenn]

The people on this forum seem to understand the rules pretty well - do you not?

The issue is whether the airline staff should also know the rules...

Speaking only for myself, it is not so much a question of knowing the rules as of knowing where to find the rules.
I have a good general understanding of the lounge access rules which affect me but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of all the lounge access rules.
And they change from time to time anyway.
This discussion was originally about checkin staff, who are often not airline staff at all.
Even when they are airline staff, they are often employed by the local airline, which may not be the airline with which you are flying.
The lounge you are seeking to access may be provided by a third airline, or a lounge provider under contract to a third airline.
Whose responsibility do you think it is to provide the relevant training to the checkin staff?
The airline you are flying, the airline whose frequent flyer programme you belong to, the airline which employs the checkin staff, the ground services provider who employs the checkin staff, the airline providing the lounge, the alliance to which one or more of those airlines belong, or the third party contract lounge provider?
And why do you think there is some obligation on ANYONE to give you a comprehensive list of lounges you can access?
The purpose of the alliance and non-alliance lounge sharing arrangements is to ensure passengers have a lounge available in all ports.
That obligation will be discharged once they provide you with access to any lounge.
Some of us leverage those arrangements to go on lounge cruises or to become lounge connoisseurs.
And good luck to us! May we always find the best champagne!
But let's not pretend this is something the checkin staff are obliged to help us achieve.

 

[Max Samuels]

I agree with you @Max Samuels.

We are a dying breed

 

[Ade]

We are a dying breed

LOL looks like it

 

[RichardMEL]

Not exactly fun... but off the top of my head

The QF J lounges.
The CX J lounges
Any the other OW J lounges
the EK lounge

The same for Plat except they can use the F lounge if there is one....

And even if there are some mistakes in the above list....

1) I don't work for the airline
2) I didn't bother looking it up
3) I've provided more helpful info than the check-in staff!!

And... if you bother reading some of the other comments.... many people think it ISN'T as confusing as it is made out to be, and if the airlines BOTHERED to train their staff, it would be even less confusing...

You have missed my point. Prossably on purpose.

For example 'Any other OW J lounge" - which ones? where? In HKG there are any number of CX lounges - Pier, Wing, Bridge, others I can't think to name... your argument was that a pax wanted alternatves to the QF lounge well in somewhere like HKG that could go on forever almost. In Brisbane, probably not so much. I used HKG very deliberately though obviously.

on the one hand you are expecting a check in agent to be able to list all the lounges a particular passenger for a partiular flight is entitled to and give all that information on demand (if they have to look it up, as you did not, then they'd spend MORE time).

Thanks for the casual suggestion I hadn't read the other posts. Well done. I have. I am also a ventran of tw of the three worldwide alliances (I don't rate ScaryTeam ) and the various ins and outs of lounges which can chop and change.

And by the way go look up the VA lounges for international flyers, that's a dogs breakfast of confusion, but I digress.

And, what about time of day? Some lounges are not open all day to be available for some flyers even if technically they have access (for example EK in AKL only opens late in the afternoon for their flights).

So, check in agents are expected to grap all of this, given there can be a very different mix of passengers with different access rights for a particular flight and expect this to just all be known and given out *when that is not their primary role*? yeah

And what in the case of a foreign station where it's entiterly possible the airline is ground handled by a third party - either the airport itself, a partner airline, or even another airline totally (I remember the days, for example, when TG at MEL used to be handled by QF.. They would have NO idea and nor would I expect it for functions other than doing check in and the like and knowing whatever the assigned lounge was for those pax).

dude this is not high school.

Hopefully in the near future automation will be much more helpful hin this regard, and pax' mobile apps will be able to list all appropriate options based on their ticket, status etc at whichever location. That doesn't seem like rocket science, and it *should* be something that isdo-able. At least the QF app does a reasonable job of one's main lounge entitlement at most places involved in a journey (but not all).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

.... and if the airlines BOTHERED to train their staff, it would be even less confusing...

I want check in staff to process passengers as quickly as possible. First and business class passengers already seem to take longer than anyone else to check in, the last thing I want is agents drawing maps for folk who couldn’t be bothered to look for their options in advance. They many not even *want* the options!

So a passenger perfectly happy with the QF lounge gets told by checkin staff they can also access the QR lounge and EK lounge. The passenger asks which one is best. The check in agent then has to explain all the pros and cons?? ‘Well the EK lounge has better champagne, but it is farther to walk. The QR lounge will have boarding calls, but the CX lounge won’t. But the CX lounge has a nice mix of hot food’... etc.

Do we also want the check in staff to monitor each booking for the maximum points earning? ‘I see you’re crediting your EK account today. Did you consider how many status credits you’re missing out by not crediting to QF? You only need this flight to get to gold’.

Check in staff should know baggage rules, seating, visa rules. And direct pax to the preferred lounge.

 

[Max Samuels]

So much passion! God it's good to be alive in the 21st century!

It is quite interesting to see just how opinions differ to exactly what a check-in agents "job " is. Some think that it is already hard enough, that handing out a piece of paper with a list of lounges is the straw that will break the camel's back. Some people do not.

If we focus on the airport and airline in question, it's actually not that hard. Anyone who ACTUALLY flies from NRT with any frequency would already know that JAL agents checking in for QF actually DO have a little printed piece of paper that lists the QF and JL lounges - on a map. They give this to everyone that has lounge access.

All I am suggesting, is perhaps that can bring that list up to date! Because the EK-QF partnership is particular to QF passengers, and assuming that many people flying QF out of NRT are QF FF, it wouldn't kill them to add one more icon on the map noting the EK lounge.

Then, at the bottom of the page, they could mention "OW Emerald and Sapphire members may also use AA, CX, JL lounges*"

And then a little note at the bottom saying "*partner airline lounges may operate different opening hours to QF and may not make boarding calls".

Anyway, as I said, they already hand out a little map, and that map is so old and been copied so many times it is almost impossible to read - definitely in need of a redo - so when they redo it, just add those few extra pieces of information.

And as for the argument that a lounge eligibility matrix is "hard" - sorry, standing my ground here. Just because something is hard for person A, doesn't make it hard for everyone else. Perhaps my perception is skewed because I work in IT and do just this kind of thing all the time..... If can work out a cover matrix for a Private Health Insurer, where there are a bunch of rules in place to determine what is covered and what is not for a given patient for a specific level of insurance cover, that gets processed in seconds when a card is swiped through a HICAPS machine, and that MUST be correct because there are real world consequences and penalties from the government if I make a mistake (which I don't)... if I can do that, then surely, with all their resources, they can work out who can come into the lounge for a free drink and a piece of toast....

Which makes me wonder - on this AFF forum are there dedicated pages for airports and lounges? Sorry if there is, but I haven't stumbled across them. And if there isn't, maybe we could start one? Each one could be "managed" by someone that cares, and more importantly, KNOWS the ins and outs of that particular airport?

 

[Max Samuels]

You have missed my point. Prossably on purpose.

For example 'Any other OW J lounge" - which ones? where? In HKG there are any number of CX lounges - Pier, Wing, Bridge, others I can't think to name... your argument was that a pax wanted alternatves to the QF lounge well in somewhere like HKG that could go on forever almost. In Brisbane, probably not so much. I used HKG very deliberately though obviously.

Not missing your point - just disagreeing.

However, your response made me open the OW App - which seems to be updated???? Actually very handy esp for somewhere like HKG - and lists all the lounges you are eligible for depending on your airline. So, as we know, all of the OW lounges overlap, but some airlines (like AA) also have access to non-OW lounges (in this case, Hong Kong Airlines)... but on the page for each lounge, it clearly says "access for all other OW carriers", or "access for ONLY the following OW carriers".

The latest version of the OW App - very recommend.

Maybe the OW App can check people in too

 

[sudoer]

OK then, please do list all the lounges a QF Gold flying on a QF flight can use at Hong Kong.
Then make that for a Platinum

Can I add some fun ones to the list?

- BA Gold flying HKG-SIN on QF marketed 3K operated
- EK Gold flying HKG-TYO on QF marketed CX operated
- QF Gold flying HKG-xNAN-SYD on FJ

IMO the issue here isn't with check-in staff but rather the stupidly complicated lounge entry rules. Oneworld Connect is just going to add to the headache with this sort of idiocy:



As has been stated up thread, many staff working lounge desks don't fully understand the rules - and they work the same desk all day! If they're not capable of working it out for a single airline, what hope does a contracted check-in agent have.

 

[Max Samuels]

... many staff working lounge desks don't fully understand the rules - and they work the same desk all day! If they're not capable of working it out for a single airline, what hope does a contracted check-in agent have.

But that is just the point, right? Why do people feel the need to apologise for them?
We do not accept that anywhere else, right? You get your NBN connected with Telstra, it doesn't work, you call them to complain , and they say "oh yeah we had a contractor do that".

What do you do?

A) Say "oh sorry - not your fault - I guess I will just live with no internet"?
B) Say "I don't care who you get to do the work, as far as I am concerned, I am your customer and you will fix this"?
C) Write to the ombudsman

Hint: the correct answer is B, and then C!

 

[sudoer]

But that is just the point, right? Why do people feel the need to apologise for them?

Because their contracted role is to get passengers checked in, luggage tagged, and deal with rebookings/irrops. Their role does not entail advising on the best seats on each plane, the best lounges at the airport, what time the lounges are open, who is capable of accessing them, the weather at your destination, or whatever else you feel like asking that day.

Your NBN analogy isn't applicable because the check-in staffer is adequately performing the function they are contracted for. A better analogy, if you want to use the NBN, would be expecting the contracted NBN technician to connect your line, and then provide advice on the best internet providers to suit your specific needs.

 

[Max Samuels]

Because their contracted role is to get passengers checked in, luggage tagged, and deal with rebookings/irrops.

Can you share the check-in agent job description with us? Maybe that will finally put the discussion to bed!

Also, I know the conversation has taken a few different turns, but the ORIGINAL topic was about contracted check-in staff not knowing QF membership entitlements (EK lounge)

 

[Vic]

Yeah, I don't think it is the job of check in staff, especially contractors, do know the detailed lounge access rules. I actually want them to know how to make sure my bag gets on the plane, and how to give me a boarding pass. As for the bit after the check in desk, I'm pretty sure Qantas will have clear policy to direct pax to the Qantas lounge (where that exists). I bet the training is simply "direct them to the Qantas lounge", there is a clear cost reason why this would be the case.
to expect staff to move beyond training and beyond policy is unreasonable.
It is the job of lounge staff to know access rules.

 

[sudoer]

Can you share the check-in agent job description with us? Maybe that will finally put the discussion to bed!

https://joinswissport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Customer-Service-Agent.pdf

 

[Max Samuels]

https://joinswissport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Customer-Service-Agent.pdf

Not Qantas, but close enough....

Introduction to Lounge Services
Airline product Knowledge (there is a whole training module for that!)

I would think lounges are part of the product?