[Check in Staff not] Understanding QF/OW Tier Benefits.

[Max Samuels]

So this happened to a friend of mine the other day, and got me thinking that this actually happens quite a lot, and for those not as "in the know", can be a real drag...

My friend was flying NRT-MEL on QF. She called me from the bus en route to NRT for a chat, and in passing mentioned she was getting to the airport really early so maybe she'd get a seat after all in the "tired old Qantas club"... at which my ears perked up. I said to her "as QF Gold there are about 7 lounges you can access at NRT. I recommend the EK lounge as it is new, spacious, pretty slick, and very empty at the time you will be there".

Anyway, an hour or so later she calls me from the EK lounge thanking me for my suggestion. She did however point out that the "QF" check-in staff (JL staff), did not mention it to her. When she asked, they said "no access". But she had good intel (form me) and was confident it would work - which it did.

But the question is this: should check-in staff be knowledgable of the lounges and rules etc? i think YES. Especially the OW lounges. One could argue that the QF-EK thing is a special arrangement, and maybe the rent-a-check-in-staff don't know about it (no reason they couldn't, however), but JL is a member of OW, so the staff should be aware of the lounge arrangements there, and should certainly mention them? But there was no mention of AA or CX......

 

[levelnine]

I can understand why staff are not trained to know these entitlements. Saves QF money by not having to pay access fees to other airlines.

It doesn't bother me. It helps prevent these other lounges from becoming over-crowded to the benefit of the savvy frequent flyer.

 

[Max Samuels]

It doesn't bother me. It helps prevent these other lounges from becoming over-crowded to the benefit of the savvy frequent flyer.

Actually I had not thought of that - good point!
But from a product and process point of view, pretty shabby... I mean, in some industries, deliberately with holding info from customers is considered naughty...

 

[levelnine]

But from a product and process point of view, pretty shabby... I mean, in some industries, deliberately with holding info from customers is considered naughty...

That's completely fair, but the airline industry is one of those industries that relies on passenger asymmetry to remain profitable. Two passengers sitting in identical economy seats having paid vastly different sums for their tickets, two persons in the lounge drinking the exact same champagne despite one flying in economy and the other in first, etc etc etc etc. If passengers were treated identically, airlines would go bankrupt either by having to price the tickets too cheaply, and thus failing to make enough revenue, or too expensive, and thus failing to sell enough tickets to make enough revenue.

 

[sudoer]

So where do you draw the line... are the outsourced check-in staff also expected to keep tabs on:

Guesting entitlements?
Qantas Club member eligibility for each lounge?
Opening hours of each lounge? (the NRT CX lounge closes ~2 hours prior to QF80 by the way)
Eligibility on codeshares? (eg QF80 is also sold as FJ5339)

Keep in mind these staff may be dealing with multiple airlines and FFPs each day - I think expecting them to be across every possible permutation is unreasonable.

 

[drron]

So when anyone buys a ticket on QF stock there should be a suggestion-"Join AFF to see what you may be entitled to."

 

[Ade]

So this happened to a friend of mine the other day, and got me thinking that this actually happens quite a lot, and for those not as "in the know", can be a real drag...

My friend was flying NRT-MEL on QF. She called me from the bus en route to NRT for a chat, and in passing mentioned she was getting to the airport really early so maybe she'd get a seat after all in the "tired old Qantas club"... at which my ears perked up. I said to her "as QF Gold there are about 7 lounges you can access at NRT. I recommend the EK lounge as it is new, spacious, pretty slick, and very empty at the time you will be there".

Anyway, an hour or so later she calls me from the EK lounge thanking me for my suggestion. She did however point out that the "QF" check-in staff (JL staff), did not mention it to her. When she asked, they said "no access". But she had good intel (form me) and was confident it would work - which it did.

But the question is this: should check-in staff be knowledgable of the lounges and rules etc? i think YES. Especially the OW lounges. One could argue that the QF-EK thing is a special arrangement, and maybe the rent-a-check-in-staff don't know about it (no reason they couldn't, however), but JL is a member of OW, so the staff should be aware of the lounge arrangements there, and should certainly mention them? But there was no mention of AA or CX......

Similar experience yday in S'pore. Although I knew that I can access other OW lounges as QF Gold, I did ask check in staff if there are any other lounges I can use, and was recommended to use the QF lounge in T1, instead of BA in T1.

However, I accessed the BA lounge instead of QF. Enjoyed BA's food. Dropped by QF lounge for a quick dessert (I love their brownies)

 

[aikman]

A check in agent probably has lots of other stuff to deal with like overweight baggage, prohibited and oversized items, connecting flights, babies, wheelchairs, visas, upgrade requests, codeshares, etc that knowing the exact rules on lounge access is probably not high on their priority list.

I mean, as I read in another thread, if a QF lounge dragon didn't even know that Qatar is a oneworld airline then what chance does a random check in agent have.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I think all you can validly expect from check in staff is that they tell you about access to at least one lounge and provide you with a lounge pass if necessary.

 

[Max Samuels]

So where do you draw the line... are the outsourced check-in staff also expected to keep tabs on:

Guesting entitlements?
Qantas Club member eligibility for each lounge?
Opening hours of each lounge? (the NRT CX lounge closes ~2 hours prior to QF80 by the way)
Eligibility on codeshares? (eg QF80 is also sold as FJ5339)

Keep in mind these staff may be dealing with multiple airlines and FFPs each day - I think expecting them to be across every possible permutation is unreasonable.

Agreed. But still worth wondering about, don't you think? One could argue that they are being PAID to do that job so should be appropriately trained?

As a customer, when I call Telstra, whether I get an outsourced call centre, or the "real deal", I expect them to have the same knowledge and be able to assist me.

For what it is worth, I am a contractor at various companies, so in essence they have "out sourced" some of their capability to me... and let me tell you this: I am expected to perform, behave and provide the same output as the "real" employees of said company - I am actually better in most cases and also really humble

But I do think that if they wanted to solve this, software could easily do it. They could easily print it on your boarding pass (or on a separate boarding pass like CX used to do).

So I guess the people that think it is deliberate on the part of the airlines are correct!

 

[Max Samuels]

if a QF lounge dragon didn't even know that Qatar is a oneworld airline then what chance does a random check in agent have.

Wow that is BAD

 

[Ade]

Agreed. But still worth wondering about, don't you think? One could argue that they are being PAID to do that job so should be appropriately trained?

As a customer, when I call Telstra, whether I get an outsourced call centre, or the "real deal", I expect them to have the same knowledge and be able to assist me.

For what it is worth, I am a contractor at various companies, so in essence they have "out sourced" some of their capability to me... and let me tell you this: I am expected to perform, behave and provide the same output as the "real" employees of said company - I am actually better in most cases and also really humble

But I do think that if they wanted to solve this, software could easily do it. They could easily print it on your boarding pass (or on a separate boarding pass like CX used to do).

So I guess the people that think it is deliberate on the part of the airlines are correct!

I agree with you @Max Samuels.

As a customer, I'd expect the agent serving me to be knowledgeable at least at a level where I'm comfortable and confident that I'm getting the right service.

In this example of OW, I'd expect the agent to :

1. Know my OW tier and the benefits associated with it (not all benefits, at least those that are applicable to my tier at a check-in, baggage, lounge, priority access levels)

2. Understand and be upfront about any issues in the service being offered (say, limit on the guests in the lounge due to renovations or repairs or simply lounge suspected to be full). They don't need to have all the information, but sufficient information for them to operate at the expected efficiency

3. Able to print all (where possible) boarding pass for all legs of the journey under the PNR. This might sound silly, but couple of days back in DEL, the UL agent said that she is unable to print my 2nd and 3rd leg BP because the legs are operated by a different carrier. I told her that the 2nd leg is marketed as a QF number, but operated on UL metal and the 3rd leg is marketed and operated by QF. Regardless, the agent should've been able to print all BP's, unless otherwise there is an issue in the visa linked to my passport. I travel on an Indian passport and was going to stay air-side in both CMB and SIN. After I took the time to explain to the agent (in 3 different languages) that she should be able to print all my BP's, she wasn't convinced and kept saying that the computer isn't allowing here to do so. Then her supervisor had to come and make it work for me!

4. Display sufficient information on where to do premium check-in. Delhi is a big airport and not having a OW check-in desk adds up lots of delays! I spent 30 mins just for check-in (including staying in the line, explaining the agent to print all my BP's and priority baggage tags, which she forgot to attach to my luggage). And for some reason, she had to re-print the baggage tag and in that process she forgot to remove the bar code from the previous baggage tag she put on my bag a few mins ago

Re : your point on software- again, I agree. The agent need not do much, if the software is capable enough to advise the agent on the status, benefits and perks of the passenger. Yes, CX prints out a separate lounge invite based on FF status, regardless of class of travel. The UL agent had to ask around and double check with her supervisor before she could print out my lounge invites for DEL and CMB

I think, IMHO, a smooth, well informed and knowledgeable check-in process is crucial to set the right mood for the journey/travel. If something isn't right during the start, the journey tends to be "not going according to plan" or something like that ... I'm not saying that having status means that everything should be smooth, but, the bare minimum should be working just fine, so that the whole experience of flying with status makes sense

 

[dajop]

Expect a contract check in agent to know? Not at all.

Expect the agent to know where to find the information? Yes.

Expect QF to deliberately withhold information from frontline staff about lounge other than QF lounge? Absolutely

 

[RooFlyer]

Agreed. But still worth wondering about, don't you think? One could argue that they are being PAID to do that job so should be appropriately trained?

Definitely. As the agent of the airline, and contact with the customer when they arrive for their flight, they should be knowledgeable about what the pax needs to know. This comes down to airline management giving sufficient training and support to the front line people.

But I think lounge access in particular is a ship that has sailed in as far as volunteering information is concerned. Just getting an accurate reply in response to questions is hard enough. I've lost count of the times I've been directed to the airline's or their 'preferred' lounge and when checking that I can access an alliance lounge, have been told 'No', when access was a right per cabin class or status. And of course lounge dragons are notorious for not being access access rules, so pity the poor contracted check-in staff.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Expect a contract check in agent to know? Not at all.

Expect the agent to know where to find the information? Yes.

Expect QF to deliberately withhold information from frontline staff about lounge other than QF lounge? Absolutely

I remember one night at HKG I had a lot of time in transit and I decided to leave the CX First Wing Lounge (GASP) and try the QF lounge.
Asked for a glass of champagne only to be told they only had Australian domestic sparkling rubbish (AKA acid rain).
In Hong Kong. Importing Australian sparkling wine to avoid paying for champagne. Unbelievable.
The bar man was quite put out when I declared my intention to return to the CX lounge - it made me wonder whether CX would have billed QF twice!

 

[Hvr]

When I check in at BKK I am always referred to the EK lounge and reference is made to the CX lounge so in some ports they do know. However, since there is no QF lounge at BKK they do have to send eligible members somewhere.

Noting that the OP was at NRT with several lounges I can understand why they refer passengers to the QF lounge. After all, tier benefits are detailed in the annual membership pack with our shiny card.

And @drron suggestion that AFF advertise on BPs is seriously worth considering.

 

[RichardMEL]

I would expect an agent to know the main lounge I am entitled to based on CoS eg flying QF J out of NRT. Now given many out stations staff are usually from a partner airline or the airport itself (ie: QF may be ground handled by JL at HND) then I would expect less. Eg in MEL with QF staff for QF flights they usually know to point me to the QF F lounge as a WP. I would not expect the myriad of combinations to be apparent at out stations.. for example if I'm on a QF flight I can use the EK lounge, but if I'm on a oneworld flight, I can't, but as a WP I can use the JL F lounge... and so on. It can get pretty complicated and if an airline is ground handled by another then I do not expect much.

OTOH I would expect lounge agents to know. And sometimes they don't....

 

[Max Samuels]

I would expect an agent to know the main lounge I am entitled to based on CoS eg flying QF J out of NRT. Now given many out stations staff are usually from a partner airline or the airport itself (ie: QF may be ground handled by JL at HND) then I would expect less. Eg in MEL with QF staff for QF flights they usually know to point me to the QF F lounge as a WP. I would not expect the myriad of combinations to be apparent at out stations.. for example if I'm on a QF flight I can use the EK lounge, but if I'm on a oneworld flight, I can't, but as a WP I can use the JL F lounge... and so on. It can get pretty complicated and if an airline is ground handled by another then I do not expect much.

OTOH I would expect lounge agents to know. And sometimes they don't....

In fairness the JL check-in people do advertise BOTH the QF lounges and the JL lounges - and even recommend the new JL F lounge over the QF Club (when i was there in July the check-in lady said "New JAL First Class lounge is very nice"... and i cheekily replied "better than Qantas lounge"? She smiled, did that weird thing with her face that they do, and said "I think.... maybe...." then burst into giggles!

 

[Himeno]

I don't expect airport staff to know the ins and outs of what is allowed for a given class or status (more so contract staff that may be working for a dozen different airlines on any given day). I do expect them to know where they can quickly find that information (such as a quick reference card located at the desk).

I would expect that QF staff would know more about QF status and lounge access then many do.

However, in the case outlined above, this was JAL staff on contract to Qantas to provide ground support services, including check in.
Staff for a oneworld member airline, checking in people for another oneworld member.
I would expect them to be able to use their knowledge of oneworld access rules they have for JAL flight check in and be able to translate that across to another oneworld flight.

 

[Mattg]

I've been told by Iberia check-in staff that I must use the Lufthansa lounge (this was in HAM). I didn't think this was correct so questioned it, and was assured it was.

Obviously I got denied entry to the LH lounge.... before I headed over to the correct Oneworld lounge.