Yet another "New plane to put an end to economy squeeze" story

[Legoman]

Here we go again. Quality journalism not at all influenced by vested interests. The new B797 is going to end the economy squeeze through clever design! Wow, amazing right? Except that the 747 was going to do this too, and then the Airbus generation planes would do it too, and the 787 Dreamliner and the A380 and just about every single aircraft design in the last 50 years except Concorde was going to do this and yet funnily enough none ever did.

http://tinyurl.com/yd2cnupz

For the same reason as widening roads and adding extra lanes, never solves traffic congestion either. No matter how much extra space you create, the economics of running an airline demand that you fill as much of that extra space with fee paying passengers packed as closely as you can get them without causing a riot inside the aircraft as the passengers push back against their discomfort.

 

[dajop]

No matter how much extra space you create, the economics of running an airline demand that you fill as much of that extra space with fee paying passengers packed as closely as you can get them without causing a riot inside the aircraft as the passengers push back against their discomfort.

Yes, they suggest the 797 will have a 2-3-2 configuration, just like the 787 would have a 2-4-2 configuration and 777 3-3-3-. Indeed many will remember having flown on 767's with that 2-3-2 configuration ... but perhaps not on the Russian carrier Nordwind (or Ukraine International) ....

 

[eastwest101]

Yep - if Boeing were brave they would go ahead with the Twin aisle 797 concept with composites and a 2-3-2 abreast Y cabin but unlike the 787 they will need to limit the emergency exit numbers and Max seat capacity limits to prevent airline accountants from increasing the seat count.

That's what they should have done with the 787 as well, a great aircraft ruined by the accountants 3-3-3 abreast interior configuration.

 

[trooper]

Here we go again. Quality journalism not at all influenced by vested interests. The new B797 is going to end the economy squeeze through clever design! Wow, amazing right? Except that the 747 was going to do this too, and then the Airbus generation planes would do it too, and the 787 Dreamliner and the A380 and just about every single aircraft design in the last 50 years except Concorde was going to do this and yet funnily enough none ever did.

http://tinyurl.com/yd2cnupz

For the same reason as widening roads and adding extra lanes, never solves traffic congestion either. No matter how much extra space you create, the economics of running an airline demand that you fill as much of that extra space with fee paying passengers packed as closely as you can get them without causing a riot inside the aircraft as the passengers push back against their discomfort.

Im not aware there WAS an "Economy squeeze" prior to the 747...and the folks I know who flew economy early on in the 747s said it was very comfortable indeed..

 

[JohnK]

Im not aware there WAS an "Economy squeeze" prior to the 747...and the folks I know who flew economy early on in the 747s said it was very comfortable indeed..

And economy on the 747 is still comfortable. I don't know why. A380 is also ok. The rest are a struggle.

 

[dajop]

And economy on the 747 is still comfortable. I don't know why. A380 is also ok. The rest are a struggle.

I find the 9 across 777's fine, and also feel the 350's are OK. It's just 737's, A320's, A330's, A340's, 9 across 787's and 10 across 777's that I don't like

 

[Legoman]

And economy on the 747 is still comfortable. I don't know why. A380 is also ok. The rest are a struggle.

Depends massively on an individual's height obviously. I'm reasonably tall and as such anything longer than 5 hours in any aircraft economy section is properly uncomfortable and the screen is completely unwatchable because I can't get my head far enough away from it, even when the seat in front isn't reclined.

The only aircraft with decent economy spacing is a Fokker 100, but they don't go for 5 hours anywhere, so it's a virtue you can't really benefit from.

 

[JohnK]

I find the 9 across 777's fine, and also feel the 350's are OK. It's just 737's, A320's, A330's, A340's, 9 across 787's and 10 across 777's that I don't like

Which is most!

I don't think I've been in a 9 across 777 and not many medium-haul routes to Asia serviced with A350's or A340's. Hate the A330's.

As 747's and A380's are phased out it will be more than likely to come down to schedule or better SCs haul for the price paid.

 

[mannej]

JohnK, the A340 is basically an A330 with 4 engines.

 

[dajop]

I don't think I've been in a 9 across 777 .

I am surprised that you haven't in this part of the world. Carriers with 9 across: SQ, TG, NH, JL, OZ, VA, BA, DL**, UA (some) CX (but now switching to 10 across), GA, and previously MH as well. Carriers that either always had or have moved to 10 across: EK, EY, AA, UA (some), NZ, CX (in progress).

** kudos to DL who recently announced a retrofit of their 777-200s with only 9 across, whilst UA and AA are moving to 10 across.

 

[JohnK]

I am surprised that you haven't in this part of the world. Carriers with 9 across: SQ, TG, NH, JL, OZ, VA, BA, DL**, UA (some) CX (but now switching to 10 across), GA, and previously MH as well. Carriers that either always had or have moved to 10 across: EK, EY, AA, UA (some), NZ, CX (in progress).

** kudos to DL who recently announced a retrofit of their 777-200s with only 9 across, whilst UA and AA are moving to 10 across.

It is surprising but the majority of my medium-long haul has been Qantas and they don't have a 777. I've done SQ to Asia but that has been A380 and A330. Most of my regional SE Asia flights have been business class for obvious reasons.

Recent years I've flown EK and they do pack them in but flights to SIN/BKK are conveniently timed.

 

[jb747]

You have to remember that all of this is marketing. And that's simply another word for lying.

 

[Quickstatus]

What happened to the A380 bowling alley and cinemas

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

Maybe cabins need to be segmented more. A slightly more expensive option to be in a 8 across 34 inch 787 seat or 9 on the 777.

Most can't justify a family in PE but might be able to justify an extra $1000 return for the family to get a bit more space, especially oi tall and or a bit wider than comfortable in standard seating.

It would be interesting to see what JALs loading are like. Do they get to charge a slight premium?

I do wonder if Airlines will eventually make flying so miserable an experience people stop.

 

[docjames]

The A220 is currently looking like the best Y class - pity it only does short flights.

Seat width in Y 18.5" and only a 2-3 layout

Let's hope they cant fit it to 3-3.

 

[rock86]

Always the accountants fault isn't it........

 

[Rich]

Maybe cabins need to be segmented more.

Most can't justify a family in PE but might be able to justify an extra $1000 return for the family to get a bit more space

I like the idea of more segments and would be prepared to pay a little more for myself and partner, much like paying more for an exit row. But the $1000 for the whole family (when kids might not need the extra space) could be a strech to justify.
I also wonder if the extra cost for extra space would wear pretty thin if the cheaper section is not full. I am reminded of a recent time travelling with kids with spare seats around us and looking across at 3 decent sized adults in the nearby exit row. I was pretty pleased that the kids prevented me from being allowed to pay extra for one of those exit row seats as it didn't look too comfortable.

 

[JKH]

Have travelled on TG’s 777-200 in the 3-3-3 config which is remarkably better than other greedy airlines’ 3-4-3.
787 Screamliner is an absolute farce for Y-class travellers.
The old 767s in 2-3-2 were quite perfect really. I have no faith, but still hope that the 797 won’t be another sell-out and punishment of economy class travellers.

 

[Himeno]

Have travelled on TG’s 777-200 in the 3-3-3 config which is remarkably better than other greedy airlines’ 3-4-3.

How about 772s with 2-5-2 Y?

 

[juddles]

I do wonder if Airlines will eventually make flying so miserable an experience people stop.

Airlines do what works commercially.And the product they offer is what people vote for with their dollars, not their opinions. Every year it is cheaper and cheaper to travel the planet. This is because airlines squeeze in so many people. There are always better options - more space and better service. But you have to pay for this.