Time to say goodbye to QFF?

[RichardMEL]

this isn't transparent to passengers, but every time your FF# is on a partner or alliance member booking, the host airline program receives revenue from the marketed carrier. So if the OP is 'only' doing 200sc on qantas we should remember that this is more than most members already. Secondly, the 1000 sc earned are still generating qantas loyalty revenue, and in fact potentially more revenue than if they were QF operated flights as you need to be in higher fare classes on partner airlines to earn decent status credits.

This paradox creates a position where this vanilla platinum member could be worth more to qantas loyalty than you as a 100% qf-only-flight customer who is P1.

value to the airline is another story.

my understanding is the qf 'computer says no' scenario is based off algorithmic inputs, which in 2016, is a handicap to any organisation wanting to leverage data to drive new revenue.

Absolutely agree, but there are other factors there such as lounge access and stuff that I reckon may have input too. eg if I fly CX 70% of the time out o HKG (I wish ) and use the Pier F but with my QFF card - QF pays CX for each visit. QF would have that as a liability, right? The revenuye for my CX flights still goes to CX with only a bit to QF for the points earn (however they factor that stuff in).

so QF could see that customer as being lower yield to them because of all that.

Absolutely agree that your road warrier on full fare tickets can trump someone doing cheap status runs and all the rest of it - absolutely.

It's a murky area though when trying to discuss "value" both to customers of a loyalty scheme, to the company employing same as in one particular customer's "value" over another.

I am a low value P1 to QF. Of this I have little doubt. Moreso this year thanks to DSC (next logical step for QF is bonus SC offers like this do not count- this isn't giving them ideas or anything it's just one of a possible next progressions from the indicators so far)... I accept that and am fine with it (I know my place in the world ). Yes, I do purchase dom and int J fares (sale fares!) and again that is a factor. I know that my value doing that is going to be less than your weekly full Y MEL-SYD or BNE-LAX flyer. I get that. When I look at it from the business point of view, I see that and have no real issue with it. I only expect what is published - anything more is really nice.

given all of this "under the hood" stuff is opaque to us as customers it's really hard to draw cnclusions(despite me doing just that ) - this is why I tend to rely on what is published when it comes to expectations because all the rest is... subject to all kinds of factors and shouldn't be expected.

I kinda wish they'd change my next few 737 flights and sub in a 767..... oh wait.....

 

[Happy Trails]

Absolutely agree, but there are other factors there such as lounge access and stuff that I reckon may have input too. eg if I fly CX 70% of the time out o HKG (I wish ) and use the Pier F but with my QFF card - QF pays CX for each visit. QF would have that as a liability, right? The revenuye for my CX flights still goes to CX with only a bit to QF for the points earn (however they factor that stuff in).

so QF could see that customer as being lower yield to them because of all that.

My understanding is that, with OW, the operating airline pays for lounge access.
Don't have any definitive source for this though.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Absolutely agree, but there are other factors there such as lounge access and stuff that I reckon may have input too. eg if I fly CX 70% of the time out o HKG (I wish ) and use the Pier F but with my QFF card - QF pays CX for each visit. QF would have that as a liability, right? The revenuye for my CX flights still goes to CX with only a bit to QF for the points earn (however they factor that stuff in).

so QF could see that customer as being lower yield to them because of all that.

In most cases the marked carrier will pay for lounge (so a QF# on CX flight means QF pays, but CX# and QF FF means CX pays). Also consider many pax will have access by virtue of cabin class which will trump FF# (ie: CX pays for access of QF FF on CX flight in biz class). In Hong Kong for example, CX lounges are a profit centre which is why they have so many lounges. It also help explain why QF invested so much into the lounge refurb - if a pax stays in QF lounge it's much cheaper than if they go to CX lounge. Also helps entice non-QF flight pax to come for a visit, which is new revenue. So ignore all the BS about 'better experience for customers' etc. It's purely about lounge wars.

Absolutely agree that your road warrier on full fare tickets can trump someone doing cheap status runs and all the rest of it - absolutely.

It's a murky area though when trying to discuss "value" both to customers of a loyalty scheme, to the company employing same as in one particular customer's "value" over another.

For airlines its crystal clear - you have a score, and it changes daily/weekly (depending on the loyalty program) to reflect your current active value to the airline/ffp as a whole. It's a bell curve model so one day you might be in the top most valued customers and the next day you're number 50,000. It's every customer benchmarked against every other customer. Then, of course, Qantas (like most airlines) extract and use meta-data from flights to rank and score NON-QFF members too. This creates another layer whereby a CX non-status member might receive an op-up before a QF P1 purely because their score is higher than the P1.

Status is merely the output of what you've spent (your input) with the airline. So the airline, at least from an analytics and statistical reasoning perspective, will use your score as the metric - and not your status. Your status is an easy way for you to know where you sit and is not always a reflection of your (input) value to the airline.

I am a low value P1 to QF. Of this I have little doubt. Moreso this year thanks to DSC (next logical step for QF is bonus SC offers like this do not count- this isn't giving them ideas or anything it's just one of a possible next progressions from the indicators so far)... I accept that and am fine with it (I know my place in the world ). Yes, I do purchase dom and int J fares (sale fares!) and again that is a factor.

You might surprise yourself QF does propensity modelling to understand which offers work best on various audience segments. So if you book more flights when offered DSC, and actively book less when no DSC, QF is fundamentally training you to book more when a deal of this nature is on, and the correlation (directly linked to causation in this example) means your account will be flagged as someone who is driven to/aspires to have increased status. You can use this to your advantage with a little creative thinking...

 

[RooFlyer]

OK ... but if QF is so smart, why can't they get their web site to work properly?

By the sound of it, my QF travel would put me in the 'unpredictable' category which would match other metrics on me

* I fly QF J for business (overseas) when the client wants me to go; just what's available at the time;

* I fly J on QF and other OW carriers for overseas leisure travel when I get around to booking it; rarely able to take advantage of DSC etc offers, but regularly choose other OW carriers rather than QF on a route because its cheaper and to heck with the SC/points earn (I'll get to plat anyway).

* I hardly ever fly QF domestically because VA is cheaper and the experience in whY is marginally better.

 

[defurax]

Ah, but I think it is clear from QF's most recent moves (as I suggested earlier) on making LB thresholds on QF/JQ flying SC's and the platinum bonus at 2400 SC also based ONLY on QF/JQ SC's that the intent is that they are saying (and it makes sense from their point of view) that "We want you earning on our metal" (ie: paying US money).

The 2400 SC bonus is still taking into account non-QF/JQ SC (https://www.qantas.com/fflyer/dyn/flying/tier-benefits#benefits-of-platinum)
I received an email from QF recenty telling me I was approaching 2400 SC and 250 of these SC are not on QF flights.

The email says:
Three Platinum Bonus Reward options
By earning 2,400 Status Credits[SUP]^[/SUP] on Qantas, Jetstar, oneworld[SUP]®[/SUP] alliance airlines and Fiji Airways (including at least four eligible Qantas or Jetstar flight segments[SUP]‡[/SUP]) in one membership year you'll get a choice from three rewards.

 

[OS002]

Hi everyone, thanks again for all your suggestions re-QFF and MPC.

For other forum members to avoid the mistakes I've made, here are some hard statistics:
- Second last membership cycle 1190 SC (400 SC from QF/JQ)
- Last membership cycle 1125 SC (660 SC from QF/JQ)

The person that I spoke to over the phone... by the way, very condescending and unhelpful (at normal help-desk)... acknowledged that I've achieved 3600+ SC over past 3 membership cycles, but kept pinning me on the fact that I've fallen short two years in a row. Insisting that I've used up my one-off 'good will' from QFF last year, so the program for sure won't do it again for me.

To this day I'm not 100% sure if someone from Qantas Loyalty has actually reviewed my formal email enquiry.
Anyways, I've made my peace with the situation... Happy travelling everyone!

 

[serfty]

Ok, so that explains it ... you were 'comped' last year - the 'comp' has been generally a "one off" ...

(ouch! that 1190 year comes back to bite - I would have found those 10 SC somewhere )

 

[JohnK]

(ouch! that 1190 year comes back to bite - I would have found those 10 SC somewhere )

Not that difficult to find. Even at 1125 SCs I'd make sure I got there and not relied on a comp.

 

[nlagalle]

Hi everyone, thanks again for all your suggestions re-QFF and MPC.

For other forum members to avoid the mistakes I've made, here are some hard statistics:
- Second last membership cycle 1190 SC (400 SC from QF/JQ)
- Last membership cycle 1125 SC (660 SC from QF/JQ)

The person that I spoke to over the phone... by the way, very condescending and unhelpful (at normal help-desk)... acknowledged that I've achieved 3600+ SC over past 3 membership cycles, but kept pinning me on the fact that I've fallen short two years in a row. Insisting that I've used up my one-off 'good will' from QFF last year, so the program for sure won't do it again for me.

To this day I'm not 100% sure if someone from Qantas Loyalty has actually reviewed my formal email enquiry.
Anyways, I've made my peace with the situation... Happy travelling everyone!

ok so you got a comp when you had 1190? If so then there is your one off.. you didn't mention that at the start. Don't expect them to do it twice in a row. I'm not sure why you were expecting that.

 

[OS002]

I got my comp without even asking for it, so I was not aware of this being a thing...

 

[boomy]

I got my comp without even asking for it, so I was not aware of this being a thing...

Did you have flights booked that were supposed to get you over the line and got comped before taking them?

 

[juddles]

This last revelation puts a whole new spin on things. the OP was already comped last year. And wants it again? WTF??

 

[juddles]

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to "I got a huge freebie from QF last year, now I demand another one this year and they are reluctant - how dare they!"

 

[JohnPhelan]

This is a great example of the danger of giving ANY comped status, and of unpublished benefits - people come to expect them, or feel 'entitled' to them ...........................

 

[esseeeayeenn]

This is a great example of the danger of giving ANY comped status, and of unpublished benefits - people come to expect them, or feel 'entitled' to them ...........................

I think it's a manageable risk. I don't think too many come to expect them or feel entitled to them.
I just think that the group who do is overrepresented in disgruntled threads on frequent flyer forums.

 

[NZflygirl]

I got my comp without even asking for it, so I was not aware of this being a thing...

With this piece of information I think I understand now where you were coming from. If good things happen when you don't ask for them it's not like you call up and say "hey you made a mistake qantas." It's only due to an unfavourable outcome it's meant looking into it a bit more and then discovering the realities.

There's a fair amount of learning to be done even for the frequent flyer. Almost worth its own degree! Anyway, you're now a little bit wiser than before you started this thread. Keep reading and if you're unsure just ask.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to "I got a huge freebie from QF last year, now I demand another one this year and they are reluctant - how dare they!"

Under the loyalty bonus changes, the OP would have qualified for Platinum the past 2 years.
I don't think the OP is asking something for nothing in the sense of how AFF will judge him, but rather got caught up in a quirk of the 3-year rule.

 

[RooFlyer]

I got my comp without even asking for it, so I was not aware of this being a thing...

And of course sometimes comping happens before the end of the status year, even though one has bookings that will take one over the threshold anyway. That's the type that worries me; I didn't need it, I didn't want it and I hope it hasn't been retained in my profile as "his one freebie has been expended".

 

[nlagalle]

And of course sometimes comping happens before the end of the status year, even though one has bookings that will take one over the threshold anyway. That's the type that worries me; I didn't need it, I didn't want it and I hope it hasn't been retained in my profile as "his one freebie has been expended".

If you re-qual on your own after getting the comp, then generally it doesn't count.

 

[mannej]

So the OP fell short last year (albeit by 10 SC) and was comped, which they stated they never asked for the comp.

Putting some spin on it, if they were never comped last year, they would be requiring the 1400 SC this year and not the 1200, so would be ~20% short and not the ~7% short they were chasing the retain levels.