Time to say goodbye to QFF?

[Cool Cat Phil]

I think the best thing any frequent flyer can do is to be active members on this or similar forums - that way you get a great understanding of the realities out there, and can manage and plan for this sort of thing.

I actually agree with QF in your particular case - they have rules and enforce them. No-one likes to lose status, but there has to be some sort of framework or structure to manage that - QF (like every other airline) know only too well that opening floodgates is suicide. And it is a tough game, keeping an airline afloat.

I also think that QF's comp system where they average your last three years is a really decent and sensible approach to these issues.

Solid and rational argument made- Juddles.

Those that think the grass is greener elsewhere might want to read this thread...

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-the-point-of-platinum-79405.html#post1543211

 

[boomy]

I also think that QF's comp system where they average your last three years is a really decent and sensible approach to these issues.

How do you think the system is decent when the OP clearly achieved the requirements yet didn't get comped?!

QF have too many unofficial rules which ultimately are confusing and deceiving. I know people who got comped after two years and also someone who got comped twice in row, year after year.

To the OP, don't be too disappointed and think about the bright side: You are free of the loyalty "shackles".
While domestically QF are the best, internationally there are better options, especially for you ex-HKG.

 

[RichardMEL]

3600 SC/3 years is a fair whack and, based on previous *anecdotal* evidence here, it would have been a tough call IMHO and the result is tough really given some comps made while 200+ SC short of goals.

As suggested earlier QF inconsistency at work, or it's a PCV issue. However QF make their decisions it's failed at this point. Surprising yes given the recent earn (10k LT SC I think doesn't have a huge bearing as it could be over 20 years in total).

Disappointing yes, technically though within the rules and that is the bottom line. Just because the other guy got it doesn't always mean you should - that can be a harsh reality of life - and we've all had variations of that I'm sure in one way or another.

Anyway if it was me I'd enjoy the gold, through some SC's QF's way to try to get to the 14k target of LTG over the next few years and lock that in.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

To the OP, don't be too disappointed and think about the bright side: You are free of the loyalty "shackles".
While domestically QF are the best, internationally there are better options, especially for you ex-HKG.

boomy is spot-on for ex-HKG travel. The options for travel are significantly greater outside the QF-universe.
Also, there are many others HKG based members and I don't know any who fly QF as their main airline.

 

[oz_mark]

We are talking about at least 3,600 SC over the past 3 years and 10,000+ SC overall.
I've even gone out of my way to retain QF platinum whilst living in Canada the past 1.5 years, when I could have gunned for AC 100K instead (I am still on AC 50K).
All I am saying is that don't let your loyal customers feel like they are liabilities to you as soon as they've stumbled.

Just as a data point - and given you were in Canada, how many of those 3,600 SC would have come from flying QF? (Just wondering if this was a factor)

 

[RichardMEL]

Just as a data point - and given you were in Canada, how many of those 3,600 SC would have come from flying QF? (Just wondering if this was a factor)

I think this is a very valid point. Many SC's earned not on QF metal would definitely lower the value of the membership (to QF, not to the OP )

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I think this is a very valid point. Many SC's earned not on QF metal would definitely lower the value of the membership (to QF, not to the OP )

If you're not living in AU and can maintain Plat/Plat1, I would argue greater loyalty propensity than an AU resident.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just as a data point - and given you were in Canada, how many of those 3,600 SC would have come from flying QF? (Just wondering if this was a factor)

Cannot be a factor; SCs earned on QF metal is explicitly stated as a condition of P1 but never indicated to be relevant on any other status attainment or retain. If it was a factor in OP's case (and admitted by QFF) , it would be challengeable.

 

[RichardMEL]

If you're not living in AU and can maintain Plat/Plat1, I would argue greater loyalty propensity than an AU resident.

yes IF you are flying QF flights (ie: revenue to them) which is very difficult when not resident.

I mean if you have 1000 of 1200 SC on CX/BA/MH/EK etc vs 200 on QF QF would probably not consider you of great a "value" to them revenue wse as someone earning 700 SC on QF and 500 elsewhere.

I'm only saying in the eyes of QF who would have revenue to them as priority.

For now only P1 has the clear QF/JQ earning requirement (2700) - the latest changes now including the loyalty bonus and the platinum bonus reward at 2400 QF/JQ.

The OP has not sad how many QF/JQ direct SCs were earned during the past 3 years(and more) of overseas living. If all bar 4-6 say QF sectors (say a yearly visit home or 2) were on partners, then QF probably don't value this as highly

Now I read the story and agree that going to all this effort to retain QFF earnings, status, LTSC earn etc is very loyal but I wonder if the "computer says no" response was just a 30 second look at the numbers.

It's probably not fair to either 2nd guess or try and figure out the decision making here - specially given QF is notorious for being inconsistent and making, what would seem, rather odd choices at times.

Frankly I admire the OP for living OS and being so loyal to the "home" program. I definitely DO understand the disappointment felt

 

[TonyHancock]

I'm in the same boat, well luxury cruise liner as I prefer to call it, I was a few SC's short of, now what does Griselda call it, oh yes, Platinum One, and Qantas demoted me to Platinum. Following several letters of complaint I have accepted my lot, purchased a singlet and flip flops and taken to drinking Bingtang Beer so that I blend in whilst visiting the Qantas [-]RSL[/-] First Lounge in Sydney. It has given me the opportunity to study the Qantas Platinum Frequent flyer in his/her home environment. I feel like David Attenborough. (mmmmmthere might be a TV special in this.)

 

[RichardMEL]

I'm in the same boat, well luxury cruise liner as I prefer to call it, I was a few SC's short of, now what does Griselda call it, oh yes, Platinum One, and Qantas demoted me to Platinum. Following several letters of complaint I have accepted my lot, purchased a singlet and flip flops and taken to drinking Bingtang Beer so that I blend in whilst visiting the Qantas [-]RSL[/-] First Lounge in Sydney. It has given me the opportunity to study the Qantas Platinum Frequent flyer in his/her home environment. I feel like David Attenborough. (mmmmmthere might be a TV special in this.)

QF RSL. classic.

I dare say your luxury yacht is a little different - the lines on QFF comps/status retention for Gold and Plat are pretty blurry, but QF has always been very strict on P1 - the latest changes (LB SC's not counting etc) just adding to their very much clearly stated aim that P1 be earned strictly. I am sure there have been exceptions(as with most things in life, bar death) but probably pretty rare.

I'd say, as disappointing as it would be after >3000SC in a year, I'm glad if they do hold the line on that.

Anyway your grass has been much greander over in the land of GGL which no real need to look back (the cricket viewing in the RSL is terrible these days! )

my 2 cents.

 

[UP4014]

To clarify, I feel disappointed in Qantas only because I genuinely am serious about my membership.
We are talking about at least 3,600 SC over the past 3 years and 10,000+ SC overall.
I've even gone out of my way to retain QF platinum whilst living in Canada the past 1.5 years, when I could have gunned for AC 100K instead (I am still on AC 50K).
All I am saying is that don't let your loyal customers feel like they are liabilities to you as soon as they've stumbled.

With 10,000+ SC I would stick with QF until the magic 14,000.

Silly in my view to change schemes when you're nearly 75% of the way there.

 

[RichardMEL]

With 10,000+ SC I would stick with QF until the magic 14,000.

Silly in my view to change schemes when you're nearly 75% of the way there.

I think I would try and do it in a smart way

by that I mean look at projected travel for the next (QF) membership year and work out a projected level to attain at CX or AA or SQ or whatever program one chooses. I would then aim for that level, then send the rest to QF - that way you ramp up in the new scheme, but still throw a few hundred SC(or whatever) at QFF to build the LTSC count but have the benefit in the new program.

my thoughts.

 

[UP4014]

I think I would try and do it in a smart way

by that I mean look at projected travel for the next (QF) membership year and work out a projected level to attain at CX or AA or SQ or whatever program one chooses. I would then aim for that level, then send the rest to QF - that way you ramp up in the new scheme, but still throw a few hundred SC(or whatever) at QFF to build the LTSC count but have the benefit in the new program.

my thoughts.

I think I'd do it the other way, send everything to QF (the OP is still Gold), reconsider again if there is a drop to Silver.

As the OP said he was only 75 short of Platinum, then it might only take 3 or 4 years at 1000 SC per year to get LTG and can move on.

Living OS makes it hard to maintain the 4 flights, but maybe the OP can do it easy, we don't know.

 

[TonyHancock]

I dare say your luxury yacht is a little different - the lines on QFF comps/status retention for Gold and Plat are pretty blurry, but QF has always been very strict on P1 - the latest changes (LB SC's not counting etc) just adding to their very much clearly stated aim that P1 be earned strictly. I am sure there have been exceptions(as with most things in life, bar death) but probably pretty rare.

....but....but.....but I was only 3350 short. (It would have been more but for a mistaken MEL-ADL credit that should have gone to BA. )

 

[nlagalle]

Cannot be a factor; SCs earned on QF metal is explicitly stated as a condition of P1 but never indicated to be relevant on any other status attainment or retain. If it was a factor in OP's case (and admitted by QFF) , it would be challengeable.

Well it could be.. We aren't talking P1, we are talking WP, so the OP would only need 4 QF flights. And given there is no set rules on the 3 year comp (it is unwritten), they may have look at of those SC's earned over the previous years they weren't on QF metal so wasn't as higher value (can't remember the acronym) than someone flying solely on QF metal..

 

[RooFlyer]

Just as a data point - and given you were in Canada, how many of those 3,600 SC would have come from flying QF? (Just wondering if this was a factor)

Cannot be a factor; SCs earned on QF metal is explicitly stated as a condition of P1 but never indicated to be relevant on any other status attainment or retain. If it was a factor in OP's case (and admitted by QFF) , it would be challengeable.

Well it could be.. We aren't talking P1, we are talking WP, so the OP would only need 4 QF flights. And given there is no set rules on the 3 year comp (it is unwritten), they may have look at of those SC's earned over the previous years they weren't on QF metal so wasn't as higher value (can't remember the acronym) than someone flying solely on QF metal..

I know we are talking WP, not P1; relevant words by me were "but never indicated to be relevant on any other status attainment or retain" .

My point was, as there is no "number of SCs earned on Qantas flights" hurdle for WP attain/retain, then it cannot (or better, should not) be a hurdle for comping either. But as its an unpublished benefit, as you observe, who knows? Consistently inconsistent.

 

[Matt_Sullivan]

CX status matched me to Gold from QF Platinum when I moved to HK. They initially said "no, we don't status match QF". However, they changed their mind when I pointed out that as QF platinum I could use all of CX's first class lounge facilities anyway, and that if they wouldn't status match me then I would stick with the QF FF program, do all my short haul intra Asia flights in CX economy and do all my long haul business/first travel on QF, AA, JAL and BA.

If you do switch to CX then getting a status match is important because if you start from scratch (Green) your credits are re-set at each level of attainment -- get to silver, go back to zero and then get gold, go back to zero and then get Diamond. Can take 2+ years. If you get Gold to start, you can be Diamond as quickly as your flying patterns allow eg 6 months or so

In comparing the two programs -- CX treats it's Diamond members much better than Qantas treats its WP (I was never P1) in terms of upgrades especially. I was rarely upgraded in QF but probably have a 30-40% hit rate on CX, especially on some routes. It's also easier to redeem for flights and upgrades on CX. Under the old MPC program I would not have hesitated to recommend that you switch if you could get Gold from CX as a status match. However, under the new MPC rules getting to Diamond is tougher than Platinum on Qantas, and it would depend on your flight patterns whether you could switch to MPC and get to Diamond.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

yes IF you are flying QF flights (ie: revenue to them) which is very difficult when not resident.

I mean if you have 1000 of 1200 SC on CX/BA/MH/EK etc vs 200 on QF QF would probably not consider you of great a "value" to them revenue wse as someone earning 700 SC on QF and 500 elsewhere.

I'm only saying in the eyes of QF who would have revenue to them as priority.

For now only P1 has the clear QF/JQ earning requirement (2700) - the latest changes now including the loyalty bonus and the platinum bonus reward at 2400 QF/JQ.

The OP has not sad how many QF/JQ direct SCs were earned during the past 3 years(and more) of overseas living. If all bar 4-6 say QF sectors (say a yearly visit home or 2) were on partners, then QF probably don't value this as highly

Now I read the story and agree that going to all this effort to retain QFF earnings, status, LTSC earn etc is very loyal but I wonder if the "computer says no" response was just a 30 second look at the numbers.

It's probably not fair to either 2nd guess or try and figure out the decision making here - specially given QF is notorious for being inconsistent and making, what would seem, rather odd choices at times.

Frankly I admire the OP for living OS and being so loyal to the "home" program. I definitely DO understand the disappointment felt

this isn't transparent to passengers, but every time your FF# is on a partner or alliance member booking, the host airline program receives revenue from the marketed carrier. So if the OP is 'only' doing 200sc on qantas we should remember that this is more than most members already. Secondly, the 1000 sc earned are still generating qantas loyalty revenue, and in fact potentially more revenue than if they were QF operated flights as you need to be in higher fare classes on partner airlines to earn decent status credits.

This paradox creates a position where this vanilla platinum member could be worth more to qantas loyalty than you as a 100% qf-only-flight customer who is P1.

value to the airline is another story.

my understanding is the qf 'computer says no' scenario is based off algorithmic inputs, which in 2016, is a handicap to any organisation wanting to leverage data to drive new revenue.

 

[RichardMEL]

I know we are talking WP, not P1; relevant words by me were "but never indicated to be relevant on any other status attainment or retain" .

My point was, as there is no "number of SCs earned on Qantas flights" hurdle for WP attain/retain, then it cannot (or better, should not) be a hurdle for comping either. But as its an unpublished benefit, as you observe, who knows? Consistently inconsistent.

Ah, but I think it is clear from QF's most recent moves (as I suggested earlier) on making LB thresholds on QF/JQ flying SC's and the platinum bonus at 2400 SC also based ONLY on QF/JQ SC's that the intent is that they are saying (and it makes sense from their point of view) that "We want you earning on our metal" (ie: paying US money).

It's not explicit at this point but what IS explicit is the 1200 WP requal amount. The OP got 1125 - and is disappointed his request the be comp'd WP another year was denied, so we're in the territory of how QF decides if they should comp or not, NOT on published goals to retain WP (because if he had 1205 SC this wouldn't be an issue even if they were all on CX bar 4 QF SYD-OOL cheapies for example).

So I am suggesting that in very recent times QF on the one hand are making it very clear that to them loyalty (eg the aptly named Loyalty Bonus ) is earned on QF group SC's, not on oneworld ones. It then follows logically that in assessing such things as un-published things like deciding on a status comp/extension, that QF would give weight to QF group SC's.

Now the OP has not indicated how many of those 1125 SC's last membership year were on QF vs OW carriers but it seems reasonable to assume not a vast amount was QF earn based on a HKG (or other, overseas) location.

Again, it's hard to second guess QF's decisions without all the info, and even tthen it would just be sheer educated guesswork on our part because we're not within QFF as to why a comp was not given (it could vary from whoever looked at the request based on if their coffee was cough that morning or not) but I do feel it culd well be relevant when assessing such requests that the customer's value to QF (ie the discussed "PCV") would be lower the less SC's earned on QF group flights.

Now, if 1050 of 1125 were all QF group then I would be very surprised at QF's decision

but at the end of the day the cold fact is the published number was missed. That sucks, but things like comps are totally at QF's discretion - for whatever reasons.

It's disappointing, but they obviously have their reasons, or maybe they are deciding to tighten things up (with the changes to the loyalty / plat bonus SC requirements being a published hint). We just don't know. I'm sorry for the OP it seems harsh, but at the end of the day 1125 < 1200. To have an expectation of a comp (I am not saying the OP did - he was well within his rights to ask absolutely) is perhaps asking for trouble because this comes down to a subjective decision being made by someone at QF.