Some Accounts suspended for "potentially" dodgy points transfers

[lovetravellingoz]

They are entitled to be offended by the manner it has been handled. Honestly from what I have seen it shows how amateurish VA have handled this.

Agree. VA should have been more polite about it. But equally I agree does need to freeze accounts while it investigates.

 

[anat0l]

I'm all ears as to why acting in accordance with their own T&C's (see Section 9) could be disagreeable, or even considered unreasonable. What should they have done?

Then you would not be in disagreement of a hypothetical alternative, where instead of suspending accounts, Velocity could have cancelled all suspected accounts, deleted all miles, removed all status and additionally cancelled all current bookings made with Velocity points. A letter is then sent to the accused member telling them that they have had their accounts terminated due to breach of relevant rules, and they have 14 days to appeal the ruling in writing.

Be that as it may it's a damned if do or don't for Velocity, they may have selected one of the least confronting methods for them to enforce their rules but it is still not very diplomatic. trippin_the_rift had given some suggestions as to how the process may have been better handled, though suffice to say nearly any other FFP in the world would probably have handled the same problem in the same manner Velocity did, except for those who may just write off the breaches and move on with tightening the programme rules forthwith.

Even if Velocity tighten their rules and processes, e.g. force every single family interaction to be coupled with relation information from here on in, identity checks and so on, I would imagine that true breaches in the future will be dealt with in exactly the same way. For someone who is truly swindling the system and/or has only malicious intent, that could be justified, I suppose...

 

[serfty]

Agree. VA should have been more polite about it....

Were they not polite about it?

 

[Punky]

I don't think the issue is Velocity acting within their T&C's, but it is the lack of tact they have displayed here. How does it make a member feel should they be found with no case to answer?

Who knows if they have or haven't. We haven't heard the Velocity side of the argument. What do they know, or think they know? What is the data telling them? Actually, we haven't even heard from the affected people here either, so I don't know how anything much can be said.

 

[mannej]

Who knows if they have or haven't. We haven't heard the Velocity side of the argument. What do they know, or think they know? What is the data telling them? Actually, we haven't even heard from the affected people here either, so I don't know how anything much can be said.

Whilst members have been coy on here about this, my comments are based on conversations that I have had with an affected member. The treatment has been shoddy to say the least.

 

[Ausbt]

My father is considering moving in with me. Am I at risk if I alter his address and have him start pooling to me? He is not likely to take a flight until November and doesn't fly very much, but he has an overseas J coming up.

 

[anat0l]

My father is considering moving in with me. Am I at risk if I alter his address and have him start pooling to me? He is not likely to take a flight until November and doesn't fly very much, but he has an overseas J coming up.

Reasonably, there's nothing wrong with your proposal.

Remember, just because one is audited doesn't mean you're bound to lose your account. It's just annoying. You could very well be audited (and your father as well), but I definitely would be surprised if you were, especially since you are setting up the pooling with the new tighter system where you must specify the relationship (and this is a real relationship, not a fake one!)

 

[Happy Dude]

Then you would not be in disagreement of a hypothetical alternative, where instead of suspending accounts, Velocity could have cancelled all suspected accounts, deleted all miles, removed all status and additionally cancelled all current bookings made with Velocity points. A letter is then sent to the accused member telling them that they have had their accounts terminated due to breach of relevant rules, and they have 14 days to appeal the ruling in writing.

I would think that is stiffer than a triple whisky but if them's the rules. But it does illustrate that some level of fairness has been applied by Velocity.

Be that as it may it's a damned if do or don't for Velocity, they may have selected one of the least confronting methods for them to enforce their rules but it is still not very diplomatic. trippin_the_rift had given some suggestions as to how the process may have been better handled, though suffice to say nearly any other FFP in the world would probably have handled the same problem in the same manner Velocity did, except for those who may just write off the breaches and move on with tightening the programme rules forthwith.

Yes it was me that said Velocity can't win here, and with all due respect to Trippin's post, I read it as ways to prevent dodgy activity in the future - rather than ways Velocity could have handled it better now.

Even if Velocity tighten their rules and processes, e.g. force every single family interaction to be coupled with relation information from here on in, identity checks and so on, I would imagine that true breaches in the future will be dealt with in exactly the same way. For someone who is truly swindling the system and/or has only malicious intent, that could be justified, I suppose...

Yep I agree and am still to be convinced as to why said please explain letter is such a big deal. I'm wondering how some precious sorts cope when pulled over by a RBT or the bomb residue dude at the airport. Give them what they want and move on, forget about it.

 

[Happy Dude]

My father is considering moving in with me. Am I at risk if I alter his address and have him start pooling to me? He is not likely to take a flight until November and doesn't fly very much, but he has an overseas J coming up.

You should probably wait to start pooling until your father does move in with you.

 

[anat0l]

I'm wondering how some precious sorts cope when pulled over by a RBT or the bomb residue dude at the airport. Give them what they want and move on, forget about it.

Very easy.

First, those are both very quick processes. The imposition on your time relative to it preventing you from completing the intended activity is nearly minimal (unless the evidence is suspicious). Plus, you are offered the presumption of innocence in both cases.

That said, it's hard to compare what's happening with Velocity and the two examples you give. The two example processes you provide are thoroughly covered in legislation; the processes have been rather comprehensively (not completely!) debated over fairness, dignity, civil rights whilst still maintaining legal and process integrity (or trade-offs thereof). Given that Virgin run Velocity and they essentially make the rules, barring commercially unconscionable conduct (which falls under common legal frameworks), they are allowed to do whatever they want.

 

[nlagalle]

I'm all ears as to why acting in accordance with their own T&C's (see Section 9) could be disagreeable, or even considered unreasonable. What should they have done?

Actually if you read the letter it isn't section 9... anyway that's another point.

But with your account suspended it also means your benefits are suspended as someone I know found out last week. got off the plane to find the email, nothing since but the following night was denied entry to the lounge as their status was reverted back to red. So they've had no actual explanation as to why or what is going on..

A better approach would be to rather than just suspend the account and you sit there and wait, would be to actually get the so called "breaches" and send them out when you suspend the account. As it stands, it's been nearly a week and nothing since the initial email saying the account is suspended with no explanation. Poor handling by VA....

 

[Greggsy]

But with your account suspended it also means your benefits are suspended as someone I know found out last week. got off the plane to find the email, nothing since but the following night was denied entry to the lounge as their status was reverted back to red. So they've had no actual explanation as to why or what is going on..

Interesting... I've had my account suspended as well and I've been assured twice over the phone that I can still use the lounge. Will find out tomorrow morning.

 

[TheInsider]

AusBT now has an article, along with the letter.

Velocity accounts being suspended due to suspect points transfers - Australian Business Traveller

 

[Jurahn]

From the AusBT article:

"When contacted by Australian Business Traveller, most members with suspended accounts admitted to having made or received a transfer of frequent flyer points with somebody other than an ‘eligible family member’ as defined by Velocity – although in two cases members claimed those transfers took place between two and three years ago.
[h=3]Points for sale[/h]In several instances money as well as points has changed hands, with some members selling excess points and others buying points to apply for an award seat or upgrade."

So a number of those who have been affected aren't quite "innocent parties", it seems.

 

[Milefest]

Interesting... I've had my account suspended as well and I've been assured twice over the phone that I can still use the lounge. Will find out tomorrow morning.

Do you believe that you've breached the T&Cs? Keep us updated

 

[VOZ102]

Interesting... I've had my account suspended as well and I've been assured twice over the phone that I can still use the lounge. Will find out tomorrow morning.

Having dealt with some members affected by this I can tell you...

Phone call means nothing and if you ever try and write to the email address all you will get in generic letter templates signed by Mr Andy, even though it's his nameless henchmen pulling the strings it would appear.

Face it - having read quite a few of these letters - even if you have done nothing wrong - you are guilty until YOU can prove otherwise. Until then, account is frozen.

FWIW, a member I know got a suspension letter and then NOTHING back to confirm account was back to normal. About 7 days later they noticed they could access their account normally but got nothing from velocity.

Even if you have nothing to hide - you are still treated like cough.

BTW - even if you are proven to have done nothing wrong; don't expect an apology for the false accusation or the wasting of your time etc etc. Or any acknowledgment of your ongoing loyalty.

Two points;

1. The company is in deep financial cost cutting mode and I have been advised this is just one of their latest tactics internally to clamp down on waste.
2. The T&C's don't stipulate the duration for which a family member must be living at the "same residential address"

 

[Ausbt]

1. The company is in deep financial cost cutting mode and I have been advised this is just one of their latest tactics internally to clamp down on waste.

Ok, so should we transfer all points to SG now?

 

[Denali]

Ok, so should we transfer all points to SG now?

This has been something I have been worried about - Im sitting on 600+K points and as I tell my husband, Im worried about having them all in one basket for when VA devalues them

 

[anat0l]

1. The company is in deep financial cost cutting mode and I have been advised this is just one of their latest tactics internally to clamp down on waste.

I don't think this will net many savings (or similarly stem any losses that haven't already been now cut off by the tightened conditions). Unless people really did take Velocity for a ride, which I doubt happened in the mainstream.

Also, whoever your source is for this particular observation, they'd better watch themselves.

I think it's funny how this "deep cost cutting" keeps getting referenced around the place. When VA were rolling out the revolutionary features, people thought this was a great way to generate revenue without the traditional culture of cut cut cut (or "enhancements"). Now they are fiscally irresponsible?

2. The T&C's don't stipulate the duration for which a family member must be living at the "same residential address"

What if VA asked for evidence that a given person lived at the same address? If it was your partner, that is likely no problem. Neither would children in many cases.

Ok, so should we transfer all points to SG now?

Depends - are you trying to escape the VA auditors?

Also, could you spend all your miles in 3 years?

 

[Ausbt]

Also, could you spend all your miles in 3 years?

Yes. Similar amount to Denali and plans to book for 2018. I think that decision makes itself then.