xONE4 split

[serfty]

I think this could be the reason MileageMonkey validates the itinerary but OW RTW Itinerary Planner don't. The later thinks that surface sector consumes a segment. Can anyone put a light on this?

sparoy

This is a known bug (Feature? "Correction Opportunity"?) with the oneworld planner.

By all means use the oneworld planner and it's inbuilt timetables to generate your route with flights numbers, dates, time etc, but put it through milagemonkey to be sure.

 

[JohnK]

I think this could be the reason MileageMonkey validates the itinerary but OW RTW Itinerary Planner don't. The later thinks that surface sector consumes a segment. Can anyone put a light on this?

MileageMonkey also validated SYD-DRW-PER-SYD, which is not allowed.

Rules change, software is not updated quickly enough, programming errors etc. I don't think any software tool is 100% error free.

 

[sparoy]

Would transit (less than 24hr) count as using a segment?
I'll be visiting LHR twice, one to stay for a few days and the other as a transit.
I originally wanted to do SYD-ADL-PER in 1 day and returning PER-SYD on another day, but it'll take me to more than 20 segments according to the system, so it'll be SYD-PER-CBR (unless of course transit is not counted as segment)

Here's my revised itinerary:

1: SYD-LAX: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to North America without immediate transit & departure)
2: LAX-BOS: 1st of 1 (North America Transcon)
*2: LAX-BOS: 1st of 6 (North America)
3: BOS-ORD: 2nd of 6 (North America)
4: ORD-SLC: 3rd of 6 (North America)
5: LAS-LAX: 4th of 6 (North America)
6: LAX-DFW: 5th of 6 (North America)
7: DFW-YVR: 6th of 6 (North America)
8: YVR-LHR: intercontinental
9: LHR-FCO: 1st of 4 (Europe)
10: FCO-BCN: 2nd of 4 (Europe)
11: BCN-ATH: 3rd of 4 (Europe)
12: ATH-LHR: 4th of 4 (Europe)
13: LHR-SIN: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to Asia without immediate transit & departure)
14: SIN-NRT: 1st of 4 (Asia)
15: NRT-CGK: 2nd of 4 (Asia)
16: CGK-HKG: 3rd of 4 (Asia)
17: HKG-SIN: 4th of 4 (Asia)
18: SIN-SYD: intercontinental
19: SYD-PER: 1st of 4 (Southwest Pacific)
20: PER-CBR: 2nd of 4 (Southwest Pacific)

Congratulations!! Valid itinerary!!! - (49527 miles)

Line 13 says intercontinental entry to Asia without immediate transit & departure.
What does it mean?
Can I save a segment if using LHR as immediate transit?
Thanks.

sparoy

 

[adrian]

I won't be doing YVR-LHR on BA until next year May 2008. Is there a good chance that they will have New New Club World by then?

If you look on Flyertalk on the BA page, there is a sticky listing the routes with New Club World. I think it is updated fairly regularly.

 

[dragonman]

SYD-PER-CBR (unless of course transit is not counted as segment)
sparoy

I have spent some time looking at this and my understanding is they count as segments but not stopovers. You cannot return to the swmw city twice for an extended stopover but you can transit multiple times through the same city.

Here is my DONE5 for dec/jan coming:

1: SYD-SIN: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to Asia without immediate transit & departure)
2: SIN-NRT: 1st of 4 (Asia)
3: NRT-HKG: 2nd of 4 (Asia)
4: HKG-BOM: 3rd of 4 (Asia)
5: BOM-HKG: 4th of 4 (Asia)
6: HKG-JFK: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to North America without immediate transit & departure)
7: JFK-LAX: 1st of 1 (North America Transcon)
*7: JFK-LAX: 1st of 6 (North America)
8: LAX-DFW: 2nd of 6 (North America)
9: DFW-YVR: 3rd of 6 (North America)
10: YVR-DFW: 4th of 6 (North America)
11: DFW-YUL: 5th of 6 (North America)
12: YUL-DFW: 6th of 6 (North America)
13: DFW-FRA: intercontinental
14: FRA-HEL: 1st of 4 (Europe)
15: HEL-DXB: 2nd of 4 (Europe)
16: DXB-HEL: 3rd of 4 (Europe)
17: HEL-LHR: 4th of 4 (Europe)
18: LHR-CPT: intercontinental
19: CPT-JNB: 1st of 4 (Africa)
20: JNB-SYD: intercontinental
Congratulations!! Valid itinerary!!! - (59261 miles)



cheers

 

[serfty]

... 13: LHR-SIN: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to Asia without immediate transit & departure) ...
Line 13 says intercontinental entry to Asia without immediate transit & departure.
What does it mean?
Can I save a segment if using LHR as immediate transit? ...

"1st of 1" means you are allowed one of these and this segment uses it; That's all. Since it's your entry into Asia and is followed by your 4 Asian segments you do not need to worry.

If you fly a segment you 'fly' it. That's it; it counts as one segment and you can have between 2 and 19 others. So there is no 'segment' saving by using an airport as 'immediate transit'.

 

[sparoy]

"1st of 1" means you are allowed one of these and this segment uses it; That's all. Since it's your entry into Asia and is followed by your 4 Asian segments you do not need to worry.

If you fly a segment you 'fly' it. That's it; it counts as one segment and you can have between 2 and 19 others. So there is no 'segment' saving by using an airport as 'immediate transit'.

OK thanks for the clarification serfty.
I just have to make sure all the flights are direct, so no stopover in between, otherwise they cost a segment for each stopover.

sparoy

 

[sparoy]

If you look on Flyertalk on the BA page, there is a sticky listing the routes with New Club World. I think it is updated fairly regularly.

Thanks adrian. There seems to be some mixed reviews about the New Club World in that listing. Hope most things will be sorted out by next year.

 

[serfty]

OK thanks for the clarification serfty.
I just have to make sure all the flights are direct, so no stopover in between, otherwise they cost a segment for each stopover.

sparoy

Note that a segment may have more than one take off and landing.

e.g. QF1 goes SYD-BKK-LHR; if you book it SYD-LHR it counts as one segment even though it stops at BKK. Book it SYD-BKK and BKK-LHR and that's two segments, even if it's the same aircraft.

 

[sparoy]

LAX-LHR on BA will be much nicer than on AA. I just did the flight, and got the New Club World seats, which were great - I would rate it as the best business class flight that I have ever had. I credited the points/SCs to QF for that flight only, and all the rest of my flights to AA. Unless you really, really need those additional points in your AA account, I would take the BA flight. and credit it to QF.

The US ATW agent told me that I cannot credit LAX-LHR BA flight to QF
She suggested that I should take the AA flight instead. She also hinted that AA would not be too happy to do the DONE4 booking/ticketing and not getting the LAX-LHR segment booked on AA.
Can anybody put a light on this?

sparoy

 

[simongr]

The US ATW agent told me that I cannot credit LAX-LHR BA flight to QF
She suggested that I should take the AA flight instead. She also hinted that AA would not be too happy to do the DONE4 booking/ticketing and not getting the LAX-LHR segment booked on AA.
Can anybody put a light on this?

sparoy

The agreement between AA and BA is that you can not earn/redeem points on each other's program/flights - so no AA points on BA and no BA points on AA. QF has nothing to do with this.

Not sure what they mean when she says that AA "would not be too happy not getting the LAX-LHR flight" - perhaps they should have a better product

They should just book what you tell them.

 

[serfty]

... Can anybody put a light on this? ...

The US ATW agent told me that I cannot credit LAX-LHR BA flight to QF ...

She is wrong; BA can't credit to AA and AA can't credit to BA trans-atlantic US/UK but QF is fine on either carrier. Here's the QF Crediting for a LHR-LAX flight I took on BA last year:

 13 MAR 06   BA 283 BUSINESS 12MAY07    5,439   1,360   5,439  13,598     140 
             LONDON/LOS ANGELES

... She suggested that I should take the AA flight instead. She also hinted that AA would not be too happy to do the DONE4 booking/ticketing and not getting the LAX-LHR segment booked on AA. ...

Is seems the bulk of the divvy up of the xONEx fares goes to those carriers who's flight numbers are used to operate the intercontinental segments. There have been many reports on FT that AA agents are reluctant to ticket an itinerary where AA do not have at least one of these in the routing.

To get around this some FFers book the AA flight initially, then after flying the first segment use the (supposedly) free facility to change these segment(s) to the carrier of their desire.

I did something similar with an xONEx booked by a CX TA and changed a JFK-HKG segment booked on CX to an AA codeshare (on the same flight) so I could earn an additional 8,070 QFF points in status bonus.

 

[Keith009]

LAX-LHR on BA can totally be credited to QFF.

Looks like you got the ATW desk after 4pm US CT. Otherwise - it sounds like you spoke to a TA instead of the ATW desk itself?

You might want to try calling them early morning CT, approximately 11pm-midnight our time. Even better if you get the All Star AAgent... who actually told me that I'm better off being booked on QF108 instead of the AA7366 codeshare "because you stand a chance of being upgraded" but I was only too happy to give the revenue to AA because of employees like her - I mean, in all seriousness the chances of being upgraded are squat.

 

[NM]

Note that the restriction for BA FF members not earning BA miles on AA flights, and AAdvantage members not earning miles on BA flights only applies to flights between London and the USA. Flights to/from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and South America are ok.

 

[sparoy]

I ended up with the following itinerary for our DONE4 ex NRT:

1: NRT-JFK: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to North America without immediate transit & departure)
2: JFK-BOS: 1st of 6 (North America)
3: BOS-ORD: 2nd of 6 (North America)
4: ORD-SLC: 3rd of 6 (North America)
5: SLC-LAS: surface
6: LAS-LAX: 4th of 6 (North America)
7: LAX-BOS: 1st of 1 (North America Transcon)

LONG BREAK IN SYD

*7: LAX-BOS: 5th of 6 (North America)
8: BOS-LHR: intercontinental
9: LHR-FCO: 1st of 4 (Europe)
10: FCO-MAD: 2nd of 4 (Europe)
11: MAD-ATH: 3rd of 4 (Europe)
12: ATH-LHR: 4th of 4 (Europe)
13: LHR-SYD: intercontinental
14: SYD-PER: 1st of 4 (Southwest Pacific)
15: PER-ADL: 2nd of 4 (Southwest Pacific)
16: ADL-SYD: 3rd of 4 (Southwest Pacific)
17: SYD-PVG: 1st of 1 (intercontinental entry to Asia without immediate transit & departure)
18: PVG-HKG: 1st of 4 (Asia)
19: HKG-SIN: 2nd of 4 (Asia)
20: SIN-NRT: 3rd of 4 (Asia)

Congratulations!! Valid itinerary!!! - (45136 miles)

We used QF awards SYD-NRT to commence the trip as well as LAX-SYD to have a long break in SYD (which we are now)

We were planning to use QF awards again to continue SYD-LAX and NRT-SYD at the end of the trip, but I was thinking may be there's a better way?

A couple of possible alternatives that I had in mind:

Buy a cheap return SYD-NRT ticket and use QF awards for NRT-LAX to go to LAX and use the return NRT-SYD ticket at the end of the trip from NRT.

Buy a Circle Pacific 22 fare with something like SYD-LAX-NRT-CGK-SYD and either throw away LAX-NRT segment (is it possible?) or use QF awards NRT-LAX at the end of the DONE4 and continue LAX-NRT-CGK-SYD on Circle Pacific (would be a bit like mileage run?)

I believe AA awards cost the same one way or return. Is it possible to do SYD-LAX and NRT-SYD on AA awards?

I would appreciate any other possible ways to maximise mileage with minimal cost. Thanks.

 

[NM]

Buy a cheap return SYD-NRT ticket and use QF awards for NRT-LAX to go to LAX and use the return NRT-SYD ticket at the end of the trip from NRT.

That would work.

Buy a Circle Pacific 22 fare with something like SYD-LAX-NRT-CGK-SYD and either throw away LAX-NRT segment (is it possible?) or use QF awards NRT-LAX at the end of the DONE4 and continue LAX-NRT-CGK-SYD on Circle Pacific (would be a bit like mileage run?)

That would not work. You must fly all segments in sequential order, so cannot just "throw away" one segment in the middle of the trip. When you turn up at NRT for the next segment you will find the ticket has been cancelled. And you cannot have a trans-Pacific surface segment on that fare.

I believe AA awards cost the same one way or return. Is it possible to do SYD-LAX and NRT-SYD on AA awards?

Not sure about this one. If it can be done it would have to be as an AA OneWorld award and I expect the distance would be calculated to include the LAX-NRT surface segment.

 

[Dave Noble]

Not sure about this one. If it can be done it would have to be as an AA OneWorld award and I expect the distance would be calculated to include the LAX-NRT surface segment.

With an open jaw, the surface distance is not taken into account when determining the mileage. I think that there is an issue here in that the open jaw distance may be too long in relation to the flown segments

Dabe

 

[NM]

With an open jaw, the surface distance is not taken into account when determining the mileage. I think that there is an issue here in that the open jaw distance may be too long in relation to the flown segments

Dabe

Certainly would be hard to convince the AAgent that its really a single journey with a small surface segment :shock: .

 

[sparoy]

Thanks NM and Dave for all your replies.
At least I know that I have one other alternative option would work.