www.choice.com.au/complain = Complane!

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Re: Complane.com.au

I think it's a great move. But strange reporting of the campaign on 'The Project' tonight. ALL the panel were unanimous in saying that passengers should not complain and should wear delays. One panelist made the point that 100 years ago we would have been happy just for the plane to take off at all, so we shouldn't mind sitting on the ground now for extra time. Another panelist mocked the idea by suggesting that compensation shouldn't stop with airlines but apply to things like taxis... then we'd all be rich.

Dunno what to make of the comments... is the network opposed to the Choice campaign? Are the celebrities handcuffed by upgrades and VIP treatment? Are the celebrities enjoying pre-departure beverages while the rest sit 10 abreast with little legroom?

On the face of it this isn't a campaign that someone should object to. Interesting why they all did here.

Worth noting that the panel specifically mentioned that the Choice campaign was for delays caused by the airline - not for those outside the airline's control.
 
Re: Complane.com.au

If people want to "complane" they should send a letter to the local member to remove ridiculous curfew regulations that many of our major airports have. Also cc in Macquarie airports and Airservices Australia to improve infrastructure.

While they are at it… a email to God to complain about the weather.
 
Re: Complane.com.au

If people want to "complane" they should send a letter to the local member to remove ridiculous curfew regulations that many of our major airports have. Also cc in Macquarie airports and Airservices Australia to improve infrastructure.

While they are at it… a email to God to complain about the weather.

Living in inner Sydney where the airport is so close to the city and the flight path covers many scores of suburbs, I'm quite content with the curfew thanks. It will never be lifted, hence why they are looking at the second Sydney airport at Badgery's Creek, away from the metropoli
 
Re: Complane.com.au

Well I'm all for dragging the complaints away from AFF and people actually sending them to the airlines!. But seriously, making it easier for someone to complain to the airlines doesn't actually mean the airlines will deal with them any better.

Not sure this initiative helps the fact that airlines are slow, if not downright reluctant, to address complaints, and frequently all you get is a form letter back with little real appreciation of the mater at hand?
 
Re: Complane.com.au

Well I'm all for dragging the complaints away from AFF and people actually sending them to the airlines!. But seriously, making it easier for someone to complain to the airlines doesn't actually mean the airlines will deal with them any better.

Not sure this initiative helps the fact that airlines are slow, if not downright reluctant, to address complaints, and frequently all you get is a form letter back with little real appreciation of the mater at hand?

The only advantage it might have is to collect data which eventually might sway politicians to introduce an EU261 equivalent for Australia.
 
Re: Complane.com.au

Living in inner Sydney where the airport is so close to the city and the flight path covers many scores of suburbs, I'm quite content with the curfew thanks. It will never be lifted, hence why they are looking at the second Sydney airport at Badgery's Creek, away from the metropoli

I also lived close to the airport for many years, however I am of the opinion that the airport was there first and I bought in that area knowing that aircraft fly over . Aircraft these days are a lot quieter than when the curfew was brought in. I would still hear aircraft take off at 2am from SYD ( air ambulance etc)

I was a weekly user of the airport and many times we were held on the ground due to the 80 movements in a hour were met and we had to wait for the clock to tick over to allow the next slots to open. I have also had to spend a night in Melbourne ( return) as we would have missed the 11pm slot by 10mins . The delay was caused by Sydney summer storms. Not expecting SYD to be a 24/7 operation, but the curfews mention really need to be looked at and more flexibility provided
 
Re: Complane.com.au

I also lived close to the airport for many years, however I am of the opinion that the airport was there first and I bought in that area knowing that aircraft fly over . Aircraft these days are a lot quieter than when the curfew was brought in. I would still hear aircraft take off at 2am from SYD ( air ambulance etc)

I was a weekly user of the airport and many times we were held on the ground due to the 80 movements in a hour were met and we had to wait for the clock to tick over to allow the next slots to open. I have also had to spend a night in Melbourne ( return) as we would have missed the 11pm slot by 10mins . The delay was caused by Sydney summer storms. Not expecting SYD to be a 24/7 operation, but the curfews mention really need to be looked at and more flexibility provided

People bought knowing the curfew was in place. The government would be up for millions in compensation to all owners who bought property on that basis.

What we need is a second Sydney airport with a high speed rail link from the CBD.
 
Re: Complane.com.au

The only advantage it might have is to collect data which eventually might sway politicians to introduce an EU261 equivalent for Australia.
Hopefully this is the final outcome. At the moment complaints are scattered all over the place, with no real quantifiable data. ( Apart from what the airlines hold and they are not going to share!)
 
Re: Complane.com.au

The only advantage it might have is to collect data which eventually might sway politicians to introduce an EU261 equivalent for Australia.
Well I do agree with this point but not sure politicians really care about this much.
 
Re: Complane.com.au

I also lived close to the airport for many years, however I am of the opinion that the airport was there first and I bought in that area knowing that aircraft fly over . Aircraft these days are a lot quieter than when the curfew was brought in. I would still hear aircraft take off at 2am from SYD ( air ambulance etc)

I was a weekly user of the airport and many times we were held on the ground due to the 80 movements in a hour were met and we had to wait for the clock to tick over to allow the next slots to open. I have also had to spend a night in Melbourne ( return) as we would have missed the 11pm slot by 10mins . The delay was caused by Sydney summer storms. Not expecting SYD to be a 24/7 operation, but the curfews mention really need to be looked at and more flexibility provided
We've been in the same house for over 42 years. There were no flight paths above us until the late 90's thanks to a certain government that shifted existing flight paths away from lower North Shore. It got worse early 2000's when the noise was unbearable and the house used to shake. We never received compensation. I used to call daily and complain.

I haven't been there regurarly for 8+ years but not so much noise now.

If the curfew were to be lifted for limited flights through the night the strict condition I would impose is take off and landings over water only. Not possible then fly in circles until curfew is lifted or wait until curfew is lifted to take off.
 
Re: Complane.com.au

Well I do agree with this point but not sure politicians really care about this much.

Probably not - until such time as there are votes in it. On paper it seems like a fairly easy win for politicians... just about everyone flies... from essential services workers to execs. The only 'losers' are the airlines, and not sure they'd have much public support? Baffling though why celebrities are so against this... loss of free upgrades if they don't support the airlines?
 
I heard them advertising this on the radio this morning. I wonder how it is going or how effective it has been?
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

I heard them advertising this on the radio this morning. I wonder how it is going or how effective it has been?
Well apart from getting some publicity now and again, it would appear that Choice have no teeth to actually change anything so I would suggest we have no real evidence of effectiveness.
 
EU261 seems to go too far to me.....JMO... but OK.... lets have something like that...

But lets also apply it to EVERYTHING! Why should airlines be the only ones punished for failing to live up to "promises"...??

I doubt I have EVER seen my doctor at the scheduled time... I have sat waiting in other offices too and watched appointment times fly by......Government offices for one!

Why do OTHER business/organisations not get their feet held to the fire the way airlines do? Most don't have anything like the operational difficulties airlines face...yet many seem completely incapable of making their much simpler schedules work...

If YOUR business was subject to financial sanctions every time delivery dates were not met.... or appointment times not honoured (within a reasonable timeframe...and sorry...for an office based organisation that should be about 5 minutes) would you think that "fair"...and if not... why not?

Just curious if those in business would be happy to be subject to similar rules....and if not... what rational justification is there for not being held accountable that way?
 
Our business has contracts with a series of incentives and penalty clauses for delivery of our product to customers. So no I don't have a problem with that.

The other examples you have picked such as government services are usually unaccountable or "less" accountable government monopolies or services that are sometimes non-optional - a little bit more difficult to unpick but sometimes subject to some form of customer charter or avenues of appeal.

I agree with you though that some "reasonable" allowances for time related things - such as weather/volcanoes and air traffic control strikes etc etc in the case of airlines is fine, but a lot of people here are interested in the involuntary downgrade from a higher cabin to a lower cabin. That's a different matter than timing/delays issue, that's a matter of a service provided lower level than the service originally sold - i.e. pay for a BMW upfront and have a VW delivered = pay for J class seat and get Y class seat.
 
EU261 seems to go too far to me.....JMO... but OK.... lets have something like that...

But lets also apply it to EVERYTHING! Why should airlines be the only ones punished for failing to live up to "promises"...??

I doubt I have EVER seen my doctor at the scheduled time... I have sat waiting in other offices too and watched appointment times fly by......Government offices for one!

Why do OTHER business/organisations not get their feet held to the fire the way airlines do? Most don't have anything like the operational difficulties airlines face...yet many seem completely incapable of making their much simpler schedules work...

If YOUR business was subject to financial sanctions every time delivery dates were not met.... or appointment times not honoured (within a reasonable timeframe...and sorry...for an office based organisation that should be about 5 minutes) would you think that "fair"...and if not... why not?

Just curious if those in business would be happy to be subject to similar rules....and if not... what rational justification is there for not being held accountable that way?

This isn't comparing like with like.

'Normal businesses' delivering late are subject to consumer protection laws, or if those aren't suitable, you can take the business to court under normal contract law.

Doctors and the like aren't the same as airlines... if your doctor is running 15 minutes late you can walk out and you pay nothing.

Airlines have adhesion contracts - entirely in their favour with little or no recourse for the passenger. If the airline is running an hour late you can't simply cancel and get a full refund. Or if they cancel their flight you might get a refund, but not enough to walk over to another airline and buy a last-minute walk up fare.

Just like consumer protection laws have made it easier for consumers (you don't have to go to court to get a retailer to fix a fault), EU261 has done the same. And EU261 has made it easy for international flights where the Montreal Convention already applies. That Convention says passengers can claim compensation from the airlines for delays... but good luck trying to get that enforced in court with the associated costs. EU261 simply makes it easy for passengers to claim, like consumer protection does for faulty goods.

Airlines may face operational difficulties, but the ones subject to an EU-type claim are caused by their own doing, or are part of doing business as an airline. Weather and ATC and other unforeseen events are not covered by EU261. The have 25 minute turnarounds for domestic flights (their choice), they work planes harder than ever (their choice), they have grown in size with huge logistics (crew, catering, baggage), they oversell - all their choice. Some airlines like BA have back-up planes sitting on standby to cope with delays or cancellations of the scheduled fleet. If another airline chooses not to do that then again, it's their choice. But why should the passenger suffer?

The consequences for passengers for airlines cancelling flights is huge... disrupts holidays and other plans, and the financial burden is high for passengers wanting to make alternative arrangements. That's why we need effective consumer protection that doesn't require going to court every time we want redress.
 
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