Wind Generation and the Electricity Grid

[JessicaTam]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I believe when it is too windy that the windmills need to be turned off. Whether that is because maybe they will become new flying missiles or they will generate too much energy - well - who knows. We are currently being treated like mushrooms anyway and I don't trust anything any politician says these days. Scarily - I reckon Pauline Hanson might actually be the one to state the facts.

However that is not the transmission system, this is the generation side of things. And yes, there are limits to the wind speed the wind turbines can operate in. But there are engineering limits on all sorts of different machines, so that is entirely acceptable.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

However that is not the transmission system, this is the generation side of things. And yes, there are limits to the wind speed the wind turbines can operate in. But there are engineering limits on all sorts of different machines, so that is entirely acceptable.

But not when that seems to be the main source of generation here. I feel like SA has become the leech state - for GST and power.

 

[VPS]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I did hear that a major wool scourer in Adelaide had to stop processing work when the power price went up to a hair raising level. That is all the SA news we heard in Perth. Demolishing the Adelaide power station is not looking like the smartest move of 2016.

Adelaide's Michell wool plant chooses shutdowns over high spot power prices - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) - the media do like to sensationalise - he is paying less price for power and obviously there was a spike last week and he decided to stop rather than pay the eyewateringly high price

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

:?:

I am not aware of any recent occasions when the transmission system has failed due to "excessive input". The two major blackouts in SA in recent months have both been unrelated to solar/wind. The first one was due to 20-odd transmission towers collapsing due to a storm event, thus bringing down the network. The most recent one was due to a failure to operate a gas fired generator that was ready and waiting. Ostensibly for financial gain.

Even if the towers didn't fall ~ 1000MW of wind power generation stopped in minutes.
And many experts do not believe the towers coming down had anything to do with the blackout.
As to them falling the winds at Port Augusta at the time of the towers falling was less than 80KPH with an occasional gust to 90kph-speeds BOM says should blow twigs off trees.I have previously posted the links to these facts.

Back in 2008 the now retired manager of the Munmorah power station in NSW predicted that with wind power generation in excess of 20% risked the integrity of the grid even to the point of towers falling.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Adelaide's Michell wool plant chooses shutdowns over high spot power prices - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) - the media do like to sensationalise - he is paying less price for power and obviously there was a spike last week and he decided to stop rather than pay the eyewateringly high price

They could afford it anyways.....

 

[cove]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Security of power supplies is essential. What has happened in South Australia is quite shocking. We do need to get a full explanation and have our Federal and State Governments working quickly to secure fair priced and reliable power supplies.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Well known left wing rag indicates President Trumble is playing politics to appease Climate Change deniers rather than address the problem sanely. Who would have guessed.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...enewable-energy-not-to-blame-for-sa-blackouts

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Security of power supplies is essential. What has happened in South Australia is quite shocking. We do need to get a full explanation and have our Federal and State Governments working quickly to secure fair priced and reliable power supplies.

There was a review about the state blackout released a few days ago. I was disgusted (along with most people who think Australia is not a developing/third world country) as it said basically that we (the people) must take responsibility for our own power supplies - ie get a generator! So we go back to non green because our own state can't guarantee power.

Well known left wing rag indicates President Trumble is playing politics to appease Climate Change deniers rather than address the problem sanely. Who would have guessed.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...enewable-energy-not-to-blame-for-sa-blackouts

Yeah, well, so many different reasons have been given to us that we no longer trust any of them - even so called independent ones as they each have their own agenda. Listen to our Power Minister and tell me if you trust a word that he utters. This was the guy who was Road Transport Safety Minister for all of five minutes when it was revealed he had something like 50 speeding fines issued. His name is now Turbo Tom.

"In 2009, he was elevated to cabinet.[SUP][2][/SUP] Throughout his time as a minister he has been Minister for Finance, Minister for State Development, Minister for Mineral Resources and Energy and Minister for Small Business. Forty-seven days after being appointed Minister for Road Safety, Koutsantonis was forced to apologise for his "unacceptable" driving record which listed 58 traffic offences and over $10,000 in fines. He subsequently resigned the portfolio.[SUP][3]"[/SUP]

 

[docjames]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

There was a review about the state blackout released a few days ago. I was disgusted (along with most people who think Australia is not a developing/third world country) as it said basically that we (the people) must take responsibility for our own power supplies - ie get a generator! So we go back to non green because our own state can't guarantee power.



Yeah, well, so many different reasons have been given to us that we no longer trust any of them - even so called independent ones as they each have their own agenda. Listen to our Power Minister and tell me if you trust a word that he utters. This was the guy who was Road Transport Safety Minister for all of five minutes when it was revealed he had something like 50 speeding fines issued. His name is now Turbo Tom.

"In 2009, he was elevated to cabinet.[SUP][2][/SUP] Throughout his time as a minister he has been Minister for Finance, Minister for State Development, Minister for Mineral Resources and Energy and Minister for Small Business. Forty-seven days after being appointed Minister for Road Safety, Koutsantonis was forced to apologise for his "unacceptable" driving record which listed 58 traffic offences and over $10,000 in fines. He subsequently resigned the portfolio.[SUP][3]"[/SUP]

Surely that makes him more qualified (with real-world insight into why people speed)!

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

"In 2009, he was elevated to cabinet.[SUP][2][/SUP] Throughout his time as a minister he has been Minister for Finance, Minister for State Development, Minister for Mineral Resources and Energy and Minister for Small Business. Forty-seven days after being appointed Minister for Road Safety, Koutsantonis was forced to apologise for his "unacceptable" driving record which listed 58 traffic offences and over $10,000 in fines. He subsequently resigned the portfolio.[SUP][3]"[/SUP]

That's the problem with politicians these days, anyone with any experience is dumped!

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Surely that makes him more qualified (with real-world insight into why people speed)!

Well, he acted like a true politician and denied they were his!

That's the problem with politicians these days, anyone with any experience is dumped!

This is true.

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

After the SA blackouts last year, the PM and his ministers were told it was not the renewables at fault. Question time will be fun today.





Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and ministers were told wind not to blame for South Australia blackout

I've since learnt that the Chairman of AEMO at a conference in sydney a week ago did indeed blame the windfarms for the blackout.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I've since learnt that the Chairman of AEMO at a conference in sydney a week ago did indeed blame the windfarms for the blackout.

Of course he did. His job should be on the line. It's his job to anticipate and provide services for the continuity of supply. They failed catastrophically.

Australian Energy Market Operator: "There has been unprecedented damage to the network (ie bigger than any other event in Australia), with 20+ steel transmission towers down in the north of the State due to wind damage (between Adelaide and Port Augusta). The electricity network was unable to cope with such a sudden and large loss of generation at once. AEMO's advice is that the generation mix (ie renewable or fossil fuel) was not to blame for yesterday's events – it was the loss of 1000 MW of power in such a short space of time as transmission lines fell over."​

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I've since learnt that the Chairman of AEMO at a conference in sydney a week ago did indeed blame the windfarms for the blackout.

Do you have any alternative facts for that?

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

It was the ride through settings of the windfarms that caused them to shut down and that triggered the blackout.

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

After the SA blackouts last year, the PM and his ministers were told it was not the renewables at fault. Question time will be fun today.





Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and ministers were told wind not to blame for South Australia blackout

And do you know just who the public servants were that gave that advice?some just might have a vested interest in not blaming renewables.

 

[amaroo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

That's the problem with politicians these days, anyone with any experience is dumped!

They don't make em like they used to!

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

It was the ride through settings of the windfarms that caused them to shut down and that triggered the blackout.

Alternative Facts, drron. That's not what the FOI request reveals. It's time you supported your arguments with documented facts rather than just sophistry. Or maybe just post pictures of coal on AFF?

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

It was the ride through settings of the windfarms that caused them to shut down and that triggered the blackout.

I am not sure how wind turbines shutting down and not generating power caused towers to fall over? Yes, the wind in Pt Augusta was recorded at about 80-90kmh but weather stations are not thick on the ground in that part of the world. Localised weather event, anyone? Much the same as those that have occurred in Victoria's NE from time to time that require the BOM to give "estimated" wind speeds as they didn't occur where the weather stations were.

 

[Pushka]

The totally off-topic thread

I understand that the turbines were cut before the towers fell over. Perfect storm and all that. Are there power towers in Qld? Would have thought they would have been built to withstand stronger winds to be honest.