Will Sydney's new lockout laws change your travel plans?

[N860CR]

As a resident of Darlinghurst for a fairly long time, I don't have an issue with lockouts/early closes - however I believe it will not improve anything at all.

My issue is with mandatory sentencing. I've dealt with, in a professional sense, the issues that come from actions of NSW police and they're disgusting to say the least. My trust in them is next to 0 and to allow them to have even more power over people's lives is frightening.

 

[harvyk]

As a resident of Darlinghurst for a fairly long time, I don't have an issue with lockouts/early closes - however I believe it will not improve anything at all.

My issue is with mandatory sentencing. I've dealt with, in a professional sense, the issues that come from actions of NSW police and they're disgusting to say the least. My trust in them is next to 0 and to allow them to have even more power over people's lives is frightening.

It's not the police who are enforced to impose mandatory sentencing, it's the magistrates and judges who are forced to use a minimum term of imprisonment for any crime which fits under these new laws, regardless of the severity or mitigating circumstances.

 

[MartinMemo]

I still think the lockouts are unreasonably early; especially for us "youth" (<30yrs with little or no responsibility, no dependents, mostly single). Its just obvious that the people that have control over this (the NSW government) are the same sort of people who are no longer part of the scene.

Look at it like this -

Every year there are rumors it will be the last Schoolies; Before my Schoolies, this was the worst idea in the world - after my schoolies, who cares?

Every now and then there is debate over lifting the legal drinking age to 21; when I was under 21 this was the worst idea in the world - after I turned 21, who cares?

I feel like the people who go out to have a good time are being punished because the generation in power doesn't really know how to fix the problem, or care about the impacts of their laws. Obviously if tomorrow I was to leave the clubbing scene forever, I wouldn't care.

Alanslegal said earlier that we will always figure out a way around it, and I guess we will. Personally, apart from looking into new/larger/24 hour receptionless hotels I am also looking further out in Sydney, like Erskineville - but if it comes down to it, I don't see myself flying to SYD to then stay in the burbs and club in Erskineville over flying to CBR where the nightlife is basically lawless.

It's sad, because though I have never lived in SYD (and dont think I ever would), it was always my escape. I have been flying to SYD on the regular, long before I even knew about QFF or Velocity, simply because it gave me an escape from normal life/school/uni/work/living at home for a few short days. Sydney is always the last stop on my birthday tour (usually MEL-BNE-OOL-SYD, this year MEL-CBR-ADL-MEL-OOL-BNE-MEL-SYD) because I have always had so much fun there, and so many first there.

Oh well, life goes on. Time to find a new, potentially more grown up escape!

 

[anat0l]

I still think the lockouts are unreasonably early; especially for us "youth" (<30yrs with little or no responsibility, no dependents, mostly single). Its just obvious that the people that have control over this (the NSW government) are the same sort of people who are no longer part of the scene.

Well, would you think that people who are in the scene have a good idea of how to address the problem?

To be perfectly honest, apart from the blunt, "this sux," remarks you would expect on the social media waves, I think there actually hasn't been any attempt of note to seek the opinion of those who are in the scene as to what they would do to address the issues (including the possibility that there is nothing you can do about it).

I think one thing that should be noted is that legal punishment / sentencing is not only supposed to act as a deterrent to act on crime, but it is also meant to be a punishment for doing the crime. Speeding and drink driving - you may now know what the penalty is exactly even as you're right before the judge, but it doesn't mean you should be given no punishment just because you weren't aware of the consequences (potential or otherwise). Here, the sentence is the punishment perhaps rather than the deterrent which should have discouraged you to act in the first place (although other factors like common sense and the like are assumed to have been substituted for legal deterrents, which is sad).

Oh well, life goes on. Time to find a new, potentially more grown up escape!

When you get to that point, my friend, you may not be clubbing any more.

 

[MartinMemo]

When you get to that point, my friend, you may not be clubbing any more.

When i get to the point where I no longer want to go out clubbing, I may as well retire and move to the hills sounding the CBD of LST.

 

[JohnK]

Not going to affect my travel plans.

But I think it is great idea that clubs are forced to close earlier at 3:00am although an earlier closing time would be more desirable to me.

 

[harvyk]

Well, would you think that people who are in the scene have a good idea of how to address the problem?

Actually, there are quite a few people in the clubbing scene who have some really good ideas on what to do. The problem is that unlike some of the "concerned citizen's" groups which have the ear of the gov't, the clubbing scene is typically made up of younger people, who tend to have the political clout of a wet blanket.

Not going to affect my travel plans.

But I think it is great idea that clubs are forced to close earlier at 3:00am although an earlier closing time would be more desirable to me.

Can I ask exactly how does it affect you personally if a club stays open to later than 3:00am?

 

[JohnK]

Can I ask exactly how does it affect you personally if a club stays open to later than 3:00am?

Because I am sitting there playing pokies until 6:00am closing and drinking until bar closing time of 5:30am. Before that when clubs were 24 hours it was not uncommon for me to be home at 9:00am.

And before these kids that go clubbing stsrt whinging they should learn to behave like adults and more importantly learn to handle drinking alcohol.

 

[drron]

No effect on me for sure.I am safely tucked up in bed well before 0300 unless an OMG o'clock plane departure.
I doubt the laws will change anything.
Maybe even RSA might have added to the problem-ie troublemakers are ejected or refused service so out on the streets in an ugly mood where very few have any clue how to treat them.

To me the best idea is to increase the legal age for drinking.But I say this from a medical angle.Lots of evidence alcohol is dangerous to the adolescent brain-
NIAAA Publications
The Influence of Substance Use on Adolescent Brain Development

I'm sure though there would be an outcry if it was attempted.

 

[harvyk]

Because I am sitting there playing pokies until 6:00am closing and drinking until bar closing time of 5:30am. Before that when clubs were 24 hours it was not uncommon for me to be home at 9:00am.

And before these kids that go clubbing stsrt whinging they should learn to behave like adults and more importantly learn to handle drinking alcohol.

I don't quite follow you there, you like to go to clubs (I'm assuming RSL's or Casino's) and play pokies at all hours with a drink in hand, and yet if an 18 year old wants to go to a club to dance the night away that's not acceptable?

I can also quite safely say that 99% of "kids" who go to clubs know how to handle drinking alcohol (again, it's that pesky 1%), and before anyone tells me otherwise, I've seen many an adult (aka in their 30's, 40's, 50's etc...) get just as wasted as any teenager could.

 

[samh004]

No... because I've only ever considered flying to MEL for that purpose, not SYD

 

[MartinMemo]

Yeah - I get pretty trashed pretty often, but no one drinks like my mum. At the end of the day neither of us have been involved in alcohol related violence - apart from out age, the only difference is I prefer to get wasted at a club and meet new friends where as she would rather do it in the comfort of her own home with her long time friends.

 

[anat0l]

Actually, there are quite a few people in the clubbing scene who have some really good ideas on what to do.

You know some of their ideas? Please share! (Seriously - I wouldn't mind hearing some different ideas)

 

[N860CR]

It's not the police who are enforced to impose mandatory sentencing, it's the magistrates and judges who are forced to use a minimum term of imprisonment for any crime which fits under these new laws, regardless of the severity or mitigating circumstances.

The police issue the charge however. Many of which, in my experience, are purely an abuse of perceived power. The "on the spot" fines have made this far worse. While a magistrate may eventually hand down the sentence, things like mandatory sentencing add substance to a poor/unjust police charge (and many don't have the resources to fight it properly)

 

[harvyk]

To me the best idea is to increase the legal age for drinking.But I say this from a medical angle.Lots of evidence alcohol is dangerous to the adolescent brain-
NIAAA Publications
The Influence of Substance Use on Adolescent Brain Development

I'm sure though there would be an outcry if it was attempted.

Increasing the legal drinking age won't really do a lot.

I remember when I was 16, getting hold of booze was no problems. I knew which bottles didn't ID check, I knew which clubs had bouncers which turned the other way. Worst case scenario, I had a lot of friends of friends who would happily buy it for me. When I was an U18, I had no problems getting hold of booze if I wanted to get blotto. Before you say "but what about the parents", well I had a pretty deep and authoritative voice when I was 17, on more than one occasion I remember speaking to friends parents (who didn't know me) over the phone to convince them their little darling wanted to go to a "sleep over".

The worst part is that such a ruling is likely to push drinking from (what should be) fairly well regulated clubs, out into parks and other not very safe places at night, plus you then have the degree of who do you call if things do go wrong? Since illegal drinking is obviously illegal, calling for help is something you really didn't like doing, since depending on who came, you could be in for a pretty bad time.

 

[MartinMemo]

You know some of their ideas? Please share! (Seriously - I wouldn't mind hearing some different ideas)

You'd be surprised how many of us think the solution is (and want the solution to be) a significant increase in police presence. If I'm drunk walking home alone I'd feel a lot safer being stopped by a cop than an aggressive stranger (unless I was on the Gold Coast).

The fact is that no one I know understands the random violence because we aren't involved - we know it exists, we know that the streets are dangerous. More friendly cops = a better night for everyone.

 

[samh004]

What about taking a New Zealand-approach and letting parents buy their 'little darling' a drink when dining out etc? I think that's allowed so long as you don't get them drunk, so from whatever age you're teaching them about responsible drinking such that it's not such a novelty when you get to be a teenager... of course, that means you have to trust the parents, but then you have to trust them for so many other things anyway!

 

[harvyk]

You know some of their ideas? Please share! (Seriously - I wouldn't mind hearing some different ideas)

Well one of the idea's which is floated around is mandatory ID scanners on entry to all pubs and clubs, and the sharing of blacklists.

Better and cheaper public transport from clubs back home. In CBR we had the night rider service over December, from memory last year it was free, but even when it wasn't it only cost around the $5 mark, it'd take people from the city to the nearest bus stop to their house, I've used it in previous years and it was great. This is a service which should run every weekend and public holiday of the year. As an added bonus, it meant there was no excuse for drunk driving.

Actually enforce RSA rules, and put limits on the number of drinks one person may buy at a time.

These are all idea's which my cousins mates (my cousin is a DJ, and who goes clubbing in SYD at least once a month) have flagged on facebook.

 

[MartinMemo]

Scanners helped a lot in Brisbane - drink limits didn't really when nightclubs have more than one or two bars.

 

[samh004]

Actually enforce RSA rules, and put limits on the number of drinks one person may buy at a time.

That would be wonderful, but contentious.

How would they do it? Undercover inspectors watching the bartenders? What would the penalties be, would they be given the power to hurt the club enough that they learn to enforce it, or would they laugh at the fine as they roll in more money? Etc.

Scanners helped a lot in Brisbane - drink limits didn't really when nightclubs have more than one or two bars.

In NZ they have breathalysers that you simply talk in front of. Perhaps bars could buy them, train the bouncers to use them and set an industry-wide standard on where the cutoff is. More than driving a car but not tons more, perhaps.