Will Sydney's new lockout laws change your travel plans?

[MartinMemo]

I doubt there are many on here who travel for the same sort of reason I do; being to go out clubbing in new and different places - but I am interested to know if Sydney's new lockout laws (now being introduced 24 Feb) will make you re-think your travel plans?

Will you now be less likely (or more likely) to go to Sydney now that bottle shops will close at 10pm and bars/clubs at 3am? Or will this not impact you at all?

Personally, after crunching the numbers and seeing I can do a weekend from MEL - PER/CBR/ADL/BNE/AKL for the same amount of cash (and in most cases a lot less), I don't see myself jumping on any VA MEL-SYD sale fares any time soon for a weekend away!

 

[ChasingDaylight]

Not in the slightest (though I do go clubbing, best yet was London). I think the new restrictions (pity not as strict as the Newcastle ones) are fine; one can simply 'go out' earlier on.

 

[MartinMemo]

One can simply 'go out' earlier on.

With QLD lockout @ 3 we found ourselves going out @ 10 or earlier - its kind of hard to get home from work, pre drink etc and get out before 10 -all to be told you have go to (realistically) think about getting a cab home between 1am-2am. Pulp Fiction lasts longer.

 

[williamsf1]

This law will not work.... People will just change where/ how they party.. Places like Pyrmont and Newtown will become the new "after hours" locations. Not letting people into venues after 130am will have them wondering the streets looking for a place thats open ( its only a short walk from George st to the Pyrmont bridge hotel open 24Hrs or the casino)

As for the 2 recent tragic "king hit" deaths ... did they not occure at 2100hrs and 2230hrs ? No idea how these new laws will stop things like that.

 

[anat0l]

Unlike your youthfulness, MartinMemo, a lot of my clubbing days are behind me.

Especially would need a good reason to go to SYD just for that. I'd prefer to chat with friends at a more quiet or classy bar. A couple of do's held in SYD some of us kicked on, but we would have never got close to the 3am closing time, let alone new 1am lockout. Some of us also retire to the friend who has the best hotel room and have a few drinks there. The bottle shops closing at 10pm is a bit silly IMO, but most of us come prepared beforehand anyway.

So, no, I wouldn't rethink travel due to these new laws.

What is more concerning than the "reduction in entertainment" is the actual effectiveness of these new laws to help address the violence it is supposedly in response to. My opinion is that these laws will not have much effect, barring perhaps the removal of voluntary intoxication as a mitigating circumstance in court.

 

[MartinMemo]

Already talking to people on Facebook about organising hotel parties over Mardi gras now to compensate.

 

[Alanslegal]

As a Sydney-sider who frequents Sydney's well bar and club scene most Friday and Saturday and more nights, these laws are pretty much a knee-jerk reaction by the government. The media has been covering this quite significantly and lays the blame solely on alcohol and/or drugs. Sadly, the government had to respond and rush laws through to show to the public "enough was enough, and we are doing something" even though statistics (released by the government) fail to show any rise in violent on Sydney streets, let alone NSW. In fact, its quite the opposite where is is proven that crime including serious crime including non-domestic related violence , assaults were decreasing.

NSW Bureau of Crime of Statistics, where it reports and categorises crime in NSW. Focus on Sydney City statistics.

NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research - Bureau of Crime Stats And Research New South Wales

http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/agdbas...4l3/nswrecordedcrimestatisticssep2013_sa4.pdf

I live in Sydney and go out late most Friday and Saturday nights/mornings. I am into EDM and it's been an awesome summer with sooooo many world class DJ's arriving in Sydney and Australia. For example, Laidback Luke was in town last week, this week is Dash Berlin and then the following week will be Nervo, our favourite twin sister DJs from Melbourne who are making this world one big dance floor. Missed them in Ibiza last September so looking forward to seeing them soon.

The 1:30am lock out is pretty sad really. I mean, for the above events for example, Laidback Luke didn't start playing till 1:00am. Dash Berlin this week won't start his set until, I think, 3:00am so calling for a 1:30am lockout, well that sucks especially if you only want to go see the star DJ. Now you have to loiter/hang around hours before the main event happens.

The 3:00am stopping of service, again that's cough idea. Bars and clubs enforce RSA legislation very well and many do it very thoroughly, so why should a sensible person who is still good enough to drink at 3:01am not allowed to be served a drink. I have had female friends who have been refused service of drinks after one drink, at 630pm. So those clubs are being very responsible in refusing service to anyone who appears intoxicated. So they will do exactly the same at 3:01am and beyond.

Now, even though the last few assaults were high profile in the media. Good looking young boys, Ok, now if the victim wasn't so good looking and wasn't so young, maybe it would have been aired on the news at 6:17pm instead of 6:00pm. Again the media. Those incidents occurred before the 10:00pm closure of bottle shops and a long way before the 1:30am restriction.

Anyway, it doesn't stop me from heading into town. After all, a 2:59am I (and all my mates) can still order half a dozen drinks each so we can six more until we get kicked out of the club.

Ps. Don't get me started about mandatory sentencing which I highly disagree to. Having recently worked with several Defendants, knowing what can happen or some of the tactics used by the NSW Police Force I can see why I am oppositional to these idea. And I say this from someone who once worked for police members when we made worker's compensation claims for injured officers.

 

[anat0l]

Already talking to people on Facebook about organising hotel parties over Mardi gras now to compensate.

Just don't be too loud (or pick a good property with solid walls, and preferably chip in for a big room) and try to be a bit discreet on people going in (e.g. slip them in by batches and spread over a length of time - preferably give one or two of them a key and do a bit of a key dancing).

A good apartment may be an alternative to hotels.

Otherwise, you may find you'll end up on the bad side of the property and possibly with the police knocking.

 

[MartinMemo]

Just don't be too loud (or pick a good property with solid walls, and preferably chip in for a big room) and try to be a bit discreet on people going in (e.g. slip them in by batches and spread over a length of time - preferably give one or two of them a key and do a bit of a key dancing).

A good apartment may be an alternative to hotels.

Otherwise, you may find you'll end up on the bad side of the property and possibly with the police knocking.

Yeah might have to swap back to the Meriton - we are pretty good at sneaking people up though. Prob for the best I have a few diff hotels booked during MG just in case!

 

[MartinMemo]

The 1:30am lock out is pretty sad really. I mean, for the above events for example, Laidback Luke didn't start playing till 1:00am. Dash Berlin this week won't start his set until, I think, 3:00am so calling for a 1:30am lockout, well that sucks especially if you only want to go see the star DJ. Now you have to loiter/hang around hours before the main event happens.

The 3:00am stopping of service, again that's cough idea. Bars and clubs enforce RSA legislation very well and many do it very thoroughly, so why should a sensible person who is still good enough to drink at 3:01am not allowed to be served a drink. I have had female friends who have been refused service of drinks after one drink, at 630pm. So those clubs are being very responsible in refusing service to anyone who appears intoxicated. So they will do exactly the same at 3:01am and beyond.

I can see no difference between a club closing a 3am or at 5am, except 3am is too early, and the issue with shows as noted above. The last few shows I have gone to the support act didnt start till 1am, and the main at 2 or 3.

 

[harvyk]

Whilst these laws have zero affect on me personally (it's been years since I've been clubbing, and never been clubbing in Sydney), I have been unlucky enough once in the past to be on the receiving end of someones right hook... In my case it was at 1am, it was away from the clubs (pretty close to home) and AFAIK the person who delivered the punch had not been drinking in any real way.

JJJ hack had an interesting story where they stopped calling it "Alcohol fueled violence" and started calling it "D*ckhead fueled violence", which is a pretty apt way of putting it. I have a pretty large group of friends, and I have been out drinking with most of them. Despite having drunk an absolute boot load of grog with most of them, none of us have ever felt the need to punch on. In fact I can think of several occasions when we either walked away from a fight, and I've even watched a friend of mine defuse a fight as it was getting started (the bar shouted him free drinks for the rest of the night to say thanks).

What needs to be done is protect the general drinking public from "D*ckhead fueled violence". Make it so that should you be caught causing problems (eg if you start a fight), you are not only are you banned from every bar / club / grog shop in the country (needs to be a national thing, since getting around the place is pretty cheap), you are also banned from been in a designated "night spot" area during certain hours without good reason (eg they would be banned from Kings Cross between the hours of 6pm and 6am, good reasons could being on public transport which routes through one of those areas with no intention of leaving the vehicle), with the punishment for even been in an designated area an automatic arrest and a night in the cells. This leaves the other 99.99% of the general public who know how to go out and have a good time, without assaulting anyone to enjoy their night in peace.


Just my 2c

 

[Dan_]

Is 3am not cab change over time as well. Good luck getting transport out of the city with everyone leaving bars en masse

 

[MartinMemo]

I have to agree - I have many messy nights out with lots of people, and the only violence I have ever really seen (ironically) was from police.

MEL locals will know this beautify rotating billboard on Punt Rd, Richmond -

http://wonderersheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Alcohol-does-not-cause-violence.jpg
http://wonderersheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Blame-and-punish.jpg

 

[boomy]

Does anyone go to Sydney for its nightlife?! It's a great city with a lot to offer but it doesn't really have exiting nightlife compared to other big cities in Asia and Europe.

 

[under the radar]

I have to agree - I have many messy nights out with lots of people, and the only violence I have ever really seen (ironically) was from police.

MEL locals will know this beautify rotating billboard on Punt Rd, Richmond -

http://wonderersheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Alcohol-does-not-cause-violence.jpg
http://wonderersheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Blame-and-punish.jpg

no surprises that the ONLY (your word) violence you and your 'messy' mates see comes from the police!! it doesn't mean the police instigate it...anyone who has a frontline job is trained in frontline self defense(even F/As)...and different 'levels of abuse' require different 'levels of action'

 

[MartinMemo]

Does anyone go to Sydney for its nightlife?! It's a great city with a lot to offer but it doesn't really have exiting nightlife compared to other big cities in Asia and Europe.

I have been a lot - largest LGBTI scene in Australia, 1hr flight; I can finish work, get to the airport, get to the hotel and be ready by 9pm if i eat in the lounge and fly out sunday afternoon after having enough sleep, but also allowing enough time for a chapel st sunday session.

 

[Blackswan]

Meriton have very strict "No Party Policy" - and they verbally explain it (particularly during MG) upon check-in.

Strict No Party Policy - Meriton Serviced Apartments

 

[MartinMemo]

Meriton have very strict "No Party Policy" - and they verbally explain it (particularly during MG) upon check-in.

Strict No Party Policy - Meriton Serviced Apartments

Yeah I am well aware of this one - I was banned from the Meriton a few years back (disagreement with the owner, Harry T), and they explained it to everyone upon check in. That being said, plenty of times we have had 6-10 people in our 2 bedroom apartments on the balcony listening to music at a conversation level, drinking & talking till the sun comes up (even during mardi gras) and not had a problem.

 

[anat0l]

An interesting take on the new laws was that it is said that increasing current penalties will not act as any effective deterrent. Combined with everyone else who lives in the Sydney hotspots (viz. residents), it seems that's why the government thinks lockdowns and earlier closing times / nil alcohol service are the way to go.

Again, I applaud the government pushing for voluntary intoxication to be removed as a mitigating circumstance. It would be interesting to find out why the threat of longer jail time or convictions shouldn't act as a deterrent, unless the argument is (a) if you're silly enough to commit the act at the time, you're probably not rational enough to think what are the consequences; and (b) deterrents don't target the problem happening in the first place directly, i.e. someone goes to jail and gets a conviction, but either way someone has been punched out in the process, possibly killed (although that would then result in an upgrade to manslaughter or murder).

I can see why some are in a twist about mandatory sentencing, although this depends on how the burden of proof shifts (and it shouldn't). Still, some may claim it's a human rights infringement.

The extreme I can see the government going to in order to achieve a real change is to be extremely forceful and unforgiving, a la the "bikie laws" recently introduced in QLD, with police given sweeping powers. This will likely result in a significant rise in youth detention.

Apart from also the loss of business hours for bars and clubs combined with increased volatility of licences, I don't see the new laws being a large threat to the nightclub scene in SYD. So if people want to go to SYD specifically for the experience, I doubt they'll be tremendously put off. As someone has already shown, the crime which triggered this significant reaction by the government would have happened anyway under the proposed changes.

 

[harvyk]

An interesting take on the new laws was that it is said that increasing current penalties will not act as any effective deterrent.

I agree, if you are in the middle of thumping someone, you probably know that you could be done for assault, but you probably have no idea what the penalty is. If we where to put it into more relatable terms for those who don't go around punching random strangers on weekends, you could put it into similar terms as drinking and driving or speeding.

When you drive a car, you know that if you speed or drink and drive you could be caught. With exception to double demerit weekends (where all you really know is the points punishment is double), most people who have either sped or drank and driven but not been caught know that it is the wrong thing to do, but would most likely have no real idea what the punishment would be. They know it'll cost them a few points, and their wallet will most likely be several hundred dollars lighter. But the actual schematics of how much lighter is not known off hand.

Likewise, when you have a person about to start a fight, they know that they could get caught, but what that entails is a complete unknown, therefore it's hardly a deterrent.

The other problem with having minimum sentences is it removes judges discretion. Whilst you could argue that it's not exactly a bad thing, there are some pretty out of touch magistrates and judges out there, the other side of the coin is that it mainly punishes the people who simply made a stupid mistake who would have been eligible for say community service (and would have never done it again), where as the habitual offenders, aka those who love to go out and fight, who are in and out of the legal system frequently, well their punishment remains unchanged, since the judge was likely to recommend a long prison sentence already. (paraphrasing from a lawyer JJJ's hack had one to discuss this very issue)