Why oh why QF

[wallacej]

.... Virgin Blue now provides a choice and in my view, a much better one at that.

I agree, I have been a QF regular silver for longer than I care to remember, however, I am reduced to only domestic flights now and have converted my business to 100% DJ... I only wish I had made this decision before signing up for QP membership....

DJ staff are "natural" they enjoy (or certainly appear to) enjoy their job.. I could go on, but I have flown almost 50 flights this year alone, all domestic, and have decided that I like DJ more than Qantas.. and reasons have been put in other threads so I won't bore those here with the detail again... but of course if anyone asks......

​

 

[JohnK]

Everybody has different experiences.

I have only had 4 flights on SQ, 2 returns SIN-KUL. I know it is not much of a sample size but there are some negatives there.

The seats are way too narrow for westerners. Just as well the flight was only 50 minutes. It is OK if you are normal size but if you are wider than normal then very uncomfortable.

On my first flight, SIN-KUL, the luggage went AWOL. I got into KUL at around 8:00am without luggage after wandering around SIN airport for 3 hours as I got in on QF5 early in the morning. Luckily my luggage made it to the hotel at around 5:00pm but as it was less than 12 hours I was not entitled to anything. I didn't want compensation but a change of clothes would have been nice.

Service, the SQ air hostesses did their best in the limited time available but then again so did the coughet Air hostesses on the BKK-HKT flight.

My mother recently flew SYD-SIN-ATH return. Not a bad experience but we requested vegetarian meals. Only one problem was that the vegetables in the meals were very scarce.

Lets not forget the recent enhancements to PPS. This has not affected me but please ask kpc, Kiwi Flyer and others for their opinion.

Would I fly SQ again? Probably, as there are points in my mothers Kris Flyer account and she is unlikely to use them so I may end up getting a return flight BKK-SIN to sample more of SQs wonderful WHY product.

 

[Platy]

Lindsay, what's a KIPOX fare?

 

[Dave Noble]

Lindsay, what's a KIPOX fare?

The KIPOX is a K class Instant Purchase One Way Excursion ticket ... More commonly known as a K class flexi saver

Dave

 

[dajop]

The seats are way too narrow for westerners. Just as well the flight was only 50 minutes. It is OK if you are normal size but if you are wider than normal then very uncomfortable.

According to Welcome to SeatGuru! Your Guide to Airplane Seats and In-flight Amenities, SQ seat width on 777-200's (which are used on the SIN-KUL sector) are 17.5". This is same as SQ's 747's. They are greater on the 777-300's (18") and 777-300ER's (19"). For comparison, QF have a listed width of 17.2", so if SQ's seats are way too narrow for westerners, what are QF's?

Personally I find SQ service in whY far superior to many airlines, and certainly superior to QF, and based on a sample size >10 on both SQ & QF (medium-long haul). On SQ, usually within 30 mins of take off I have a coughtail in my hands, and on my third when the meal comes out, on QF you get your first drink with the meal. And never on and overnight flight in whY have I had a FA come around and top up my glass of water whilst I was sleeping, except on SQ.

However, in J I think QF & SQ are a lot closer, although the service on SQ is superior. On several flights I have taken in the day/afternoon to SIN, I've been furiously working away on the laptop and asked for a Coke. And that glass never emptied, as soon as it was down to about 1/4 full a FA would magically reappear with a can of coke to top it up. Subtle and just a little thing, but definitely a noticable difference.

But - from the $$ they are charging QF must be doing something right. Two recent bookings I've made - first MEL-BOM then MEL-PEK both in J. On the BOM flights QF were about 25% more than SQ, and to PEK they were charging double that of SQ (including flights with SQ's new business class product). Time savings on QF not significant as both were routings via SYD, but would be ex-SYD. which would probably account for the fare difference.

 

[Keith009]

I think people are bickering about 2 of the finest carriers in the industry here... Let's please get some perspective!

And interesting how some very strong opinions of SQ, both positive and negative, are formed based on n=1 style sample sizes and regional short hauls...

 

[oz_mark]

Having flown PER-SIN-PER in economy of QF (A333) and SQ (777), i do find that I struggle to pick one of them as being superior to the other. Both have some little plusses and minuses, but overall not much to pick. Also, had little trouble in fitting into either seat.

One of my criticisms of SQ I have had, was that the service could seem a little robotic, although I did not notice this on a recent flight (KUL-SIN), but this could have been affected by the fact it is such a short sector, but the welcome on-board seemed more natural that other flights.

But overall, if you were to ask me which one was better, really I am unable to give a clear winner.

 

[mainly tailfirst]

According to Welcome to SeatGuru! Your Guide to Airplane Seats and In-flight Amenities, SQ seat width on 777-200's (which are used on the SIN-KUL sector) are 17.5". This is same as SQ's 747's. They are greater on the 777-300's (18") and 777-300ER's (19"). For comparison, QF have a listed width of 17.2", so if SQ's seats are way too narrow for westerners, what are QF's?

Far be it for me to accuse Seatguru of being wrong, but something smells funny about those numbers. AFAIK (and seatguru confirms), all SQ 777 are 3-3-3. So why would SQ have up to 1.5" difference in width in Y on the 777? Do they really need the extra 13.5" in aisle width for short haul? From memory, the 772 from ADL-SIN Y seat felt considerably wider than the usual Y seat you get on a QF 747.

What am I missing?

mt

 

[NM]

Far be it for me to accuse Seatguru of being wrong, but something smells funny about those numbers. AFAIK (and seatguru confirms), all SQ 777 are 3-3-3. So why would SQ have up to 1.5" difference in width in Y on the 777? Do they really need the extra 13.5" in aisle width for short haul? From memory, the 772 from ADL-SIN Y seat felt considerably wider than the usual Y seat you get on a QF 747.

What am I missing?

mt

I don't put any weight on seat width measurements as reported by things like Seat Guru. They do not take into account the design of the seat and in particular the width of and desig of arm rests. I don't believe there is a consistent method for measuring seat width as there is for seat pitch. Some measure width between seat centres, while some measure width between arm rests, and some include the arm rests in the width in the width measure.

And an economy seat that is comfortable for one person may be painful for someone else. Economy seat comfort is a very individual things. Just as every person is built differently, each person will find different aspects of economy seats that are comfortable and things that are uncomfortable. And I believe the only way to know if a seat is going to be comfortable for you is to try it out on a long flight. I can sit in almost any seat fpr a 1 hour flight, but it may be a very different story for a 12 hour flight.

 

[Evan]

No way i could tell much difference between the SQ and QF seats, mostly similar but in some instances i feel QF has a bit more pitch. I think it depends what plane your on.

I also find CX seats good, mostly, one exception is some A330's with fixed armrest rows. (i moved ! the IFE controller is on side of seat, and it protrudes !) i should stress that this is only some A330's of CX and only the fixed armrest rows.

I prefer QF since so far they have stuffed me around a lot less and look after me better with itinery changes etc.

I also dislike SQ krisflyer miles expiry and i think limited availability (ie less luck that QF getting points upgrades or points J seats)

Regardless of all this, i can tell i have to agree with the person that we are argueing about some of the best airlines in the world ! Just don't ever fly some of the lesser airlines.

E

 

[JohnK]

According to Welcome to SeatGuru! Your Guide to Airplane Seats and In-flight Amenities, SQ seat width on 777-200's (which are used on the SIN-KUL sector) are 17.5". This is same as SQ's 747's. They are greater on the 777-300's (18") and 777-300ER's (19"). For comparison, QF have a listed width of 17.2", so if SQ's seats are way too narrow for westerners, what are QF's?

I am not sure what aircraft type SQ was using on SIN-KUL routes in 2004 but I do not think it was a 777. I could be wrong though. Advertised measurements mean absolutely nothing to me. I can tell by sitting on a seat whether I am comfortable or not and measurements are not going to change that comfort level.

Getting off-topic here slightly but for what it is worth business class seat width on EK 777-300 and CX 777-200 is much narrower than a Finnair MD-11. I feel they are unacceptable business class seats. I have no idea the width measurement provided by seatguru but no matter what is reported it will not change my experience.

 

[QF WP]

But I'd rather fly a 773, -ER, or 772 rather than an MD-11 (all things being equal, ignoring FF program issues)

How often have you flown on EK J class to determine whether it's acceptable of not?

 

[Evan]

But I'd rather fly a 773, -ER, or 772 rather than an MD-11 (all things being equal, ignoring FF program issues)

In some ways i would prefer the 777 but i must admit i have to agree, the MD-11 is a better seat (for me anyway), not as much noise, more space, and with the software updates by all accounts the MD-11 is just as safe as any other plane (we all hope anyway). the toilets in the MD-11 are tiny ! no chance of anything much going on of interest in them.

All my CX flights have however been the regional J class (when not in whY which is most of the time, who can justify 9-10 times the cost for J on a 3 or 4 hr flight) but i am not impressed much with the regional J CX product, atleast for the cost.

And i notice somebody reported QF were only 18.5" for premium economy on the A380's but if its like the BA WT+ or better then i would say measurements are not very important, it is how you feel in the seat.
Provided the same number of seats across a plane for each then there can't be too much different. I always see 31" seat pitch for QF whY but i am positive i have had more space on QF seats than SQ that quote 32".

Also i have been on a 777 to KL before on SQ, some flights do use them, i think its an extension to PVG.

E

 

[oz_mark]

Also i have been on a 777 to KL before on SQ, some flights do use them, i think its an extension to PVG.

For SQ, one species or another of the 777 is the rule rather than the exception on SIN-KUL flights (they only have 777, 747 and a handful of A340's at them moment)

 

[Keith009]

For SQ, one species or another of the 777 is the rule rather than the exception on SIN-KUL flights (they only have 777, 747 and a handful of A340's at them moment)

Usually 2 class regional config 772s, with the exception of the first and last flights of the day (SQ102/103, SQ118/119) which are usually 2 class long haul 772ERs with Spacebeds in J. The J cabin will be sold as F, not unlike the MH 332s and 734s deployed on the same route. Not very sure about SQ102/103 but I've often seen SQ118/119 rotated straight on to European long haul destinations like FCO and ATH.

There is also the odd SQ 744 on the route with the J cabin sold as F and the actual F cabin closed off.

 

[pauly7]

I am not sure what aircraft type SQ was using on SIN-KUL routes in 2004 but I do not think it was a 777. I could be wrong though. Advertised measurements mean absolutely nothing to me. I can tell by sitting on a seat whether I am comfortable or not and measurements are not going to change that comfort level.
.

I have to agree with this, I treat the measurements as a very loose GUIDE at best, much prefer peoples travel reports and my own experiences etc. Inches difference mean nothing alot of the time.

 

[pauly7]

And i notice somebody reported QF were only 18.5" for premium economy on the A380's but if its like the BA WT+ or better then i would say measurements are not very important, it is how you feel in the seat.
Provided the same number of seats across a plane for each then there can't be too much different. I always see 31" seat pitch for QF whY but i am positive i have had more space on QF seats than SQ that quote 32".

E

Quite bizarre, after 'experiencing' SQ economy, I swore to myself that it felt smaller than QF, went and looked up the measurements, just like you and was incredulous that apparantly QF has less space. Definitely did not feel like that...

Don't believe the hype...

 

[dajop]

Regardless of what seat guru says, in my experience the seats on SQ's (and many similarly configured 777's) have a quite generous seat width. I'm pretty sure they're wider than EK's 777 seats in 3-4-3 config (compared to many carriers 3-3-3 or 2-5-2 configs). When did SQ stop flying the A310's? I thought it was well before 2004, so can't see that SQ would be using anything other than 777 on the SIN-KUL route.

I think I'll take my tape measure as I have flights on both QF & SQ coming up over the next month or so!

 

[Keith009]

Quite bizarre, after 'experiencing' SQ economy, I swore to myself that it felt smaller than QF, went and looked up the measurements, just like you and was incredulous that apparantly QF has less space. Definitely did not feel like that...

Don't believe the hype...

Very aircraft dependent. The SQ 777s definitely offer more width in Y than the same on any QF aircraft. The SQ 744s are where things get a bit squishy.

SQ 345s on the non stops to LAX and EWR only has Executive Economy, SQ's Y+ product - so no comparison there until QF Premium Economy goes into service.