Why oh why QF

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Chucksta, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. Chucksta

    Chucksta Active Member

    Mar 19, 2006
    I'm sorry to say this, but is it just me or does QF suck? Please don't take what I am going to say the wrong way. It's just an observation after flying on SQ.

    I recently flew on SQ from SIN to CGK in Y on a return award ticket in Y.
    12,000 odd points plus taxes of $98 SGD.

    I doubt very much QF awards would be as competitive.

    Anyway.... it has been 2 years since I have flown SQ... all I can say is WOW.. why on earth should I put up with QF?

    1. The aircraft are newer
    2. The economy seats are more comfortable
    3. The meals seem tastier than QF J (sorry Neil Perry, I won't be trying Rockpool anytime soon)
    4. AVOD actually works!
    5. Sincere customer service (SQ: seem to sincerely care about their pax. QF: well pax are like a chore to the cabin crew, especially when i flew F)
    6. Online seat selection when booking
    7. Designated and implemented priority boarding calls for PPS, Elite Gold etc.

    I seriously doubt I will try maintaining my WP status next year.

    I think I will now start flying SQ as much as I can.


  2. Evan

    Evan Established Member

    Dec 26, 2006
    SIN / MEL
    Everybody has different expereince for me, a lot of that is the reverse !

    I find SQ can't give a **** about passangers and have almost left me stranded twice in countries due to there stuff ups ! (I can give details if you want)
    AVOD sure it works and almost always does for me in QF as well, but QF have much better selections IMHO.
    And i have not been able to easily get award seats on SQ yet i have been on QF.

    I think its just life sometimes.

    Right now though i will admit i spend most of my flying time on CX. (Located in Singapore)

  3. Platy

    Platy Guest

    Yes, Qantas do SUCK big time. I just sent off an 8 page letter of complaint to Lesley Grant, their manager of Product and Customer Services, ironically because I have been waiting 5 weeks for her to reply to an earlier email of complaint which was triggered by her emailing me market research surveys when I'm not supposed to get them.

    The problem is that their frequent flyer scheme is better than Virgin's for people like me who travel mainly domestic with occasional international journeys. So we put up with bad service, overcrowded lounges (see other thread) etc for our beloved gold and platinum status and a few air miles. This is exactly what the CHopice magazine survey found earlier this year.

    Qantas customer service has withered in the 6 years since Ansett's demise.

    IF Virgin became part of Star Alliance the game would be seriously on!!!

    ALSO when Qantas revamp (enhance!!!!!???) their frequent flyer scheme, if they dilute the value points (harder to get, more points to burn on a flight, hiher bar on gold/platinum status) even further, they will further undermine the rationale for continued loyalty.

    Before all the qantas lovers on this blog howl me down, here is my latest example of bad service:

    Sept 5 QF167 SYD-CNS - value today $1200 one way in business class, value 5 years ago $850 (ie 50% increase) - time was that champagne would be offered on this flight upon boarding and with the breakfast. No more fellow travellers (unless you know to ask for it and then inists when they try saying no to you) the cut backs at qantas have bitten into their service levels. Also no greeting from the CSM as a Platinum, a small consideration that costs them nothing, makes you feel very welcome. Not that day. The Dreamtime seats on those 767s have a movie selection, an excellent filler for a 3 hour flight. Not that day becuase the CSM couldn't be botheted to turn the thing on. "The flight's too short for a movie". What crap! This is just plain BAD SERVICE.

    Common Virgin, link into Emirates fully (with status etc) or join Star Alliance so myself and any others like me can escape the sullen spell of being a Qf Platinum!!!!!
  4. cssaus

    cssaus Active Member

    Dec 13, 2004
    You got my vote:cool:
  5. smithym

    smithym Intern

    Jun 3, 2006
    I can't see Virgin joining *A or Skywards or any other global allaince as they are pretty much on their way to there own 'Virgin' global alliance. There is now Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Blue, Virgin America, Pacific Blue and soon V Australia, you can see that they cover alot of the globe. All they have to do now is interline baggage and FF programs and they will have a pretty strong network. Well thats what I can see (hope) happening anyway.
  6. QF WP


    Jun 20, 2002
    Flight Map:
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    I can't quite understand that with a sample size of 1, you would look to change your FF Alliance of choice.

    Still, it may say something about loyalty....
  7. Platy

    Platy Guest

    Lindsay, Chuksta lists membership as Platinum for QF FF, so presumably is in a good position to make a judgment about the perceived lack of service on QF! (Perhaps you meant n=1 on SQ?)

    Likewise I have been Platinum for several years, gold for several years before that, and a QF FF for 14 years.

    In some cases I have flown the same route and flight numbers many times over, over a period of years, so am in a good position to judge declining service standards.

    Certainly NOT making assessments on n = 1!!!

    The recent thread on people with QF flight number being short changed on Deathstar is an excellent example of the lack of service and asssocated arrogant response from the Qf Group airlines.

    Personally, I don't believe we should put up with that sort of crap, and certainly if we perceive some value in being QF customers should make our feelings known in the hope of influencing the recalcitrant managment at QF.

    Here in CNS for example, the local community lobbied QF vociferously when they tried to remove J class on domestic flights into CNS from SYD and won the battle (although QF are now sneakily removing J from the CNS-DRW route) - consider that many suppliers here are trying to market and supply a premium travel product.

    The other recent thread, very interesting as many have said in their responses, on QF club standards similarly intrigues me since to me it wasn't a discussion about status, "elitism", whether people should be paying for membership etc., rather the very simple case of QF NOT supplying the product people had either earned through frequent travel or actually paid for, by denying sufficient space and catering. QF cost cutting to the detriment of service levels we experience as customers.

    Wake up and smell the roses, guys, QF are diddling you through such bad service!!!!! And actually treating us all as fools by ASSUMING that they have our loyalty!!!

    You'll all be whingeing and whining when the FF scheme gets diluted again in a few months time....;)
  8. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    Here's why oh why QF.

    Keep things in perspective.

    The product rates pretty highly, there are few consistently better airlines.

    Despite the hype, they do have a good safety record.

    Despite the corporate intrigue, the majority ownership is Australian, and the majority of jobs they provide are for Australians.

    So there you have it, one of the worlds undoubtedly best, safest and most economically important Australian companies.

    Given the choice...Why would you fly with anyone else?
  9. acampbel

    acampbel Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Ah yes ... "the choice".

    I was going to open a new thread but this one will do for a general "when I were a lad" rant. I am starting to plan in earnest for the next family jaunt O/S, and was putting a few dummy bookings into the award page to see what dates are available. I am trying to get 2 award seats through to Scotland, around about mid September.

    Guess what? No fracken seats!!!

    Please .. please ... please all you Qantas apologists :- do not go on about popular routes and peak times and limited availability. Qantas are taking our money and then telling us what we can spend it on (if at all). They make millions selling points through airfares and CC schemes, and then like an insurance company make it as hard as possible to get anything back.

    I understand that shareholders (or rather share price given the recent appalling attempt to sell the farm for a song) are supposed to be #1 in a pure capatalist agenda, but aren't customers and staff supposed to come next? We don't even make the top 10!!!

    So .... if any long lost uncle wants to "borrow" 300K points then please get in contact, because it seems that unless you are a Platinum member on the lookout for an upgrade they are basically worthless. I am better off putting some money against part of the $2K in fuel fines I will be up for.

    Didn't the ACCC get up Qantas about this a few years ago? Whither now the watchdog?



  10. futaris

    futaris Established Member

    Jul 21, 2006
    I see SIN-DUB 8 Sept 08 on BA. Add on a OZ-SIN and no problems.

    The QFF redemptions site sometimes is stupid with connections, so do each segment separately if you can, via multi-segment. Also consider flying to somewhere in europe, eg FRA and buying a separate ticket...

    Otherwise feel free to off load some of your points to your cousins (ie me). :)
  11. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

    Jul 10, 2006
    AAdvantage - RTW in J for two people 300K points and A$500 in charges. Only segment where I couldn't get J was HKG-SYD - a route dominated by QF ;)

    Hmm and people are still fighting against me on AAdvantage ;)
  12. Platy

    Platy Guest

    Good on ya Andrew!

    And this is the big financial CON that QF are up to. Basically, the potential liability for all of those points, which are yet to be redeemed does NOT show on their books......UNTIL you make a redemption booking.

    Thus QF are revenue raising by selling points to partners (Avis, Hilton, etc), without any immediate cost incurrred AND giving access to their almighty direct marketing lists to partners (ie your name, address, etc).

    Since the cost side of the ledger only comes into play when you as a customer actually book a redemption flight it is clearly in their financial interests to "dissuade" you from actually redeeming those points.

    Thus the number of award seats is limited as far as possible without totally pissing everyone off (but close to it). IF they actually filled all those empty seats with redemption or upgrade passengers they would suffer a greater liability EVEN THOUGH you have justly earned your points and there are seats free on the aircraft.

    Now to price gouge as much as possible, the redemptions seats become harder and more costly through:

    - periodically reducing points earned for a given flight
    - periodically increasing points required for a certain flight
    - charging fuel surcharges on redemption flights
    - disallowing full service (meals etc) on redemption flights on Deathstar
    - not allowing upgrades on certain discount fares
    - not allowing upgrades if staff (duty or subload) want a seat
    - not having a flexible enough catering system to allow upgrades even when seats are free since they have budgeted for limkted food in J class (there is no slack)

    In short QF wants you to get caught up in the loyalty of earning the points - they make money on that - but don't want you to actually use them - they lose money on that!!!

    Now some seats will be released within a week or so of departure date. Having just returned from a redemption flight to the UK I can attest to the fact that these will be mostly on British Airways (notably on their crappy 777 service via SIN). If you are flexible and have status you may be able to get a seat...otherwise check out the price of Etihad which have been advertising sub $5,000 business flights to Europe for flat bed seats.

    Now it is rumoured that Qantas will open up all available seats for redemtpion, just like Air NZ and Virgin Blue currently do. HOWEVER, they will PROBABLY use this as an excuse to further downgrade the value of individual points.

    Bottom line, pay for the flights to Scotland, chosing an airline/travel class according to the cost/value/comfort that suits your needs and use up your QF points as and when you can - best value is for upgrades to business class etc.

    Otherwise, try an overnight through Tokyo (Narita) an put two sectors togther (eg. SYD-NRT and a NRT-LHR-Scotland),..OR try using the MULTI-STOP booking option and if flights are within 24 hours of each other you will not be pinged for the extra points
  13. markis10

    markis10 Veteran Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    BNE & SYD
    Interesting sample for a comparison, afterall the meals come out of the same kitchen for both SQ and QF ex SIN, BTW the fleet age of SQ is 6 years versus 10.8 for QF.
  14. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    You mean dominated by CX don't you, they have more seats each day SYD-HKG than QF and MEL-HKG they have double the daily seats.
  15. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

    Jul 10, 2006
    Look I was making a really good point until you confused it all with facts...
  16. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    Sorry about that;)

    But seriously, I have done my share of griping about QF in this place but I have not found any other airline to be consistently better.

    As to the ff program, yes it has it's frustrating deficiencies but between myself, wife and kids we have picked up I think 26 frequent flyer flight segments this year, all in Business (except on Qantas link) 4 of them being OS, thats over $50k of flights at retail.

    So "good for you", you may think, well its just the facts.
  17. Yada Yada

    Yada Yada Established Member

    Dec 6, 2004
    It's what I've been hoping and praying for. When V-Australia starts to fly to the USA it will fill a vital link.

    I have to agree with most posters in this thread about QF. In my view their poor customer service harks all the way back to their TAA roots. For those who mainly fly domestic trunk routes and especially on the east coast, Virgin Blue now provides a choice and in my view, a much better one at that.
  18. QF WP


    Jun 20, 2002
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    Yes, that was my exact point

    Similarly, I have been a Plat since 2002, was Gold previous to that as well as being Gold in the old program. I joined QFF in Feb 87, so similarly qualified after much flying to question the comment by Chucksta.

    Admittedly, I haven't flown SIN/CDG however I have flown SQ a couple of times intra-Asia and had good service both in Y and J.
  19. garyjohn951

    garyjohn951 Active Member

    Jul 21, 2006
    As a WP, bought 2 el=cheapo tickets Mel - Wellington, enjoyed 3 course meal in 1st class lounge, didn't want meal on plane, enjoyed a couple of Barcadi and cokes instead.
    Top service QF.
  20. QF WP


    Jun 20, 2002
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    Whilst they're not Intl flights, I've got a KIPOX fare BNE/SYD/PER/ADL/SYD/BNE trip starting this Sunday, so I'll be checking out their service and QP's carefully.

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