When Qantas international Business Class doesn't make the grade

[mannej]

There is no airlines flying lie flat seats between Australia and Hawaii so Qantas is quite competitive in this regard.

They have the most pitch of the airlines flying direct in J

 

[Aussie_flyer]

They have the most pitch of the airlines flying direct in J

There you go, best seat in the sky between Australia and Honolulu

I suspect if HA offered something much better the 767 replacement would have come sooner.

 

[mannej]

HA offer a recliner (with AVOD) that has 45 inches of pitch

 

[sergeyvzn]

Air Fiji (ex Air Pacific) will be the way to go almost lie flat (loped lie flat beds) when their new A330 have been all delivered. Their J class looks quite good, certainly better that the recliner Qantas, Jetstar and Hawaiian use on the direct route, IMHO well worth a stopover in Nadi

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Air Fiji (ex Air Pacific) will be the way to go almost lie flat (loped lie flat beds) when their new A330 have been all delivered. Their J class looks quite good, certainly better that the recliner Qantas, Jetstar and Hawaiian use on the direct route, IMHO well worth a stopover in Nadi

adding a stopover adds many hours to a trip so for most they won't be interested and the ability to have a proper sleep is removed by the stopover as well.

 

[lovethattravel]

The problem is not so much about how Qantas compares with other airlines, but whether it should be marketing seats as J class when the standard of the facilities is so far below what one expects from international Business Class. If the standard is that of Premium Economy, why not market it as such? Then there would be no disappointment.

 

[mannej]

That has been the crux of the argument with the 767's.
QF do state it on their website as to what you won't get on them (I.e no skybeds).
The problem is there is no defined business class standard is there? There are a number of airlines who still use recliners on their international routes (CX, EK etc). It certainly is not a premium economy product (QF domestic J yes, the dreamtime seats no).

It's an interesting one isn't it...

 

[boomy]

The problem is not so much about how Qantas compares with other airlines, but whether it should be marketing seats as J class when the standard of the facilities is so far below what one expects from international Business Class. If the standard is that of Premium Economy, why not market it as such? Then there would be no disappointment.

I never heard of any full service airline that has only Y & PE but I think it's more of a question of value for money then the type of class.

When I booked my flight with QF to HNL I compared the cost of J to what I will actually get for my $$ and decided to go for exit row in Y instead. It wasn't as bad as I thought it will be, no screaming kids as you often get on these type of routes, and even managed to get a few hours of decent sleep (with the penalty of sore neck when waking up )

 

[vitagen]

Air NZ and VA have only Y send Y+ on their TT routes

 

[ftm]

Many of the European airlines (eg AF, SK) do only Y and Y+ and their Y+ is really Y with food. So everything is relative.

That Y with food on AF is also far more expensive than QF TT J. So while it isn't a full flat Skybed with a choice of Champagne, its better than much of the rest of the world!

 

[Aussie_flyer]

The problem is not so much about how Qantas compares with other airlines, but whether it should be marketing seats as J class when the standard of the facilities is so far below what one expects from international Business Class. If the standard is that of Premium Economy, why not market it as such? Then there would be no disappointment.

Well Hawaiian markets theirs as FIRST CLASS. It is not a premium economy standard being offered by Qantas anyway. The soft product is the same as international business its just that the seat is different and it's better than what Hawaiian offers in First class.

Air NZ and VA have only Y send Y+ on their TT routes

Actually Air NZ don't sell premium economy on trans tasman. On widebody services its business and economy. You can elect to add features to your economy product such as meals, movies and baggage and even a spare seat beside you. They do NOT market their premium economy product on trans tasman even if the aircraft flying the route is fitted with those seats (i.e widebodies).

 

[eric2011]

Air NZ and VA have only Y send Y+ on their TT routes

Air NZ offer a J class on their 777's ( flight 135,136 ) ex BNE



Oops didn't see that Aussie_flyer had already answered

 

[markis10]

Actually Air NZ don't sell premium economy on trans tasman. On widebody services its business and economy. You can elect to add features to your economy product such as meals, movies and baggage and even a spare seat beside you. They do NOT market their premium economy product on trans tasman even if the aircraft flying the route is fitted with those seats (i.e widebodies).

Air NZ DO sell PE ex PER TT, which if cause is where the OP originates.

Outbound - Perth to Auckland
Wednesday 19 June 2013
Flight Info Departs Arrives Duration Service class

Perth to Auckland NZ0176 BOEING 777-200 operated by Air New Zealand
7:25 pm
Wed 19 Jun
5:45 am
Thu 20 Jun
6h 20m
Premium Economy(O)
2Inbound - Auckland to Perth
Saturday 22 June 2013
Flight Info Departs Arrives Duration Service class

Auckland to Perth NZ0175 BOEING 777-200 operated by Air New Zealand
2:35 pm
Sat 22 Jun
6:10 pm
Sat 22 Jun
7h 35m
Premium Economy(A)

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Air NZ DO sell PE ex PER TT, which if cause is where the OP originates.

Well I forgot about that but they also sell business on that route.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

most airlines offer a mix of business class accommodation. but I think it is almost unheard of for a top ties airline to offer a mere reclining seat on a long haul flight.

i think it's fine to have a mix as long as the ordinary passenger is aware of that. Europeans know domestic (intra-euopre) business class is standard economy with a free seat, Americans know domestic first class is 2+2 with 38 inch pitch. if you are flying in Asia you know intra-Asian business class is different from the long haul offering. (there are some airlines where is is very confusing to know what you're going to get... EK and Japanese airlines have such a diverse mix of seating it makes it hard to know... but at least ANA for example clearly states it on the booking page with a link to seating on your flight)

anomalies should be pointed out. passengers shouldn't have to research the ultra small fine print to find out if their plane is going to be configured for regional operations on a long haul flight. there could easily be a note by QF3/4 on the booking page with 'no skybed' or 'regional recliner seat'.

i wonder why, during the refurbishment, QF didn't remove one row of economy, extend the pitch in business class, and at least offer completely horizontal leg-rests. they could have done this for just 2 aircraft for the HNL route and then maintained some sort of similarity with its other long haul offerings. a completely horizontal leg-rest makes a big difference in the ability to sleep. (I would argue they should have done that with their regular domestic 767s anyway... and increased pitch there as well).

 

[Katie]

To the OP, at least they had rolled out the iPads!! We upgraded on points on QF3 last year, and the in-seat IFE had been removed from J, and the iPads had not yet been rolled out. Thank goodness our first flights to HNL in 2009 saw us buying Little Miss a personal DVD player! Mr Katie and I had plenty of reading material on our tablets.
It depends on personal situation of course, but I'd think QF4 would probably be slightly more comfortable, as it's a daytime flight. Both times we've taken QF3 to HNL (once in Y, once in J), we've napped as soon as we could check in to our rooms after lunch time.

I agree it's a disappointing experience with the hard product given the length of the flight. I'm almost tempted to fly via LAX next time we go.

 

[trooper]

In all of these stories (and many of the responses) there is an underlying - perhaps subconscious -belief evident that "Business Class" actually has a single, universally accepted definition. Therein lies the problem.

(Can't see it being solved anytime soon... not while even some of the most established airlines don't offer the best available on long haul - look at LH for one..not even proper flat beds in Biz on the 380! Amazing)

Personally I try very hard to fly only on routes offering what I like (full flat bed if overnight, good AVOD, good lounge where possible too). That does NOT mean I object to other "Business Class" products being so defined, but that I will do the research to see what is available....

Of course I spend time on AFF and FT so I'm probably not an "average traveller" .. but to suggest that "Europeans" know that they will get Coach with a blocked middle, and that "Americans" know what domestic "First" is all about is no more realistic than expecting folks buying "Business Class" on Airline X to check what the actual product is.

I'm sure many Europeans and Americans have felt gypped paying for those products!