When is fraud, not fraud? [Car rental charges after return]

[nutwood]

Interested in opinions on this topic. Bit of a rant so please ignore if rants offend.
The scenario is a simple car hire in a NSW regional area. As is common, there's a 200 km/day limit. Google places the job at 186 km from the nearest airport. No problem. Two day return trip, sums add up. Just to be sure, noted odometer readings start and finish.
Reality; after hire discovery of $85 charge for 340 extra km's. Investigation reveals a simple error in that the original odometer reading should have been 17837, not 17537. The return mileage should have been 18226, not 18277.
Obviously, once noticed, objections were raised. Time went on, objections repeated. Finally, no explanations or apologies offered, $'s refunded.
I seem to be getting a lot of this these days so am beginning to wonder . If I exploited my access to customers credit cards to charge for fictional services (ie 340 km's of excess mileage), I'd be committing fraud. How is that larger companies appear to be able to hide behind "error" and simply refund the $'s taken? Noting that the refund only happens when the customer complains.

 

[auriga]

I agree. Very dishonest.

 

[Happy Dude]

Right after checking the exterior, the odometer is the second second thing I look at, to ensure that it matches the hire details handed to me. It's usually different but not by the amount in your case. I then check the fuel and take photos of everything.

I also confirm with the staff while picking up the keys the number of kms I'm entitled to and usually get them to highlight it on the hire details. On one occasion, the "code" used at the end of the hire was different to that used in the booking by the Corporate TA, meaning the invoice at the end was based on a different rate and km allowance. Hertz Queanbeyan flat out refused to honour the TA booking claiming they weren't entitled to any rate with unlimited kms.

It's hard to come to any conclusion other than they're 'trying it on' in the hope that it'll go unnoticed.

 

[love_the_life]

I wonder just how many of these things 'get through' because people had not double checked like you had and were in a position to raise an objection.

 

[Happy Dude]

I wonder just how many of these things 'get through' because people had not double checked like you had and were in a position to raise an objection.

Stacks I reckon. I learnt the hard way. I now get a receipt when dropping off and if it's not close to the quoted price, I go straight to the desk to find out why.

 

[drron]

Take a photo of the odometer at start and end of hire.
When overcharged send copy of photos to hire place and consumer affairs.

 

[TomVexille]

Credit card chargeback is your answer

 

[nutwood]

Credit card chargeback is your answer

There are plenty of answers to the problem and in all honesty I can't complain. Every time I've been ripped off by an "error", the situation has been sorted. Mind you, the best I've got is the situation rectified. In other words, over charges refunded, transaction end result exactly as per original contract.
Sorry your honour. Yes I admit to robbing that bank but once I got caught, I gave all the money back. I even said sorry...

 

[serfty]

Charge back should be a last resort.

These things are always best resolved with the merchant; generally they will refund without fuss. Once or twice I have had to use a statuary declaration or go via corporate but patience is the key.

 

[JohnK]

It can happen and does happen often. The odometer readings on paperwork can be out as not recorded accurately from previous rental.

I take a photo of the odometer at time of rental and time of return. Only recently I returned the car on time to BNE international at 7:00pm but was charged an additional day as the car was noted as returned at 10:00pm. Probably when the employee went out with the keys.

Took some emails to convince them and they wanted to see proof I returned on time and fuel receipt not proof enough. Luckily I used airtrain to get back to Brisbance city and had Go card transaction history.

Also paid for child seat included in rental but when I hired car they added child seat then removed child seat and increased rental by about $13 which I did not see at time of hire. Made sure they refunded this amount too.

I hate dealing with companies to fix their mistakes.

 

[nutwood]

It can happen and does happen often. The odometer readings on paperwork can be out as not recorded accurately from previous rental.

I take a photo of the odometer at time of rental and time of return. Only recently I returned the car on time to BNE international at 7:00pm but was charged an additional day as the car was noted as returned at 10:00pm. Probably when the employee went out with the keys.

Took some emails to convince them and they wanted to see proof I returned on time and fuel receipt not proof enough. Luckily I used airtrain to get back to Brisbance city and had Go card transaction history.

Also paid for child seat included in rental but when I hired car they added child seat then removed child seat and increased rental by about $13 which I did not see at time of hire. Made sure they refunded this amount too.

I hate dealing with companies to fix their mistakes.

The interesting thing is that you have to go to the trouble to prove that they are wrong, then they re-pay you money that they should not have taken in the first place and everyone is OK with this. I'm thinking it would be nice if there were some consumer legislation so that in the instance where you have documented proof of an over-charge, such as your example, there's a penalty involved. Perhaps they have to re-pay twice what they took? I wonder how many mistakes would be made then?
I do note that out of all the errors I've experienced over the years, I can't recall one where the error was in my favour. If it was a case of simple errors, logic would say that there'd be a reasonable number of instances where I rented a car for four days and paid for three or the hotel didn't charge me because they thought I'd booked and paid through Qantas, rather than charging me twice. Perhaps a free breakfast instead of being charged for two?

 

[juddles]

.....It's hard to come to any conclusion other than they're 'trying it on' in the hope that it'll go unnoticed.....

I disagree. I think that when you are talking the major rental companies, these errors occur due to mistakes or slackness on the part of some employee, not because of any company intent or desire to rip you off. I don't think the average employee in any of these companies would give two hoots if a rental incurred an excess mileage charge or not.

Overseas and small rental companies are a completely different kettle of fish.

 

[trooper]

Id be a little less miffed in that case ...17837 instead of 17537? Transposing a 5 and an 8 has to be one of the easiest actual/honest mistakes to be made...

 

[juddles]

......I do note that out of all the errors I've experienced over the years, I can't recall one where the error was in my favour. If it was a case of simple errors, logic would say that there'd be a reasonable number of instances where I rented a car for four days and paid for three or the hotel didn't charge me because they thought I'd booked and paid through Qantas, rather than charging me twice. Perhaps a free breakfast instead of being charged for two?

I agree that errors against the person are more common than against the company (talking rental cars here), I suspect that is due to the nature of the transactions. Basically the set fee is exactly that, and it is add-ons like extra time or mileage that cause overcharging. There simply is no mechanism for you to be given money if you return cars early, nor if you do less than X kilometres. Hence errors in your favour are prevented by nature of the business.

I have had a couple of errors in my favour with car rentals - always involving a one-way fee not being added. This is one of the very few errors that can occur in one's favour.

 

[JohnK]

.... and everyone is OK with this.

I'm with you. I regard it as stealing but what is there to do and gain by following up? It will continue to happen and they will continue to get away with it by saying it was an "error".

 

[docjames]

I think their systems, staff "care factor" and quasi-automation (rubbish in = rubbish out) means these errors just continue to occur.

Add me to the list of "very carful with damage reports, photos, mileage" etc on pickup and return.

 

[Happy Dude]

I disagree. I think that when you are talking the major rental companies, these errors occur due to mistakes or slackness on the part of some employee, not because of any company intent or desire to rip you off. I don't think the average employee in any of these companies would give two hoots if a rental incurred an excess mileage charge or not.

Overseas and small rental companies are a completely different kettle of fish.

Disagree all you like but judging by this thread and zillion other examples, you'd be in the minority. Most rental places are franchises and there is a clear incentive to try it on with virtually no downside.

The mentality is not limited to car rental cars. Wherever there's access to someone else's money, some will see an opportunity. Heck even our politicians do it.

 

[nutwood]

I'm with you. I regard it as stealing but what is there to do and gain by following up? It will continue to happen and they will continue to get away with it by saying it was an "error".

Absolutely nothing to gain. This thread is very much a grumble with no expectation of a solution. It's the way of the world and ever since everything became computerised, any large company appears to be able to excuse pretty much anything as an error. I think the logic is that where there's a computer error, there's no intent to defraud, whereas a small business who are loading up their invoices manually are intentionally sinning. I do question though, why all the errors seem to be one side. It suggests a basic philosophy of "when in doubt, charge extra and if it's wrong, they'll complain".

 

[JohnK]

Disagree all you like but judging by this thread and zillion other examples, you'd be in the minority. Most rental places are franchises and there is a clear incentive to try it on with virtually no downside.

Franchise. That's a key point.

I struggle to understand why an individual employee will want to cheat another individual for the benefit of a company but if it's a franchise this would mean they would benefit directly.

 

[oz_mark]

Franchise. That's a key point.

I struggle to understand why an individual employee will want to cheat another individual for the benefit of a company but if it's a franchise this would mean they would benefit directly.

Not really - I find it happens with any business that keeps your credit card, and is especially rife in rental cars (such as this case) and hotels (here, here's a charge for that beer you didn't have from the minibar)

Vigilance is key.