What on earth is QF doing?

[Seat0B]

Mr Seat 0A and I have tickets to Japan for 22 Feb 2024. This trip has already been a debacle, aside from my current health situation which makes it a bit iffy. We were originally booked CBR-BNE-HND-MEL-CBR as a paid J fare booked during the last DSC offer in March 2023. A few weeks after that, QF:

• changed the connecting flight from CBR to BNE to only allow a very short transit from BNE domestic to international - can't recall exact details now, but it was about 5-15 minutes so clearly not going to work
• changed the arrival port into Japan from HND to NRT, which also did not work for our connecting Nagano Snow Shuttle to the ski fields.

So I called three times until I got HBA, and they quickly re-issued the ticket below CBR-SYD-NRT-SYD-CBR. I was really happy because I prefer to exit via Sydney rather than Brisbane anyway. I was also happy with the longish connect in SYD on this new arrangement because those of you who read my TR for #Japanuary 2023 know that for various reasons last time we all but had no time to enjoy the F Lounge and one of our group almost missed the QF25. I was not too worried that the connecting legs were both downgrade to Y either, as I will just claim ORC for the original ticket which is supposed to be a very easy process (ha ha she says bitterly, still waiting as of today for the same problem to be fixed for the flights similarly changed in January 2023). So far so good, right.



But then we have received a series of rolling "changes to your flight" We have had 2 changes to our connection from SYD-CBR on our return in February 2024, but those are OK. The problem I have is with the changes to the connection to SYD on departure day. First change was to a flight that leaves at 1710. OK lose an hour, maybe that's OK.



Second change was to a flight that leaves at 1740. Now we are back to being squeezed for time for the connection (assuming the usual woeful experience between CBR and SYD) , tax refund and F Lounge time and I am not very happy about it.



So far we have not accepted any of the changes as we were hedging our bets a bit to maybe use this change as an excuse for a full refund if my health does not permit the trip to Japan in January (it's probably going to be regarded as a pre-existing condition for TI as I was technically waiting for a specialists opinion for well over 6 months that led to the leukaemia diagnosis and that makes it pre-existing). QF keep sending increasinly aggressive emails wanting us to accept the change, but so far we have not.

So today, I checked the QF web site to see what happened to the original flight that I want, QF 1442. And to my surprise (not) nothing has happened to this flight - it is still being sold right now.



So why have we been moved off this flight? We are paying customers (probably paying over the odds too, but I wanted the DSC to maintain my WP), not on award flights. It's not about the lack of business seats - all the others we have been offered are also Y seats only. Is QF 1442 a qhost flight? Are we being screwed around - "bundle of rights" style? And when I feel up to tackling the call I know I need to make to get it sorted, what line do you suggest I take to get back onto the flight we originally booked that we want to fly on that is still being offered for sale.

Edit:Typos

 

[RooFlyer]

God knows - but we've seen this many times before. Expert Flyer shows that plenty of seats available.



Call until you get Hobart and just say you want that flight back. Can you use a day in Sydney? Ask for one much earlier?

QF 1446 no longer showing on EF on the 22nd. Here is the entire EF return for that route, QF on the 22nd.

 

[madrooster]

So why have we been moved off this flight?

QF1442 looks like it was cancelled and later reinstated. With 8 weeks to go to your flight, looking at the loads on both QF1442 and QF1506 I'm suspecting they might consolidate the two flights as the loads currently don't really support both flights operating.

If you are not sure if you will be going, then you would probably want to wait until a week or two before travel to sort out the schedule change so that you can cancel free of charge as close as possible to travel.

 

[RichardMEL]

SO you're on the QF1506 - a two class service. If it's to be accepted, I'd push for J (for the SC's if nothing else). 3 hours is a really decent transit time in SYD tbh. I understand if you want to do TRS and have a longer time to enjoy dinner n the lounge, but it's not a really tight connection imo.

Of course, you can always show up at CBR much earlier - we know how those 717 services can be affected, so it's potentially possible to get on one of the earlier dash8's I'm certain.

 

[ronlon]

SO you're on the QF1506 - a two class service. If it's to be accepted, I'd push for J (for the SC's if nothing else). 3 hours is a really decent transit time in SYD tbh. I understand if you want to do TRS and have a longer time to enjoy dinner n the lounge, but it's not a really tight connection imo.

Of course, you can always show up at CBR much earlier - we know how those 717 services can be affected, so it's potentially possible to get on one of the earlier dash8's I'm certain.

I tend to agree that the Sydney connection time is OK so you will have to weigh up how important is the reduced lounge time for you

 

[Seat0B]

Yes thanks to those suggesting the 3 hr connection is Ok. On paper that’s the case. We did the same trip last year and it was not really sufficient. Our departure from CBR was delayed. We were placed into holding and further delayed arriving into SYD. Then there was a delay on the transit bus. Slow security and immigration. Plus a long line at Tax Refund and we ended up with around 30 minutes only in lounge. That’s why I booked the flight that would accommodate all that stuffing around which is par for the course these days and still allow a relaxed and pleasant departure rather than a high speed stressful one. Of course if QF did not stuff pax around, I wouldn’t be concerned about a 3 hr transit, which was always plenty in the before times.

 

[RichardMEL]

You know of course this means that with all the precautions (VERY understandable!) you will wind up being bored senseless at SYD for 3+ hours because there were no delays, ATC holds, bus came fine, no queues at security or TRS and the normally slow SYD F lounge service was express path!

yeah OK, I'll just add in Unicorns and Rainbows shall I?

 

[Himeno]

You know of course this means that with all the precautions (VERY understandable!) you will wind up being bored senseless at SYD for 3+ hours because there were no delays, ATC holds, bus came fine, no queues at security or TRS and the normally slow SYD F lounge service was express path!

yeah OK, I'll just add in Unicorns and Rainbows shall I?

I'd rather spend 3 hours sitting in the SYD F lounge then 2 hours sitting in the CBR J lounge wondering when the delayed flight is going to board and hoping the SYD transfer isn't going to delay it even more.

A number of years ago, I was sitting in the CBR lounge watching delays mount in SYD (SYD was on 1 runway that evening). QF staff were brushing off any delay concerns with "we'll get you on what ever flight departs next" until I pointed out that I had an international connection. That was their "oh cough" moment and I soon had staff in both lounges trying to work out what to do. After seeing that their first choice wasn't available (QF paid hotel in SYD, then JL the next morning), they decided to send me via MEL, but their first option was to move me from a W opup to J on QF21 to a JQ A320 MEL-DRW-MNL-NRT, then finally offered CX in W after I rejected JQ. (CX then upgraded me to J as soon as I walked into the MEL CX lounge)

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

If all else fails...
As you have both got high QFF status, maybe try to get to CBR airport as early in the day as possible to take any empty seats on any earlier flights.
Do OLCI at the least 24 hrs prior.
Dont do a separate booking, as it would be a no show on that first linked flight in the int boking.
As for why QF some inane things, who knows!

 

[Vic]

Dont do a separate booking, as it would be a no show on that first linked flight in the int boking.

OP has already CLEARLY told us they do not have separate bookings

 

[Seat0B]

You know of course this means that with all the precautions (VERY understandable!) you will wind up being bored senseless at SYD for 3+ hours because there were no delays, ATC holds, bus came fine, no queues at security or TRS and the normally slow SYD F lounge service was express path!

yeah OK, I'll just add in Unicorns and Rainbows shall I?

I’m sure that’s exactly what will happen! Unless I end up like last time, stressed and sweaty and choosing between a meal or a shower and I. The end doing both - badly. And our friend who was on a different connecting flight had the same experience - but QF 25 waited for her and 10 others - and then got a weather delay and nearly missed curfew. I swear push back was at 2259

 

[RichardMEL]

I’m sure that’s exactly what will happen! Unless I end up like last time, stressed and sweaty and choosing between a meal or a shower and I. The end doing both - badly. And our friend who was on a different connecting flight had the same experience - but QF 25 waited for her and 10 others - and then got a weather delay and nearly missed curfew. I swear push back was at 2259

oh I hear you. who wants the stress huh? As I wrote - fully understandable wanting to go earlier "just in case" - there are worse places to have extra time for sure so I was mostly being tongue in cheek.

I'm reminded of a recent flight I took MEL-SYD, which was a 4pm scheduled into 5:30pm. The gent next to me in J was connecting to the 8:30pm(iirc) QF103 to HNL and I remarked he had plenty of time to transfer and enjoy the lounge. He specifically said "Well the travel agent wanted to fly me on the later flight, but I know Sydney so I booked this one instead just in case!" and we both had that wry understanding chuckle.

SO it's not just you We know how it goes!

 

[encryptededdy]

In my experience staff at domestic airports have always been happy to allow me to fly ahead on a earlier domestic connection (if I arrive early at the domestic airport) if connecting to an international flight.

 

[elanshin]

I’m sure that’s exactly what will happen! Unless I end up like last time, stressed and sweaty and choosing between a meal or a shower and I. The end doing both - badly. And our friend who was on a different connecting flight had the same experience - but QF 25 waited for her and 10 others - and then got a weather delay and nearly missed curfew. I swear push back was at 2259

As I have learnt, SYD curfew is not actually a hard curfew. I have had pushback and rolling at 23:20 on the 22:00 SYD > MEL as they waited for a late Int'l arrival. I guess whatever penalty and requirements was cheaper than putting 30+pax up for a night at SYD.

 

[Himeno]

As I have learnt, SYD curfew is not actually a hard curfew. I have had pushback and rolling at 23:20 on the 22:00 SYD > MEL as they waited for a late Int'l arrival. I guess whatever penalty and requirements was cheaper than putting 30+pax up for a night at SYD.

Isn't the curfew based on getting pushback clearance before 11pm? The actual pushback doesn't have to happen by then?

 

[madrooster]

I have had pushback and rolling at 23:20 on the 22:00 SYD > MEL as they waited for a late Int'l arrival. I guess whatever penalty and requirements was cheaper than putting 30+pax up for a night at SYD.

The 10pm SYD-MEL is also a mail run so it's somewhat a must-go where possible.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If I was you I wouldn't sweat it, the trip is a couple months out and likely QF will make more changes too. What you get rebooked into now likely won't be the final itinerary. And I say this as someone who has had their fair share of schedule changes and IRROPs.

What you need to start thinking about is what do you want to get out of this? Every time an airline has made a schedule change on me or I encountered an IRROP from them, I made them pay for it. For instance, I've had Air Canada make a 4 hour connection at YVR turn into a 90 minute connection, which with a phone call allowed me to force them to push me into J on a later flight. More recently QF changed the departure time by 10 minutes, and I called in to force them to turn my ADL > SYD into a connecting flight (ADL > CBR > SYD) so that I could earn the 10 extra status credits to earn loyalty bonus this year.

If I was you, I would be looking right now at what's the best itinerary you can put together with Qantas on the dates you want to travel. Qantas should have no problems moving you over to other flights to make that happen, especially if you are travelling on a paid ticket, you hold status with them and they were the ones causing the disruption. I'd probably aim for minimizing the number of connections here (i.e. just 1), ensuring the departure/arrival airport remains HND as before, and ensuring there is plenty of connection time at SYD. How much of a buffer you should build in is really a value judgement. Certainly if I wanted to maximize my use of the Flounge, I would be leaving for SYD in the morning. This also has the added benefit of meaning you'll have backup QF flights to SYD on the ready should that particular flight go sideways.

SO you're on the QF1506 - a two class service. If it's to be accepted, I'd push for J (for the SC's if nothing else).

Schedule changes can only have a positive impact on the status credit accruals. By that I mean Qantas must provide the greater of either the status credits they would have earned had they flown the segments originally booked (called Original Routing Credits - ORC) or the status credits they would have earned from the flights they actually took. Sometimes you may need to call/write in to get the correct status credits credited to your account.

I tend to agree that the Sydney connection time is OK so you will have to weigh up how important is the reduced lounge time for you

The big uncertainty with Sydney is of course the time taken to go from domestic to international. Yes there is a bus you can take airside to shuttle you between the domestic and international terminal, but guess what? You have to clear emmigration and security which can take sometime.

As you have both got high QFF status, maybe try to get to CBR airport as early in the day as possible to take any empty seats on any earlier flights.
Do OLCI at the least 24 hrs prior.

Don't even bother. When you are at the point where you are in the process of travelling, chances are those planes will already be full. Might as well get switched onto the flights you really want to take now since Qantas can provide those changes free of charge. After all, they were the ones who started this whole mess.

Dont do a separate booking, as it would be a no show on that first linked flight in the int boking.

No need for a separate booking, since Qantas is obligated to get them from the origin to the destination in the bundle of rights they agreed to. Again, it should be no hassle whatsoever to get changed onto any Qantas flight they wish.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Seat0B]

As I have learnt, SYD curfew is not actually a hard curfew. I have had pushback and rolling at 23:20 on the 22:00 SYD > MEL as they waited for a late Int'l arrival. I guess whatever penalty and requirements was cheaper than putting 30+pax up for a night at SYD.

Isn't the curfew based on getting pushback clearance before 11pm? The actual pushback doesn't have to happen by then?

I just checked my diary and push back was indeed just moments before 2300 hrs. Take off was at 2320 hrs. Of course, I don’t know exactly when push back clearance was granted. So we did just meet the rules by whatever the standard is - either actual pushback or pushback clearance - but only just!

 

[XWu]

Isn't the curfew based on getting pushback clearance before 11pm? The actual pushback doesn't have to happen by then?

You are right:

Curfew at Sydney Airport

Summary of Key Features The Curfew Sydney Airport has a curfew in place that applies to aircraft operations between 11.00 pm and 6.00 am (local time).

www.infrastructure.gov.au

Exceptions:

• Any aircraft that received taxi clearance from Air Traffic Control (ATC) before the curfew period starts.

Also for those wondering about international flights via SYD

International passenger aircraft movements​

• Subject to approval, certain international passenger aircraft are permitted to operate during the curfew shoulder period.
• The 'curfew shoulder period' means the periods between 11:00 pm–12:00 am and 5:00 am–6:00 am each day.
• The Sydney Airport Curfew Regulations 1995 prescribe the maximum number of landings and take-offs by international passenger aircraft during the curfew shoulder period:
  • 24 landings per week between 5:00 am–6:00 am (with no more than 5 landings occurring per day); and
  • 0 take-offs per week between 11:00 pm–12:00 am.

 

[jb747]

Taxi clearance is not the same as push back clearance.

As for "what QF is doing"... I'm sure they don't know. Dearest leader took the covid opportunity to get rid of anyone who knew.