What irritates you most while flying?

[NM]

I hate it when people recline their seats when there is not enough room to do so. I agree with danielh that it is the airline's fault more than the passenger doing the reclining, but whoever's to blame, it wrecks a flight, particularly if you are trying to work.

I disagree. Poor seat pitch is not the airline's fault. It is the fault of paying passengers who are not willing to pay high enough fares for the airlines to be able to operate economically with fewer seats installed in the aircraft. As we all like to find the cheapest airfares, we are the ones forcing the airlines to install more seats into the aircraft.

If we were all willing to pay business class airfares, I am certain the airlines would be willing to operate with less seats on board and hence more pitch between the seats.

At least we do have a choice on many flights. We can chose to pay the business or first class fare and have a seat where a reclining passenger is not going to cause use any discomfort. This is not always available as some routes and some airlines are now all-economy. This is because people demand to pay cheaper airfares, so we can't have our cake and eat it too!

But I stand by my original comment that seats should not be reclined during meal service. After the meal service, if the person behind really needs to work they can either carry a small hand-held computer or take their laptop along with their business class airfare.

 

[serfty]

But I stand by my original comment that seats should not be reclined during meal service.

Absolutely true, I hate it! If having to eat while being forced to recline back because the seat in front is back you are more than likely to get one ot two drops of Chicken Balti juice or something similar on your chest/lap/front.

After the meal service, if the person behind really needs to work they can either carry a small hand-held computer or take their laptop along with their business class airfare.

Nah, in this case It's OK to recline your seat back so the laptop fits 8) . (unless the PAX behind hasn't finished their meal :? )

 

[dajop]

IAt least we do have a choice on many flights. We can chose to pay the business or first class fare and have a seat where a reclining passenger is not going to cause use any discomfort. This is not always available as some routes and some airlines are now all-economy. This is because people demand to pay cheaper airfares, so we can't have our cake and eat it too!

But I stand by my original comment that seats should not be reclined during meal service. After the meal service, if the person behind really needs to work they can either carry a small hand-held computer or take their laptop along with their business class airfare.

What makes your right to recline more important than the right of someone to work on a laptop? If you want to recline unfettered by a passenger sitting behind you, why don't you pay for a business class fare?

I don't want to pay for an extra 50cm of legroom, extra cushioning in the seats, a foot rest or extra "elbow space"by only having for eg, 4 seats instead of 6 on a 737. Nor do I want to pay for the level of attention, the better(?) meal, the preflight OJ, the free alcohol etc. All I would like is an extra 5 cm or so I can actually sit there and type comfortably.

I am sure there would be some out there (me included) who could justify to their employer (or to themselves) paying a flat $30-$50 fee to have those extra few cm (premium Y seems to be becoming more popular these days -even DJ has the blue zone), but cannot justify the $100's for J class.

Having said all that.... on QF I never find this a prob on 767's, but is to a certain extent on A330's, and is diabolical on 737's. Of course never a problem on the Dash 8 - no recline!

 

[icarus]

Incidentally, I regularly fly business class, and on several occasions Qantas has crammed those seats together so there is no more space than in a normal economy class seat - and the problem of other people reclining is just as bad. So it's not about not being prepared to pay for a decent pitch; it's about Qantas purporting to offer a pitch it doesn't deliver.

Haven't had the problem on the few Virgin economy flights I've taken. Their seat pitch seems to be pretty standard from flight to flight.

 

[thadocta]

What makes your right to recline more important than the right of someone to work on a laptop? If you want to recline unfettered by a passenger sitting behind you, why don't you pay for a business class fare?

I don't want to pay for an extra 50cm of legroom, extra cushioning in the seats, a foot rest or extra "elbow space"by only having for eg, 4 seats instead of 6 on a 737. Nor do I want to pay for the level of attention, the better(?) meal, the preflight OJ, the free alcohol etc. All I would like is an extra 5 cm or so I can actually sit there and type comfortably.

How about that YOUR space includes the area up to - but no further - than the seat in front of you at full recline, which thy will graciously allow you to use during meal times?

I agree with NM, the seats are made to recline, if you choose to use the full extent of that recline during "lights out" then good luck to you, if the passenger beind you doesn't like it then that is THEIR problem, not yours.

Dave

 

[dajop]

I agree with NM, the seats are made to recline, if you choose to use the full extent of that recline during "lights out" then good luck to you

Overnight flights are different, but what about not during "lights out", like on a midday flight from somewhere on the golden triangle(SYD/MEL/BNE)?

What I am hearing is that I too should become a selfish b###d with no consideration for the people around me. At the moment, if I do want to recline, I will always have a quick look behind first, and maybe only go halfway back if the person is working, or eating their meal. Maybe I should become like some of the fellow pax who just put their seat on full recline without even looking back straight after take off regardless of what the person behind them is doing, take up all the overhead locker space, etc etc (thankfully though most pax are not like this though and do have consideration for others.).

 

[BlacKnox]

sometimes arriving... After a lovely meal, an entertaining movie, a stimulating conversation with an attractive FA, a cheeky wine(s) and a relaxing nap, the last thing I want is to get off the plane. :wink:

 

[NM]

What makes your right to recline more important than the right of someone to work on a laptop?

Because I have paid for a fare that includes a seat type that reclines. Laptops are getting bigger as well as smaller. May times I have seen peolpe try to open and work on a laptop with huge screens. Some are now almost the eqiv of a 17 inch monitor! My laptop has a 15" equiv screen and is pretty much a standard size. If I was to use it on a QF domestic flight, I would sit it on my lap and not the tray table as a matter or couresy to the person in front, permitting them to use the recline function of the seat for which they have paid the fare.

Better still, I use a small hand-held computer such as the Dell Axim X50v I have just purchased for this very purpose.

If you want to recline unfettered by a passenger sitting behind you, why don't you pay for a business class fare?

For international flights I generally do this. In fact, I pay the difference between my employer paid economy fare and the best business class fare I can get, which is usually DCIR26 or DONE4 for USA and Europe trips. For domestic flights, I don't bother. For Asia trips I will sit in Y for daytime flights (generally northbound), and pay for J or upgrade with points for overnight flights (generally southbound). I am happy to sit in an economy seat for short flights (up to 8 hours for daytime flights, 3 hours for night flights), but will expect to be able to use the recline function on that seat except during meal service times. And I also expect the person in front to be able to experience unrestricted recline at all times except during meal service.

Having said all that.... on QF I never find this a prob on 767's, but is to a certain extent on A330's, and is diabolical on 737's. Of course never a problem on the Dash 8 - no recline!

Thankfully QF only use the 737's on short routes, with the longest being the skip over the Tasman or east coast to Perth. For those short trips I can cope with 31 inch pitch, no personal IFE and a passenger in front reclining. Lets hope Boeing never decide to make a 737-800LR version for BNE-HKG routes!

I have told my employer that they are going to pay for Y fares then don't expect me to work. If they want me to work during teh flight, then pay for J. They choose to pay for Y so my laptop remains in the overhead locker.

 

[NM]

At the moment, if I do want to recline, I will always have a quick look behind first, and maybe only go halfway back if the person is working, or eating their meal. Maybe I should become like some of the fellow pax who just put their seat on full recline without even looking back straight after take off regardless of what the person behind them is doing, take up all the overhead locker space, etc etc (thankfully though most pax are not like this though and do have consideration for others.).

I will never recline, even half way, until the meal service has been cleared from the seat behind. And if you read my previous posts, you will note I don't suggest just blindly throwing the seat back. If I am not reclined and the person behind wants to use that space, fair enough. But when I am ready to recline, I will slowly and gently ease the seat back, allowing plenty of time for the person behind to adjust their current arrangement.

 

[Platy]

Annoyances and reclining!

Personally, I think you are entitled to put your seat back - it's what you've paid for - the person behind can do the same. meal times would be the exception - arguing that the airline is catering for demand by having small seat pitch to justify low costs fares is only partially valid when Qantas makes an obscenely large profit at our expense (poor service)!!!.

Business class seat room with reclined seats on some aircraft is hardly better than economy - business class in the Airbus A330 is a great disappointment on this score.

I always travel on the domestic legs of International flights business class for extra room and comfort (SYD-CNS, SYD-MEL, CNS-BNE, SYD-MEL-SYD, etc)- a Skybed MEL-SYD for the same price as a coughty old seat on a domestic 767!!!

If business class was priced sensibly more people could take advantage of the extra seat pitch and so eat their meals comfortably and get the laptops fired up! In the Uk you can buy BA flights online at greatly reduced prices over the full fare by purchasing a restricted business class ticket. Often QF business seats go unused so the pricing is WRONG on some routes - why not sell off the seats at lower prices with restrictions or put the price down to stimulate demand - business class fares have risen nearly 20% in 2 years.

The smartest choice is Virgin Blue zone - front or exit row with oodles of room for just $30 more. Compare Sydney Cairns discount economy for $100 plus $30 Blue Zone to Qantas business for $1,080 one way - a 90% cheaper option with plenty of room!!! It did take me a long time to let go of 16 years of absolute loyalty to Qantas and realise I was far better off travelling Virgin when convenient. It seems there are a lot of fiercely loyal Qantas people on this site (stop whingeing and support the competition!)

Some common annoyances:

- seating preferences being ignored (happens often despite being Platinum)
- not being able to upgrade when business is full of staff (including SUBLOAD - happens often despite being Platinum)
- cabin service not given in full (eg ice creams, etc forgotten)
- first class lounge staff forgetting to announce flights so you are last on the plane encountering glares from other passengers when it's not your fault!
- Qantas refund time up to 6 weeks
- QF frequent flyer scheme atrophication

usually other passengers don't annoy me - the most annoying thing I ever saw, however, was a gentleman on a Japan-Cairns-Sydney flight use the airline pillow as a hankerchief!!! Yuck!

 

[markis10]

I hate the lack of decent food in QC the last few years, and the fact that cleaning the lounge seems to be something that gets done during non peak hours if you are lucky. If you start work as a staff memeber for the QC I reckon you should be shipped to hong kong and given a week in the CX "Wing", what an example.

 

[swissbignose]

Re: Annoyances and reclining!

Some common annoyances:

[...]

- first class lounge staff forgetting to announce flights so you are last on the plane encountering glares from other passengers when it's not your fault!

I don't know whether I totally agree with your opinion here. As adults we are responsible for our own management. Flights tend to operate on a schedule. These are generally well-publicised. Even in the event that the flight is delayed, airlines don't generally indicate that "the flight is delayed, and it should take off sometime in the next two hours, but we won't tell you when".

It isn't rocket science to keep an eye on the monitors.

 

[dasher]

Reclining! (note re the "angels")

The two minute angels I think are called the "three minute angels" and they give you a five minute massage. Go figure.

Sitting behind someone and they just jam back their seat back into you, on Qantas domestic 737 with a laptop, that can mean being squashed into your seat!

 

[Platy]

Re: Annoyances and reclining!

I appreciate your point, but please consider that a major benefit of being a Club Lounge member, particularly for international flights which have 100s passengers per flight and take time to load, is being advised to proceed to the gate at the latter part in the boarding cycle - the airline shouldn't expect people from its first class lounge to waste time hanging around waiting to board at the gate!

It is part of the duty of the lounge staff to advise lounge attendees of a suitable time to proceed to the gate.

As club members we are advised that the flight will be called for us, so no it's not our responsibility, the lounge staff have taken that responsibility on!

This information is not available on the screens without arriving too early (when boarding starts to flash) or too late (when final call starts to flash).

It is part of the standards of SERVICE which we should all be fighting to expect and maintain.

Do you really expect to hang around for 45 minutes waiting to board a plane to London when you've paid $14,000 return for first class and you can't be sure whether someone has done their job properly?!

 

[siobhan steven]

What irritates me most

People who fart!! The charcoal filters can only handle so much! Coming back from LAX with the kids recently ( who don't play with their tables, jump on the seats, argue etc.. in fact I've been asked if I medicate them for flights!) there was someone with a digestion problem I'm sure. its not like you can open the window. And no it wasn't the kids, it came from a differant direction, well, it was SO bad it was almost visable!
Agree about tables, but people who get up and down and pull on the back of your seat, usually getting a hunk of hair drive me NUTS. Had a go at a woman once after it happened numerous times, and the way she responded, ie no apology etc, prompted me to comment that I don't think she got let out very often. Why don't more people actually pipe up and say something to rude people or am I on a one woman crusade!

 

[straitman]

Personally, I think you are entitled to put your seat back - it's what you've paid for - the person behind can do the same. meal times would be the exception

I'm glad I don't have to sit behind you :evil: All that is required is a small amount of consideration :!:

arguing that the airline is catering for demand by having small seat pitch to justify low costs fares is only partially valid when Qantas makes an obscenely large profit at our expense (poor service)!!!.

Obscenely large profit :!: Who are you trying to kid :?: Percentage return on an airline business is about as bad as it gets. :roll: I personally can't see why anyone would bother :?:

Often QF business seats go unused so the pricing is WRONG on some routes - why not sell off the seats at lower prices with restrictions or put the price down to stimulate demand

It's called Yield Management :!: Airlines spend a considerable amount of time working the numbers and explore all the possible combinations. Sell more "business" seats (and it is a business) at a lower profit may well reduce the overall yield. :wink: The only way to make this work is have some competition from an equivilant type of airline. ie someone who offers business class seating and service.

The smartest choice is Virgin Blue zone - front or exit row with oodles of room for just $30 more. Compare Sydney Cairns discount economy for $100 plus $30 Blue Zone to Qantas business for $1,080 one way - a 90% cheaper option with plenty of room!!!

Or try QF dicount economy at (with exit rows) at $129 plus taxes (=$164). Incidently the best VB fare I could find was $139 plus taves (=$179)

It did take me a long time to let go of 16 years of absolute loyalty to Qantas and realise I was far better off travelling Virgin when convenient. It seems there are a lot of fiercely loyal Qantas people on this site (stop whingeing and support the competition!)

Just trying to balance the argument a little. I'll travel VB, put up with the plastic smiles and pay for my coffee etc if its cost effective or convenient. Most times it's not though.

 

[straitman]

I'm glad we're not getting off topic here :!: :shock:

 

[straitman]

Some common annoyances:

- seating preferences being ignored (happens often despite being Platinum)
- not being able to upgrade when business is full of staff (including SUBLOAD - happens often despite being Platinum)
- cabin service not given in full (eg ice creams, etc forgotten)
- first class lounge staff forgetting to announce flights so you are last on the plane encountering glares from other passengers when it's not your fault!
- Qantas refund time up to 6 weeks
- QF frequent flyer scheme atrophication

1. Don't seem to have the problem. I'm Gold and always get 1st or 2nd row and most times an exit when I ask for it.
2. Depends why the staff are there. If they are positioning so your next flight isn't late I disagree. if they are on their own time I agree completely.
3. Just ask. It works for me :!:
4. I've never had the problem. I keep an eye on whats happening, leave when called and always arrive and board amongst the last 20% or so.
5. It's not just Qantas. Try any airline and I agree entirely.
6. Agree totally. However they are the only ones with a program if you fly domestically within Oz. The new program from VB will be interesting to view.

8)

 

[Warks]

I'm glad we're not getting off topic here :!: :shock:

No it's good to see everyone is thoroughly irritated!

I did start this thread to see if others had felt this way when flying so I'm glad I'm not alone. I'd like to think that perhaps the airlines take a look at this site for feedback occasionally and hopefully constructive suggestions here may be acted on at some stage.

The big thing that the airlines can obviously do just about nothing about is consideration for other passengers. That's up to us! Although I did see a video on a domestic flight in Japan some years ago which had characters from Astro Boy (not the boy himself) acting like complete prix and I'm sure the message at the end said something like "Consider others". All this in Japan where people are about as polite as you can get. How about that Aussie airlines? It would have to be done in a light-hearted way and people would get a laugh but would they take any notice??

 

[NM]

- Qantas refund time up to 6 weeks

5. It's not just Qantas. Try any airline and I agree entirely.

As much as this is an annoyance, there is a very valid reason for it. If airlines refunded unused or cancelled tickets quickly, people would regularly be booking fligthts they have no intention of taking for a number of reasons, including:

• gaining access to lounges for which they only have access rights when flying. They would purchase a redundable ticket, checkin, enter lounge then cancel the ticket
• reserve seats on multiple flights when only intending to occupy one. Perhaps in the hope of being able to upgrade and then cancel the ones that don't succeed in the upgrade process
• to reserve multiple seats on the same flight, pre-allocating adjacent seats and then cancelling one at the last minute leaving them with an empty seat next to them

All of these things really screw up the airline's ability to manage yield. They need to discourage false or ghost ticket purchases in order to stop this practice.

The downside is for those of us with a genuine need to cancel and refund a ticket, we must wait until after the credit card bill is due before they action the refind.

The 6 week wait has nothing to do with paperwork or administration delays. Such refunds could be actioned overnight. BUT they purposely delay the processing by 6 weeks to discourage the actions I have exampled above.