What does Singapore Airlines know that QF doesn't?

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drsmithy

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I've flown QF Y+ a couple of times on the clients' dime (only seats available) and in all honesty, it wasn't a particularly awe-inspiring experience; so much so that I certainly wouldn't bother forking out the extra $$$ for Y+. Business I can certainly see the value, but Y+ over Y no? IMHO not worth it - YMMV.

Personally I'm the complete opposite. If I'm paying, Y+ over Y is fairly easy to justify, but J over Y (or even over Y+) is nearly impossible. Happy to sacrifice points to upgrade from Y+ to J, but not pay another 2x as much on top of the 2x already for the Y+ ticket over Y. That kind of money can easily represent another couple of weeks accommodation on holiday.

Every flight I've ever been on with Y+, it's been wall to wall, and I've also missed out on points upgrade requests to Y+ several times (presumably due to it being full of revenue passengers).

IMHO the only good value J flying is a (not-ex-Australia) DONEx.
 
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wandering_fred

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Over on the flight assistance thread, someone just asked about flight availability mid-week (a couple of weeks out) on CX PER-HKG-PER. If CX is having second thoughts about the W cabin, it is not because it is not selling. The cabin was filled both directions. Y and J on the other hand...

Australia to SE Asia on overnight flights has a sweet price spot (especially if not purchased in Australia or HKG) in the W cabin when J is the alternative.

Happy wandering

Fred
 

soorox

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Remember that SQ is only offering Y+ on 2 of its 4 daily services to SYD. MEL isn't even slated to receive Y+ yet, and theres no chance the rest of Australia will either as the rest use regionally configured aircraft. These 2 flights are SQ's more popular services exSYD and command a lot of transiting pax onto other Long haul routes, this allows SQ to offer a consistent product throughout the journey.

I'm hoping at least one of MEL's 2 77W flights receive Y+ though, SQ217/218 would be ideal for a red eye service. I wonder if SQ might offer it on selected A380 flights in September and October.
 

dajop

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Personally I'm the complete opposite. If I'm paying, Y+ over Y is fairly easy to justify, but J over Y (or even over Y+) is nearly impossible. Happy to sacrifice points to upgrade from Y+ to J, but not pay another 2x as much on top of the 2x already for the Y+ ticket over Y. That kind of money can easily represent another couple of weeks accommodation on holiday..

Oh I'm the opposite again. If I feel like splurging I'll take a second tier J or combo of short-ish Y + longer J over Y+ any and every time. It does depend on the price differential, and whether a sale is on or not I guess. But I noticed QF are offering Y+ from Australia to LHR in May for, oh, a cool $6.3K return!! With that sort of money I'd want to be (and sure I could be) travelling in J .. or I'd pay another $1.5K for J. Even if paying $4k, I'd try to find something for anything up to $1k more in J, or just be happy with a $1.7K Y fare.

But, I acknowledge that here on AFF, that many of us either know, or know how to find out about, ways of getting J are Y+ fare levels or lower. I am sure the average member of the public wouldn't.
 

Nizar

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Oh I'm the opposite again. If I feel like splurging I'll take a second tier J or combo of short-ish Y + longer J over Y+ any and every time. It does depend on the price differential, and whether a sale is on or not I guess. But I noticed QF are offering Y+ from Australia to LHR in May for, oh, a cool $6.3K return!! With that sort of money I'd want to be (and sure I could be) travelling in J .. or I'd pay another $1.5K for J. Even if paying $4k, I'd try to find something for anything up to $1k more in J, or just be happy with a $1.7K Y fare.

But, I acknowledge that here on AFF, that many of us either know, or know how to find out about, ways of getting J are Y+ fare levels or lower. I am sure the average member of the public wouldn't.

When QR offer sales I've seen them with return J fares to Europe for $5.9-6.5k. That's about $1.5-2k less than other fully flat bedded, one stop, top tier options (EK/EY/SQ/QF*).

*I don't personally consider QF a top tier (ie.top 5) airline but I think many on here would.
 

drsmithy

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Oh I'm the opposite again. If I feel like splurging I'll take a second tier J or combo of short-ish Y + longer J over Y+ any and every time. It does depend on the price differential, and whether a sale is on or not I guess.

Whenever I go looking, if an economy fare for the destination is X, then PE will be ~2X and J will be ~4x. I've found this to be pretty consistent for many years now.

I'm a pretty big boy (188cm/95-100kg), so the difference for me between Y and Y+ is not having to sit at an angle for the whole flight so my shoulders and arms don't intrude into the seat beside, not having my knees pressed up against the seat in front and being able to open up my laptop enough to watch a movie without having my chin on my chest. Oh, and in-seat power (less of an issue these days as laptop and tablet battery lives push 6-8 hours each even when watching video). So it's a significant improvement - the difference between a day of back and leg pain, or not, post-travel.

All J really offers over and above that as far as I'm concerned is a bit more shoulder room and the ability to lie flat (ish, depending on airline). For an additional cost usually measured in $thousands.

Obviously different people will measure the value differently. :)
 

woodborer

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So Qantas have had PE in its Long Haul fleet for some time (747 and A380). Singapore Airlines is just installing it. Neither have it in their regional A330 fleets. I know bagging Qantas is a sport around here, but shouldn't the actual question be, Why has it taken Singapore Airlines so long?
 

wandering_fred

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So Qantas have had PE in its Long Haul fleet for some time (747 and A380). Singapore Airlines is just installing it. Neither have it in their regional A330 fleets. I know bagging Qantas is a sport around here, but shouldn't the actual question be, Why has it taken Singapore Airlines so long?

They finally decided they needed something to offer a competitive alternative to the ME3 airlines?
BA and CX started to visibly take more of their long haul customers?
They knew that QF had nothing to compete with that class on the SIN-SYD route?
They wanted to reduce the number of people upgrading directly from economy to business cabins?
The number of days that the economy cabin was more than 97% full meant they could make money with premium Y without reducing the number of Y passengers.

Dream up a few more if you have the time

Happy wandering

Fred
 
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They finally decided they needed something to offer a competitive alternative to the ME3 airlines?
BA and CX started to visibly take more of their long haul customers?
They knew that QF had nothing to compete with that class on the SIN-SYD route?
They wanted to reduce the number of people upgrading directly from economy to business cabins?
The number of days that the economy cabin was more than 97% full meant they could make money with premium Y without reducing the number of Y passengers.

Dream up a few more if you have the time

Happy wandering

Fred

their Asian customers are getting wider waistlines?
 

OATEK

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Whenever I go looking, if an economy fare for the destination is X, then PE will be ~2X and J will be ~4x. I've found this to be pretty consistent for many years now.

I'm a pretty big boy (188cm/95-100kg), so the difference for me between Y and Y+ is not having to sit at an angle for the whole flight so my shoulders and arms don't intrude into the seat beside, not having my knees pressed up against the seat in front and being able to open up my laptop enough to watch a movie without having my chin on my chest. Oh, and in-seat power (less of an issue these days as laptop and tablet battery lives push 6-8 hours each even when watching video). So it's a significant improvement - the difference between a day of back and leg pain, or not, post-travel.

All J really offers over and above that as far as I'm concerned is a bit more shoulder room and the ability to lie flat (ish, depending on airline). For an additional cost usually measured in $thousands.

Obviously different people will measure the value differently. :)

I am 183cm/100kg, and for many years coped with Y. But the arthritis has set in and other age related physical defects have come to the fore, so Y+ is a minimum for me. And SWMBO who is only about 170CM but has had major knee surgery also cannot take Y any longer. Many other friends have also made the same decision regarding Y, and whether we go Y+ or J is budget and distance driven. Given that the price of a QF Y+ ticket via the desert will just about buy you J on say AY via HKG or SIN, the choice sharpens.

I agree generally with the proposition that QF would find it difficult to make a go of Y+ on the A330s, given the reduction in J with the new config, and the lack of onward options now that they go via the desert. But I think it does mean that QF will lose those pax that prize Y+ and given that many of these are the older generations with a few bob and the time to spend on travel, it must add up over time.
 
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