What does Singapore Airlines know that QF doesn't?

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dajop

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What SQ knows is that SIN is their hub, and to sell PE at the premium it sells at on long haul operations, they need to actually serve long haul using PE on both sectors, including SIN-SYD, just like CX and HKG. It's a side benefit they can also sell it to people travelling just between SIN & SYD. What QF knows is that SIN is end of line destination, so they can't sell long haul routing via SIN, and probably will get a smaller premium for PE on those sectors. Maybe economics will change one day, but look at BA, they often sell PE between SIN & SYD at small premiums (25-40%) over Y, yet on QF between SYD & LHR PE is often 2-2.5xY.
 

Jock28

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What SQ knows is that SIN is their hub, and to sell PE at the premium it sells at on long haul operations, they need to actually serve long haul using PE on both sectors, including SIN-SYD, just like CX and HKG. It's a side benefit they can also sell it to people travelling just between SIN & SYD. What QF knows is that SIN is end of line destination, so they can't sell long haul routing via SIN, and probably will get a smaller premium for PE on those sectors. Maybe economics will change one day, but look at BA, they often sell PE between SIN & SYD at small premiums (25-40%) over Y, yet on QF between SYD & LHR PE is often 2-2.5xY.

Except CX is actively removing Y+ from aircraft..... Cathay Pacific to axe premium economy routes - Business Traveller
 

Jock28

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CX's pricing was an issue, and the Y+ service was reduced early this year. Markets such as Australia and the UK understand Y+, others do not.

QF Y+ is a solid product. It's a much larger seat, more legroom and essentially J- in soft product. The problem is that Y+ varies around the World from UA's which is simply more legroom to entirely different products.

It should be noted that SQ is cutting F in half on the 777 fleet to introduce Y+, so it's also a balancing act between F and Y+. Good luck for anyone trying to find award space on those aircraft in F. I dare say they will now be revenue pax and SQ availability has already changed to only select 'Waitlist' for these flights/
 

JohnK

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Not comparing apples with apples.

Qantas has premium economy in their A380s and 747s. I am not convinced it makes sense to install premium economy in their A330s. Don't know much about 787s yet but I don't think they'd install premium economy there either.

If premium economy was the answer then more airlines would install it including regional routes but that's not happening.
 

Jock28

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Every time I have flown J to and from Asia on a QF A330 the cabin is full.
 

Himeno

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I wish QF would put Y+ on the 330s. Just 12-14 seats. 2 rows... :(
 

drron

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When I saw the title of the thread I was expecting a discussion of the differences between the airlines.The answer I thought was obvious-SQ know how to run an airline.:D:p;)
But all I get is a discussion of Y+.:shock:
 

Chrisgreen1

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Ex Perth on CX you pay approx double for Premium Economy, I managed an upgrade last year Perth - Hong Kong for $200 as part of the upgrade bid trial. I recently flew Premium Economy Auckland - Perth on Air NZ dream liner where I paid for the fare outright. I got the ticket during a sale for approx $150 more than 'the works' economy fare. in the future I would not be able to justify the cost to pay for CX PE however with NZ competitive pricing I would definitely consider flying their product again. also I found NZ to have a superior product to CX.


Interesting to note the CX PE cabin was almost empty and the NZ PE cabin was 100% capacity.
 
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wandering_fred

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RE: pricing

Even with the fall of the AU$, ticket prices exAustralia are still overpriced with respect to most other locations (home locations normally being an exception). So CX overpricing the Y+ cabin is not surprising.

In another thread (FT CX) we've had a price level discussion. LAX-HKG-PER CX round trip April weekday
S class 1520 - Essentially no miles for anyone
V class 2032 - Miles for MPC - 50% for QF - nothing for AA
E class 2680 - miles for everyone at 110% in PEY
exPER cost (in US$) came in at about 3150.

So compared to the no frills fares it is a 75% upcost. But compared to a basic FF earning fare then about 30% upcost. Australia a 20% location penalty (at least).

Consider that for all its basic amenities, PEY is a premium cabin and will earn a (small) bonus in frequent flyer programs ( and likely "usable" with partners). When you attempt to compare it to Y fare classes that earn essentially nothing, I call an unfair comparison. Those fare classes need to be matched up against Scoot, Jetstar and the like.

And I'll agree in the regional environments, PEY/Y+ etc really are only worth a serious premium on the overnight flights. But you can't just install the seats one way. So two rows of 7 on an A330 is my "fair call". CX will end up with three rows. Except in middle east/south asia where the customers are either happy with Y or have the $$ to fly J.

Happy wandering

Fred



Happy wandering

Fred
 

JohnK

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I wish QF would put Y+ on the 330s. Just 12-14 seats. 2 rows... :(
Where would you get the space?

Economy? It wouldn't be from business as that is always full in my experience. Essentially you will lose at least 3 rows of economy or 24 seats and on some routes all they will be doing is selling cheap economy with op-ups to premium economy.

I haven't seen the new config but with premium economy you will need an extra galley or at least move front galley to centre between business and premium economy. You will still need front entrance so more than likely another row of economy gone.

I just can't see how Qantas can get premium economy to work on A330s.
 

mannej

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But not from their HKG-Aus flights, only from regional intra-Asia and ME flights.

But they have indeed reduced the number of Y+ seats on some of the HKG-AU flights.
 

Archphoto

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But not from their HKG-Aus flights, only from regional intra-Asia and ME flights.

Is it perhaps due to the shorter flights intra-Asia obviously service? e.g.: BKK-SIN is akin to ADL-SYD and having a PE class on that route seems more like "overkill" for the extra cost passengers would be expected to pay.

I've flown QF Y+ a couple of times on the clients' dime (only seats available) and in all honesty, it wasn't a particularly awe-inspiring experience; so much so that I certainly wouldn't bother forking out the extra $$$ for Y+. Business I can certainly see the value, but Y+ over Y no? IMHO not worth it - YMMV.
 

Jock28

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If all these theories about Y+ not working intra Asia, it does not explain why CX and EK and others can justify F cabins for short sector flights in the region.
 

dajop

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If all these theories about Y+ not working intra Asia, it does not explain why CX and EK and others can justify F cabins for short sector flights in the region.

By-product of aircraft utilisation.

SQ and QF has de-F'd a lot of flights. SQ in particular eliminated from many short hauls within Asia. CX offers very little F between Australia & HKG. Furthermore, in the 77W refit to add PE to 77W, SQ are eliminating 4 F seats (8->4) and adding 6 seats in the J cabin.

And lastly, like PE, F on regional flights is part of long-haul connections (eg CX selling F from US to Asia).
 

moa999

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Its also aircraft size.
SQ with 777s and A380s versus QF with A330s.

Am still hopeful we will see a QF 789 with W
 
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