What are the specific rules regarding passports?

[vetrade]

First up, obviously you need a passport for international travel, but what specifically are the rules governing when and how you have to supply your passport info to airlines you are flying with?
For the sake of this discussion let’s ignore people who either don’t have a passport, have a soon-to-expire passport or who don’t have a passport at the time of booking flights because these are peripheral to what I’m talking about.

The question arose because while booking multiple flights recently with multiple airlines it was obvious that they all don’t have standardised procedures for collecting passport info from pax. So, do airlines just set their own rules (within the obvious legal requirements), as seems to be the case from my own experiences, and what are the pitfalls people have come across? Have you been blind-sided by an airline having vague or inconsistent passport procedures?

To illustrate:
Recently booked various VA, SAA, BA and SQ flights. This will be the first time in quite a few years where we haven't departed Aus on QF where it’s always been easy to add our passport info to our bookings online. Why is this "set & forget" routine not available on some other airlines? BA was no problem - booked flights through them online and was prompted to add passport details at the time of booking. SQ was a similar story - easy to link passport number online too - although not prompted to at the time of booking.

But SAA is a different story – couldn’t find any way to add passport details for revenue bookings made direct with the airline. Similar situation with SAA reward flights booked with VFF points (in conjunction with VA dom. flights) – no way to add details either via VA MMB or on SAA website using the SA PNRs. Having not flown VA internationally I don’t have firsthand experience of how they manage passport info for their own flights but this SAA experience gives rise to doubt.

So, what’s optional and what’s specifically required? Is it universally acceptable to just present your passport at the airport at check-in and not link any info to your bookings beforehand? Do some airlines require you to call through the info (at VA when I tried to amend our details the link just says to contact guest services)? Have you had probs because an airline had poor passport procedures?

 

[MikeG]

Firstly let me point out I'm no expert with Passports globally, but I have had some exposure to how passport information is funneled from airlines to border protection agencies (such as DIBP here in Australia or the DHS in the USA).

Its no secret that pax details supplied during bookings are fed to border clearance agencies for potential flagging, investigation, and deny-boarding flags back to the airlines in the port of departure. As such airlines tend to have the same requirements for passport information, but although the majority use fairly homogeneous passport procedures, some airlines use "other" processes.

This may explain the anomaly in procedures you're experiencing, and as such, I'd just recommend "going along for the ride" - there will probably be a mad scramble to collect passport data at check-in, and I guess this is just an airline that doesn't play by the unregulated rules for international cross-border travel.

I did a quick google, and noticed that SAA do fly to the USA. *shakes head* I don't want to know SAA's relationship with Dept Homeland Security over there, as this lack of "warning" would be a real risk to border protection.

I could say more than that, but my tongue is somewhat held by a confidentiality agreement with DIBP. All of what I've said here can be found in the Interwebs (if you know where to look)

M

 

[opusman]

I thought I read somewhere that DHS requires APA at least 12 hours ahead of arrival, which is why Australian airlines can still collect the info on check-in at the airport rather than enforcing it in advance.

 

[MikeG]

I would think some countries require a longer notice of passenger lists than that...

Sorry for being vague - it is intentional.

 

[RooFlyer]

I've flown quite a few o/s airlines internationally not to/from Australia and for the smaller airlines, say with short/medium international hops, I didn't even think to try to enter passport details on line etc. eg Lao Air, Vietnam Airlines, Baltic Air, Pegasus, Air Burkina, Royal Air Maroc. Just present passport on check-in and they check for any required visas.

Obviously USA is way out there for pre-flight info and the Canadians are following.

So in general I wouldn't sweat it if the airline doesn't specifically ask for passport info or direct you to their web site, except if the flight is going to or via Nth America.

 

[bismarck]

There's a fair bit of information available publicly on this

e.g. https://www.border.gov.au/EnteringorleavingAustralia/Documents/APP_Guide_part1.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/travel-industry-personnel/apis2

The responsibility rests entirely with the airline to validate the information required by the accepting country or they'll be fined.

The US requires that complete APIS data be sent 30 minutes prior to doors close. Some carriers choose to collect information earlier and "batch process" it to CBP to try and avoid hassles at check-in where a country may deny boarding (e.g. due to invalid visa). Carriers are encouraged to send data 72 hoursprior to the flight when available. If a traveler provides complete APIS data at72-hours prior to the flight, the carrier can submit complete APIS data at thattime. If the traveler provides limited data such as a name and date of birth only,the carrier can still send that data at 72-hours and receive an indicative screening response.Complete APIS data must still be provided, for a batch submission, “No LaterThan” 30 minutes prior to securing of the aircraft doors.

 

[MikeG]

The important thing for people flying into Australia based in another country, soon things will be changing in this space here. DIBP have not made it a secret that they are improving things...

https://www.tenders.gov.au/?event=public.atm.showClosed&ATMUUID=6D473BF9-FC24-439C-5B6685A3518E1AF0

 

[dajop]

Everything can't be finalised 72 hrs before a flight. There can be new bookings and people who move flights right up to flight closing for Checkin, so the 30min sounds like a reasonable figure - although anecdotally it would seem that those moving flights or booking last minute can get singled out for special attention when certain counties are involved. As an example I was able to go onto CX website and get through to payment screen for a HKG-SFO flight leaving in just 1:45.

 

[pagingjoan]

The important thing for people flying into Australia based in another country, soon things will be changing in this space here. DIBP have not made it a secret that they are improving things...

https://www.tenders.gov.au/?event=public.atm.showClosed&ATMUUID=6D473BF9-FC24-439C-5B6685A3518E1AF0

Love the "Conditions for Participation"!

 

[RooFlyer]

Love the "Conditions for Participation"!

Particularly this one:

Conditions for Participation:The Tenderer and its proposed Subcontractors are not listed as terrorists under section 15 of the Charter of the United Nations Act 1945 (Cth).

Whew!

 

[pagingjoan]

Particularly this one:

Whew!

That's the one I was referring to!

 

[Himeno]

2 years ago when I was in the process of renewing my passport while also booking a RTW ticket, CX had issues holding the QR sectors because QR refused to hold the seats and accept the booking until full passport details were entered and APIS provided - this was not an issue for any other airline involved in the ticket (BA, QF, JL, AA, AY, CX, IB, MH).

There has also been times where I've entered APIS data and it has not transferred to the operating carrier and it had to be entered again at check in.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So, what’s optional and what’s specifically required? Is it universally acceptable to just present your passport at the airport at check-in and not link any info to your bookings beforehand? Do some airlines require you to call through the info (at VA when I tried to amend our details the link just says to contact guest services)? Have you had probs because an airline had poor passport procedures?

My default position is to not provide passport information until requested by the airline. This might be during the booking process, on-line check-in, or at the airport itself. If the airline dun need it at time of booking there's no reason to go out of your way to provide it.

In any event, entering a passport during the booking process can be irrelevant, you can use a different passport if you choose at check-in.

 

[wandering_fred]

I would think that the USA and Australia, both requiring electronic "visas/ESTA" or native passports, would have a bit of "slack" in the reporting.
OTOH the airlines would need (and likely have) a way to confirm that the "electronic document" exists if the native passport is not sighted.

It will be interesting to see when QR asks for my details as I have my first flights booked with them for March.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[Lemon_Party]

That's the one I was referring to!

OT but in similar vein one of the questions in the permanent residency application asks are you, or have you ever been, part of a known terrorist organisation.

I wonder how many people applying for visas through the years get caught out by that...

 

[harvyk]

Given the vagueness of the question, the answer can only be - depends on the country you are departing from, the country you are flying to, any countries which you might transit through, any countries which you might overfly, and the country the airline is registered to as to what rules need to be applied. Certain countries are known for being far more formal in their passport requirements, other countries have a "please close the gate behind you" approach to their immigration.

 

[vetrade]

Given the vagueness of the question, the answer can only be - depends on the country you are departing from, the country you are flying to, any countries which you might transit through, any countries which you might overfly, and the country the airline is registered to as to what rules need to be applied. Certain countries are known for being far more formal in their passport requirements, other countries have a "please close the gate behind you" approach to their immigration.

Deliberately skirted around the legalities & country issues, harvyk, because the factors such as those you mentioned would open up a minefield of nuances for individual countries which I guessed could bog down the discussion. I was probing for variations between airlines and what screw-ups those variations had caused for people. Applying the KISS system seemed appropriate because when you get down to basics everyone needs a valid passport +/- visa irrespective of which country they are visiting.

 

[harvyk]

Applying the KISS system seemed appropriate because when you get down to basics everyone needs a valid passport +/- visa irrespective of which country they are visiting.

Not true at all, certain countries will permit passportless / visaless travel to certain citizens of certain countries. At one stage they were talking about making trans-tasman travel to be passportless. A lot of EU travel / EU citizens can travel between countries without passports.

 

[juddles]

,,,,,
The responsibility rests entirely with the airline to validate the information required by the accepting country or they'll be fined.,,,,,.

This is the real truth behind all this

 

[YSSY]

Many times when I've been travelling last minute, my passport details have only been captured at the gate. I have flown many times to the US from Europe on last minute bookings where the passport data has only been captured an hour before boarding, in fact on one occasion during a misconnect I was rerouted and the passport data will have only been entered for that booking moments before boarding.
I wouldn't worry too much, as long as for countries like the US you have an ESTA or visa. Europe and the UK seem to be a lot more lax when it comes to checking passport data.