Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[Lynda2475]

They will most certainly be flying domestically out of there.

Of course, expect all the budget airlines to favour WSI and I'm sure there will be government incentives.

Full service otoh will hopefully stay at SYD.

 

[SYD]

Probably paywalled, but first test flights out of WSI start today.

First plane to touch down at Sydney’s new international airport

It will be a historic moment for the first major airport to be built in Australia since Melbourne’s Tullamarine more than 50 years ago.

www.smh.com.au

I’m still surprised that’ll be 2 more years of testing and certification before commercial PAX operations commence.

I suspect the all digital ATC “tower” (first of its kind in Oz) might be the long pole in the tent there?

 

[jase05]

Of course, expect all the budget airlines to favour WSI and I'm sure there will be government incentives.

Full service otoh will hopefully stay at SYD.

You do know that they can operate out of both.
QF will be flying domestically out of there from day 1 too.
There are several International airlines that have signalled their intent to fly out of WSI already with more to come.
No reason why both airports can’t co-exist and people have the option of using whichever one suits your schedule or needs. You won’t be forced to use one or the other

 

[Lynda2475]

You do know that they can operate out of both.

That may be the case for routes with high daily frequency. But niche routes where airlines only run 1 flight a day (or fewer than 7 flights a week) certainly wont be operating out of both.

Doubt you are going to see premium routes with F flying from WSI.

QF will be flying domestically out of there from day 1 too.

For freight and I imagine a few token routes for the leisure traveler like OOL (in school holidays) and maybe 1 in 4 (more likely 6 or 8 less) of the SYD-MEL.

As someone who flew between 6am and 7am from SYD to MEL regularly for work day trips and the planes were chockers; people wont want to be leaving home at 3am to travel 90min to 2 hours to get WSI when they can get to SYD in 10-30 mins.

There are several International airlines that have signalled their intent to fly out of WSI already with more to come.

Ensuring they wont get any business from me. Again I imagine will be discount non-business traveler heavy i.e. Bali routes.

No reason why both airports can’t co-exist and people have the option of using whichever one suits your schedule or needs. You won’t be forced to use one or the other

They will coexist, but I still predict WSI will be a Avalon type dud and will cost us tax payers a bomb to have to incentivize get people out there given how far it is from Sydney.

 

[justinbrett]

Agree it commits to nothing (what announcement does these days ) but its still interesting that western Sydney was mentioned; why? Looks to me like some carrot may be offered to the government to approve the investment. Climate action!

Can't see any QR services moving to WSI either, but what about the new VA services from Sydney to DOH? Would the slots be available for those additional flights from SYD? Again, some grease for the approval processes - look, we are going to use the shiny new airport, jobs, blah blah. That way also, the new VA service wouldn't compete head-to-head with QR's service from Sydney.

EDIT: I guess there may be a gap between WSI availability and the Sydney services, if the touted commencement sticks. But the intention will be there

VA already has lots of slots. It could easily poach one from domestic to use for DOH.

As for the western Sydney thing (note it doesn’t actually mention airport), this is likely to offset the main criticism of the announcement that the VA flights will be entirely crewed with offshore jobs. So of course they’ll be clutching for any prospect of creating secondary jobs.

It’s just typical corporate speak, and yes QF does the same. Par for the course.

 

[jase05]

That may be the case for routes with high daily frequency. But niche routes where airlines only run 1 flight a day (or fewer than 7 flights a week) certainly wont be operating out of both.

Doubt you are going to see premium routes with F flying from WSI.


For freight and I imagine a few token routes for the leisure traveler like OOL (in school holidays) and maybe 1 in 4 (more likely 6 or 8 less) of the SYD-MEL.

As someone who flew between 6am and 7am from SYD to MEL regularly for work day trips and the planes were chockers; people wont want to be leaving home at 3am to travel 90min to 2 hours to get WSI when they can get to SYD in 10-30 mins.


Ensuring they wont get any business from me. Again I imagine will be discount non-business traveler heavy i.e. Bali routes.


They will coexist, but I still predict WSI will be a Avalon type dud and will cost us tax payers a bomb to have to incentivize get people out there given how far it is from Sydney.

We will see. You are one person, there are millions that will use it and it won’t even be comparable to Avalon.
Like it or not it will be a success and no one is forcing you to use it but it gives the millions of others in Sydney another option plus giving options to others around Australia to avoid the debacle of SYD if WSI gets their act together

 

[RooFlyer]

As someone who flew between 6am and 7am from SYD to MEL regularly for work day trips and the planes were chockers; people wont want to be leaving home at 3am to travel 90min to 2 hours to get WSI when they can get to SYD in 10-30 mins.

You still don't seem to realise that there are a few million people 'out west' and who also fly. AND "they" currently have to shlep 90 mins or more to SYD to catch their 6am flights. Not the 10-30 mins enjoyed by those in the 'east'.

 

[Lynda2475]

Disagree millions of people who actually live in Sydney will continue to preface SYD, whilst T2 can be problematic during school holidays (although that due to the budget airlines operating there) but that is easily avoided by flying out of T3 and T1; where you just use priority queues.

 

[SYD]

We will see. You are one person,

Yes, @Lynda2475 has made their view quite clear on numerous occasions about never heading to WSI, and TBH, I’m in the same boat. I can see SYD in the distance from my top floor balcony. However….

there are millions that will use it

Yes, it’s intended to relieve the capacity constraints on SYD, and I’m sure it will do that. Removing the international freight will be a great opportunity to expand T1, followed by a gradual move of some international / domestic flights from SYD to WSI.

and it won’t even be comparable to Avalon.

Yep. That was a solution looking for a problem. Build it and they will come. They didn’t - unless you live in Geelong.

Like it or not it will be a success and no one is forcing you to use it but it gives the millions of others in Sydney another option

WSI airport claim a total “catchment” area of 8 mil. Although, to @Lynda2475 ’s point. The practicalities for the majority of greater Sydney (including the Central Coast and down to the ‘Gong) is going to be very difficult getting there for quite sometime. Those living along the new north/south metro to WSI will be fine.

plus giving options to others around Australia to avoid the debacle of SYD if WSI gets their act together

Curious what percentage of PAX actually transit Dom<->Int at SYD? For the majority that are starting/finishing their journey at SYD, it’s not so bad and should actually improve as some loads head west.

It’ll be quite a few years before there’ll be a lot of options and frequency at WSI for those looking for a seamless transfer experience Dom<->Int.

Alas, in the meantime, the QF proposal to consolidate SYD QFd and QFi ops to T2/3 had some merits for fixing the transit problems but hasn’t gone anywhere…

 

[Lynda2475]

WSI airport claim a total “catchment” area of 8 mil.

Which is just total BS as that is claiming 98% population of NSW. Everyone knows SYD is much more practical for anyone living in Northern Beaches, Northern Sydney, Eastern Suburbs, Inner South, Inner West, any of the Western Suburbs which are east of Paramatta (including Paramatta which is also closer to SYD than WSI), Central Coast, Newcastle etc.

The most densely populated parts of Sydney are all closer to SYD than WSI.

Residents per square kilometer:

Curious what percentage of PAX actually transit Dom<->Int at SYD? For the majority that are starting/finishing their journey at SYD, it’s not so bad and should actually improve as some loads head west.

Not that many as majority of SYDd users would be NSW locals or interstate residents where Sydney is their destination. Plus it is pretty simple to jump on the free orange bus (or QF bus if you are flying QFd&i) or pay for the train; plus with the new road now open Uber should be cheaper than the train.

SYD is not the only Aussie airport where you may need to take a bus/drive between D and I same is required at BNE (and PER depending on mix of airlines). And at least it has numerous PT options already in place.

 

[RooFlyer]

Not that many as majority of SYDd users would be NSW locals or interstate residents where Sydney is their destination.

Because the rest of us who need to fly to a large city to catch an international flight avoid the show at SYD if they can avoid it.

That said, on my recent Int-dom connections at SYD (eg from JNB) the transfer bus was full and a queue waiting.

I honestly don't understand all this overt antagonism to WSI. If its good for a particular pax (schedule, fare, convenience, airline) - they'll use it. If not, they won't. Those who intend to use SYD exclusively should also be thankful that at least some of the great unwashed Westies will be using WSI.

What on earth is the problem?

 

[elanshin]

Can we not start the whole "nobody will use it in 'Sydney'" debate again. We've practically already exhausted the topic.

It's an infrastructure project built for the future. Let it get operational before judging how it does or will do.

 

[SYD]

What on earth is the problem?

Nothing! It’ll be great for those that want to use it and can get to it.

 

[Lynda2475]

I honestly don't understand all this overt antagonism to WSI.

Well I honestly dont understand all the coughing about SYD. SYD is much better connected via PT than MEL and much closer to the city it services. SYD is also the best of the Aussie airports in terms of number of airlines and locations serviced.

SYD works for those who live in Sydney or want to visit Sydney (as opposed to some obscure creek hours away that no one had ever even heard of of until WSI was announced).

If there is a queue for the Qantas inter-terminal bus and you dont want to wait 15mins for the next one you can also use the free orange bus or jump in an uber or take the train. You do not have to wait in line given the many other options.

Those who intend to use SYD exclusively should also be thankful that at least some of the great unwashed Westies will be using WSI.

The only potential small blessing if all Bali flights move to WSI, although people I know plenty of people who could use WSI who will still use SYD due to wanting to use premium carriers and travel on premium routes.

What on earth is the problem?

That there were better options like lifting curfew at SYD; and far more pressing infrastructure projects like getting the new metro lines completed. Far more people move around Sydney each day than fly into/out of it; the subway/metros are some 50 years late and taking far too long to complete.

Funny most of those singing the praises of WSI are the ones who do not even live in Sydney; so wont be affected if any key routes move from SYD to WSI.

Anyone here who thinks WSI will be more popular or superior to SYD in their lifetime is deluding themselves.

 

[justinbrett]

I’m sure WSI will have international services, but it doesn’t make sense that you’d be connecting in WSI. How would WSI attract a route that BNE or MEL couldn’t?

There’ll be niche cases for budget airlines or airlines avoiding the curfew, but without a big regulatory stick (like LGA vs JFK) I can’t see routes being offered at WSI instead of SYD (however I can see them being offered at both)

 

[jase05]

Funny most of those singing the praises of WSI are the ones who do not even live in Sydney; so wont be affected if any key routes move from SYD to WSI.

I don’t think anyone is arguing about moving any key routes.
It’s more about airlines using both airports which in turn gives more options to everyone not just Sydney folk.
And yes I have a bit of a vested interest in seeing WSI not only survive but thrive as it affects my hip pocket

 

[elanshin]

I’m sure WSI will have international services, but it doesn’t make sense that you’d be connecting in WSI. How would WSI attract a route that BNE or MEL couldn’t?

There’ll be niche cases for budget airlines or airlines avoiding the curfew, but without a big regulatory stick (like LGA vs JFK) I can’t see routes being offered at WSI instead of SYD (however I can see them being offered at both)

Slot constraints at SYD for budget airlines. I can see Indigo once they launch long haul operations going to WSI over SYD given the population diaspora.

ZG might enter the market too and would make sense not to compete with their parent JL.

I'm sure they'll be more cases, but a more likely scenario is WSI offers budget airlines more slots so they increase their frequency and move all their ops over to WSI.

Secondary Chinese airlines too that can't get SYD slots. Maybe Juneyao.

 

[Lynda2475]

And yes I have a bit of a vested interest in seeing WSI not only survive but thrive as it affects my hip pocket

Wont affect mine as it is far far cheaper to commute to/from SYD, so I can not see a situation where Id ever choose to use WSI. but it is imo misusing tax payer money which would be better invested elsewhere.

Noting none of my super is invested in WSI (why invest in something that will not be very successful).

 

[jase05]

Wont affect mine as it is far far cheaper to commute to/from SYD, so I can not see a situation where Id ever choose to use WSI. but it is imo misusing tax payer money which would be better invested elsewhere.

Noting none of my super is invested in WSI (why invest in something that will not be very successful).

I’m in management of air freight so our bonuses are going to nearly triple going by growth forecasts. The more flights into WSI the better I say

 

[RooFlyer]

That there were better options like lifting curfew at SYD;

You may be the last person to realise that that can never happen and will never happen. Like your previous suggestion of creating a new runway out in Botany Bay.

SYD works for those who live in Sydney

I'll think we'll have to call it the A3 curtain - no-one west of it exists.

Anyone here who thinks WSI will be more popular or superior to SYD in their lifetime is deluding themselves.

Has anyone here actually suggested anything like that? No.