Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[justinbrett]

Except NRT is still out in the countryside after all the years after opening. WSI is starting off from the edge of the urban conurbation.

You could think of it this way - SYD is on the eastern edge of greater Sydney and WSI is on the western edge.

And if JR were building and operating the public transport to WSI it would be a raging success too.

Sadly it’s not.

NRT is better linked to Tokyo city than WSI will ever be to Sydney city.

 

[elanshin]

Ultimately WSI won't be measured on how well it does day 1 but possibly by the mid 2030s.

Well Im not concerned with LCCs, only full service airlines.

I don't expect many full service airlines to move over especially onces with SYD slots. Again you can choose to ignore WSI from your skyscanner search if you want. But i suspect WSI will open the door for a lot more LCC and other existing "full" service carriers to expand their Sydney network.

SQ, CX, MH all have incentives and a late night Melbourne flight that times well with their onwards morning flights. I wouldnt be surprised if airlines like Batik Air or Air Asia increases presence in Sydney. Maybe Zipair too from WSI. With some of the slots shifted out of SYD, you could see other full carriers come into SYD as well.

I wouldn't mind seeing BR, JX, WY (especially once they join OW), TK operate out of SYD in the future once theres more slots available just to name some.

And if JR were building and operating the public transport to WSI it would be a raging success too.

Sadly it’s not.

NRT is better linked to Tokyo city than WSI will ever be to Sydney city.

I think it's telling that it takes the same amount of time to go from JFK to Time Square as it does for NRT to Tokyo station despite one only being about 27-28km and the other being 70km.

Still it's not terrible for now and MEL will still be the joke of the main Australian capital cities for airport rail link.

 

[Himeno]

Still it's not terrible for now and MEL will still be the joke of the main Australian capital cities for airport rail link.

You mean CBR isn't a joke for the lack of a rail link?

 

[RooFlyer]

And if JR were building and operating the public transport to WSI it would be a raging success too.

Sadly it’s not.

NRT is better linked to Tokyo city than WSI will ever be to Sydney city.

Ever? Big call

NRT was opened in 1978 - 46 years ago! Let’s give WSI 46 years - or even 10 or 20 - and see how the transport is then. And after all this time I don’t think there is a direct connection between NRT and HND is there? You have to do the limousine bus thing? ( For those fretting about connections between the two Sydney airports.)

And also give things like hotels some time, for those fretting that there is apparently only one Hotel planned on opening.

 

[elanshin]

Ever? Big call

NRT was opened in 1978 - 46 years ago! Let’s give WSI 46 years - or even 10 or 20 - and see how the transport is then. And after all this time I don’t think there is a direct connection between NRT and HND is there? You have to do the limousine bus thing? ( For those fretting about connections between the two Sydney airports.)

The Toei Asakusa with through running onto other different companies goes from both NRT to HND.

It's just not necessarily the quickest option, but it is one train.

 

[justinbrett]

Ever? Big call

NRT was opened in 1978 - 46 years ago! Let’s give WSI 46 years - or even 10 or 20 - and see how the transport is then.

How old is Tulla?

Yes you can get a direct train from NRT to HND.

 

[dairyfloss]

You mean CBR isn't a joke for the lack of a rail link?

Doesn’t count when you can ride a bike into town in 15 mins

 

[RooFlyer]

How old is Tulla?

Well, I remembering it opening ( and it’s theme song) but we are talking about Sydney (and someone else likened WSI to NRT). NSW has always been better about infrastructure compared to Victoria.

Fact is, all this talk and anguish about lack of transport to WSI, hotels and all that stuff is a bit silly given that it’s still years away from opening and on upon opening it will be relatively small operation.

The transport and Hotel options will grow commensurately with the airport capacity.

 

[Himeno]

Ever? Big call

NRT was opened in 1978 - 46 years ago! Let’s give WSI 46 years - or even 10 or 20 - and see how the transport is then. And after all this time I don’t think there is a direct connection between NRT and HND is there?

From Haneda to Narita | Access | Haneda Airport Passenger Terminal

How to get to Narita from Haneda. This is the official website for the Haneda Airport Passenger Terminal.

tokyo-haneda.com

Trains run between both airports on tracks of 3 different companies. Keikyu from HND to Shinagawa, Toei Asakusa subway to Oshiage (near Tokyo skytree), then Keisei to Narita.

There is only limited service without transfers, mostly in the morning.

 

[justinbrett]

Well, I remembering it opening ( and it’s theme song) but we are talking about Sydney (and someone else likened WSI to NRT). NSW has always been better about infrastructure compared to Victoria.

Fact is, all this talk and anguish about lack of transport to WSI, hotels and all that stuff is a bit silly given that it’s still years away from opening and on upon opening it will be relatively small operation.

The transport and Hotel options will grow commensurately with the airport capacity.

Japan has been all about infrastructure compared to NSW. That was my point.

When I said that NRT is better connected, I’m not just saying the fact it has a direct train to the city, it’s the complete transport infrastructure with many options and direct services all over Tokyo. I moved hotels from NRT to Yokohama and when I asked the hotel the best way to get to Yokohama I couldn’t believe there was a direct train all the way. It was brilliant.

 

[SYD]

Doesn’t count when you can ride a bike into town in 15 mins

Right now, you could consider WSI to be NRT. Maybe in 30 years, they'll expand SYD into the bay and do what they did for HND.

In 30 years, the QF F lounge might be harbour front!

 

[SYD]

Last night, Channel 7 News ran the first of a series of “exclusive” stories (ie puff piece) on WSI.

Riddle me this. The runway is done (painted, lights in and operating), the terminal built (“looks like it could already welcome planes”). Yet it’s still not due to open until 2026? Why .

I appreciate that air safety and certification etc takes time but that does seem to be a long time.

As mentioned earlier, I’m unlikely to ever use WSI, but if the WSI 24 hr ops can help with the SYD T1 6am “rush hour”, that’ll be a good thing!

Yesterday (Sunday) morning - I’ve never seen it this bad with hoards of people lining up for the new kiosks, right back to the international transfers. They had cattle runs and all.


Fortunately, they still have half dozen kiosks right near the smartgates - so keep left, pass thru duty free, pass the next throng of people and veer right towards the smartgates.

 

[p--and--t]

Maybe a bit harsh but seems a bit rough people comparing Tokyo (37m) to Sydney (6m) and a 46yo airport to one that hasn't opened yet.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Riddle me this. The runway is done (painted, lights in and operating), the terminal built (“looks like it could already welcome planes”). Yet it’s still not due to open until 2026? Why .

What you're seeing is the physical build, think structures, concrete, dirt etc. Infrastructure projects these days are equally sophisticated in the systems and IT they involved. Lots of black boxes, lots of programming, that all needs to synchronise together before opening. The testing and commissioning phase for these things can be months, even years long. Last thing you want is an 18month delay like they experienced at Denver simply due to the baggage handling system not working.

 

[SYD]

What you're seeing is the physical build, think structures, concrete, dirt etc. Infrastructure projects these days are equally sophisticated in the systems and IT they involved. Lots of black boxes, lots of programming, that all needs to synchronise together before opening. The testing and commissioning phase for these things can be months, even years long. Last thing you want is an 18month delay like they experienced at Denver simply due to the baggage handling system not working.

Yep, I appreciate that (I have a background in complex Project Management). But they’ve moved well past earth works and pouring concrete. Well, apart from some tidy up around the aprons and terminals.

Yes, a bunch of systems need testing and certification but 2 years is a very long time for that. I can only suspect that a key piece of the puzzle is yet to come (possibly running late).

 

[SeatBackForward]

Yes, a bunch of systems need testing and certification but 2 years is a very long time for that. I can only suspect that a key piece of the puzzle is yet to come (possibly running late).

Yeah, there could be so many things in addition to the testing such as regulatory requirements or the other transport connections. I'd rather them be more conservative on it then overpromise and underdeliver.

Edit: Just a parallel example, when Sydney Metro was being built, one of the regulatory issues that had to be dealt with was that there were no Australian regulations on operating a driverless railway, everything upto now assumed traditional railways involving signals and drivers etc, so the whole framework had to be redesigned to suit this. I doubt WSI will be to that extent given we have many other airports already, but I have nod doubt that each new airport introduces more and more new things that have to be considered against all existing rules.

 

[Himeno]

Last thing you want is an 18month delay like they experienced at Denver simply due to the baggage handling system not working.

nah, DEN was fine. It's BER you want to avoid.

 

[SYD]

A bit like this…..

Western Sydney Airport selects CDC Data Centres for digital air traffic control tower

Will see new airport manage flight traffic digitally

www.datacenterdynamics.com

nah, DEN was fine. It's BER you want to avoid.

BER is ok now but yes, a lesson in how not to develop a new airport.

 

[yachty]

So only 1 hotel, with no brand or class noted, probably an Ibis Budget (no thanks).

It'll be a Marriott

Marriott seals deal to run first hotel at Western Sydney Aerotropolis

Take a look at the first hotel planned for the new airport precinct, part of a bigger regional play by the developer.

www.afr.com

NRT was opened in 1978 - 46 years ago! Let’s give WSI 46 years - or even 10 or 20 - and see how the transport is then.

And to further your point, it took a while to sort things out there too. If you took the Keisei Skyliner to Narita in the 70s and 80s, you terminated at what is now Higashi Narita Station and took a bus to the terminal.

The current Terminal 1 station was there when Narita opened in the 70s but it was earmarked for the Narita Shinkansen, which never happened, so it wasn't put into use until 1991 by JR or Keisei.

 

[dairyfloss]

It'll be a Marriott

*Courtyard by Marriott...