"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[Mr H]

We fly internationally 2-3 times a year (Asia/ Europe mostly) often during peak winter and Christmas so the availability of international J seats is very important for us. At the moment, you just can't beat SQ and QR availability on Velocity.

QR premium seats out of Australia were not available for at least two weeks over Christmas and New Year 2024-25. SQ was very patchy as almost all of the availability had been taken by KrisFlyer members. Plus Velocity makes you book sector by sector on most through routes and there are no connections once you get off the QR/SQ trunk routes. UA, if available, seems to have been charging in the millions.

 

[levelnine]

I think the point is that many regular members of QFF are more realistic with what they can attain and wanting to attain. Don't play the churning game or have high spend with big points balances and probably have the aspiration to get "some" value out of these points.

While it is of course true that a very large percentage of Qantas' 15+ million members would have very low points balances and will never be able to redeem for long-haul premium cabins, let's not forget the following facts that suggest there is way more demand for long-haul premium cabins than this post implies:

1. Qantas' Head of Loyalty has herself said the main bug bear of the program is the lack of award options for long-haul premium cabin seats.
2. Qantas members earned 99 billion (that is 99,000,000,000) points in the last six months. That's up from 88 billion the same time last year. There is an enormous number of points out there chasing redemptions.
3. Qantas Loyalty is now a billion dollar business in terms of revenue earn. Its operating margin is higher than any other part of the Qantas Group. This isn't some minor part of the game for Qantas.

 

[MooTime]

QR premium seats out of Australia were not available for at least two weeks over Christmas and New Year 2024-25. SQ was very patchy as almost all of the availability had been taken by KrisFlyer members. Plus Velocity makes you book sector by sector on most through routes and there are no connections once you get off the QR/SQ trunk routes. UA, if available, seems to have been charging in the millions.

Each system doesn't work for everyone.

 

[levelnine]

QR premium seats out of Australia were not available for at least two weeks over Christmas and New Year 2024-25. SQ was very patchy as almost all of the availability had been taken by KrisFlyer members. Plus Velocity makes you book sector by sector on most through routes and there are no connections once you get off the QR/SQ trunk routes. UA, if available, seems to have been charging in the millions.

UA had buckets of award availability right through the peak season this year. Indeed, there was barely a day through December/January where you couldn't get 4+ J seats out of Australia to the US on United. They tended to appear 4 weeks from departure, but some appeared up to 3 months out. Coming back to Australia was a little more difficult, but still had good availability.

 

[mviy]

I have plenty of points but finding even just 1 premium return seat to LHR at peak travelling times is a big problem.

Put in for upgrades as late as at the gate from Y for my last return trip to LHR which was in the UK summer and failed both ways. I was a SG back then too.

 

[Rich]

I reckon of COURSE everyone WANTS premium rewards - I mean that's a no brainer. I think the point is that many regular members of QFF are more realistic with what they can attain and wanting to attain. Don't play the churning game or have high spend with big points balances and probably have the aspiration to get "some" value out of these points. Like taking the kids on a holiday to the theme parks or perhaps to disneyland. It's a stereotype for sure, but probably not too far from the mark in a general sense. There was a thread on AFF recently regarding the best use of 50k points to potentially get to Asaia iirc. That was talking Y. Many folks here probably consider 50k points to be pretty small amount but we have to remember that to mny that would be a fair sum, and represent a fair deal of saving. I guess it's all about perspective isn't it? Many of us (myself included) come from that of being used to premium cabins, lounges etc. I try and put myself into the shoes of others though and consider what realistic goals might be. Years ago, I upgraded my (Bronze, rarely flies) sister on some domestic flights. As mundane (to many of us) as you can imagine. She came back saying she "felt like a princess" and many might scoff at that, but that is where her level of experience and expectation were (so it was a delight to me to give her that simple pleasure ). There was a lot of excitement yesterday for the people getting on that A380 MEL-SYD as a oot of "free upgrades" to Business even on that short flight.

Yeah, your QFF member with a few kids and 50k points would love to sit in J to go somewhere, but they also probably want to take those kids on a special trip someplace with those points - and that's a totally different equation to many of us but I dare say quite common spread across the 15m QFF members out there.

There's the apsirational and then there's the "I will never be able to fly First Class" notion.

We meet that stereotype! My wife and I have flown 3 times to the USA on QF with 3 kids. 2 on points (the other was going to be on points but we gave up our booking when a sale come up within 24 hours). All in economy. To me, just getting 5 reward tickets is a bonus. $13k less to spend for our last trip to start with.
On that first trip we wanted and would have taken J if we could (and would burnt all our points) but of course 5 tickets in December is unlikely. And to be honest sitting with young kids either side in A380 is not too bad at all. Last year we had a MEL to DFW 17 hour flight and J seats were actually available but we chose not to do it. It would have been about 375k in points extra. I'd rather save that for another trip (or 1 of our 2 future OWA tickets in J), so no regrets. So even though "I'd like to fly in J" when it comes to the crunch I still might not do it and I bet I am not alone. (I am a bit the same on a short domestic flight, if I have lounge access already. Why pay more than double?)

 

[RichardMEL]

Also need to factor in Oneworld upgrades that are coming this year

So we keep hearing.. for the last 5 years at least! lol (but point taken)

 

[Mr H]

Indeed, there was barely a day through December/January where you couldn't get 4+ J seats out of Australia to the US on United. They tended to appear 4 weeks from departure, but some appeared up to 3 months out. Coming back to Australia was a little more difficult, but still had good availability.

This is helpful for people who want to travel with very little notice, but that might be even more niche than my own travel style. And when you book your outbound journey you have to hope that availability will be made available for your return - either days before you travel or even after your travel has started. Plus, booking so late you’ll be paying top dollar for accommodation and on the ground stuff. If it works for you then that’s great. I’ll stick to my trips to Muslim and Communist countries booked well in advance with convoluted routing - using QF points.

 

[RichardMEL]

OT, but UA has so massively ramped up flying to Oz with more or less flights to MEL/SYD/BNE from SFO and LAX, plus IAH-SYD that there's massive capacity there (mostly reallocated from China flying it seems) so that's a boon for flying to the US for those with UA, Star or VA miles. However yes more often closer in availability vs further out that I've noted from UA at least - specially at peak times. They definitely hold back a lot of inventory to try and sell.

So great for flex people who can decide to or want to go with short notice (and QF can sometimes pop up J and F rewards in short timeframes too) but still more difficult for forward planners with fixed dates/destinations etc - though yes it does seem VA has far better access to availability (or perhaps less folks going for it?)

 

[jase05]

So we keep hearing.. for the last 5 years at least! lol (but point taken)

And we still do t know how that’s going to work.
As we have already seen with the various OW programs and how some don’t release award availability to others. I’d presume this will be the case for upgrades too.

 

[jase05]

OT, but UA has so massively ramped up flying to Oz with more or less flights to MEL/SYD/BNE from SFO and LAX, plus IAH-SYD that there's massive capacity there (mostly reallocated from China flying it seems) so that's a boon for flying to the US for those with UA, Star or VA miles. However yes more often closer in availability vs further out that I've noted from UA at least - specially at peak times. They definitely hold back a lot of inventory to try and sell.

So great for flex people who can decide to or want to go with short notice (and QF can sometimes pop up J and F rewards in short timeframes too) but still more difficult for forward planners with fixed dates/destinations etc - though yes it does seem VA has far better access to availability (or perhaps less folks going for it?)

And this is the way I see QF going with their own metal.
Perhaps at something like 30 days out they will open up more or all remaining seats to CR.
This would fulfill their “promise” of releasing more CR seats, it’s just that you won’t be able to book until a month out.

 

[RichardMEL]

And we still do t know how that’s going to work.
As we have already seen with the various OW programs and how some don’t release award availability to others. I’d presume this will be the case for upgrades too.

Star have had cross alliance upgrades for years now, but it's pretty restrictive, requiring higher fares and other conditions to work. I've never even tried it due to this. I tend to think OW will, if they ever make it happen, will make it hard to use for most in the same mould.

 

[levelnine]

This is helpful for people who want to travel with very little notice, but that might be even more niche than my own travel style. And when you book your outbound journey you have to hope that availability will be made available for your return - either days before you travel or even after your travel has started. Plus, booking so late you’ll be paying top dollar for accommodation and on the ground stuff. If it works for you then that’s great.

1. Book your United award flights in economy: there's currently award space for 4+ people from Australia to the US for pretty much every day in December 2024.
2. Book accommodation and on the ground stuff.
3. If premium cabin availability emerges before the flight, which occurs for most flights, switch to that. If not, take your economy flight.

This isn't possible with Qantas because (a) there isn't even economy award availability and (b) the chances of 4 J seats becoming available is next to zero.

I’ll stick to my trips to Muslim and Communist countries booked well in advance with convoluted routing - using QF points.

That's great, but that means this thread isn't for you.

It's like entering a thread discussing how to get tickets to a Taylor Swift concert and going 'I'm happy going to Metallica concerts — what's the problem?'

 

[Aggi]

My bugbear with J CRs is that if there is only a seat available on one way then I would be happy to pay the J fare the other way if it was priced at half the return cost rather than close to the return price.
So Qantas please price your J international one way fares the same way you price domestic (half the cost) to give FFs the ability to mix rewards with revenue fares.

 

[Mr H]

1. Book your United award flights in economy: there's currently award space for 4+ people from Australia to the US for pretty much every day in December 2024.
2. Book accommodation and on the ground stuff.
3. If premium cabin availability emerges before the flight, which occurs for most flights, switch to that. If not, take your economy flight.

This isn't possible with Qantas because (a) there isn't even economy award availability and (b) the chances of 4 J seats becoming available is next to zero.


That's great, but that means this thread isn't for you.

It's like entering a thread discussing how to get tickets to a Taylor Swift concert and going 'I'm happy going to Metallica concerts — what's the problem?'

I would not want to be lumbered with overnight flights in Y - I collect points so I don't have to worry about possibilities like that. While I have had to make compromises on routing, I have been able to go pretty much wherever I want to go in Europe, Asia and north Africa using Qantas points. Cuba over Christmas seems to have been a breaking point, but Velocity and KrisFlyer were no more helpful. I am having to route through SYD, AKL, HKG, KUL, BKK, HEL, LHR and MIA - and finish off on a revenue fare on Delta (a US regional airline, presumably based in Mississippi). Coming back MIA-HEL-DEL (I love Delhi stopovers) and then using KrisFlyer points to get home.

I travel alone, so not looking for 4xJ seats. Maybe there are points whales who would like to ship four people around the world in J but I couldn't imagine spunking up well over a million points on a family holiday to somewhere on a trunk route. Most of my points-collecting friends who travel en famille seem to look for single redemption seats in Y to save ~25% off their revenue fares. They feel well cheated when they can't get those seats because they feel that was what they were promised.

I know my choice of destination is not always mainstream, but I am a QFF member just the same as you and I have as much right to participate on this thread as you. The difference between us, if I might be so bold, is that I understand and respect that people come in different varieties and look for a range of different things. You seem to think that everyone does (or should) make the same choices as you.

 

[RichardMEL]

My bugbear with J CRs is that if there is only a seat available on one way then I would be happy to pay the J fare the other way if it was priced at half the return cost rather than close to the return price.
So Qantas please price your J international one way fares the same way you price domestic (half the cost) to give FFs the ability to mix rewards with revenue fares.

This is legacy pricing long in play by majority of carriers. Doubt it will change anytime soon. Specially when the other internationals won't. Targeted at the business traveller I suspect.

 

[Mr H]

My bugbear with J CRs is that if there is only a seat available on one way then I would be happy to pay the J fare the other way if it was priced at half the return cost rather than close to the return price.
So Qantas please price your J international one way fares the same way you price domestic (half the cost) to give FFs the ability to mix rewards with revenue fares.

QF may not do half-price singles but there are other airlines that do better deals on one-way tix. IIRC when I emigrated to Australia many years ago, NZ one ways were good value.

 

[ozflier]

So we keep hearing.. for the last 5 years at least! lol (but point taken)

My experience with Star Alliance Upgrades is that you can only upgrade a pretty hefty base fare to the next available cabin- not sure if OW will be any different !
On top of this , OW carriers seem to be less sympathetic to other alliance members now - eg BA reducing reward seat release til close to departure time or AA and AS much more stingy with award seats being offered to OW members vs their own.

 

[levelnine]

I would not want to be lumbered with overnight flights in Y - I collect points so I don't have to worry about possibilities like that. While I have had to make compromises on routing, I have been able to go pretty much wherever I want to go in Europe, Asia and north Africa using Qantas points. Cuba over Christmas seems to have been a breaking point, but Velocity and KrisFlyer were no more helpful. I am having to route through SYD, AKL, HKG, KUL, BKK, HEL, LHR and MIA - and finish off on a revenue fare on Delta (a US regional airline, presumably based in Mississippi). Coming back MIA-HEL-DEL (I love Delhi stopovers) and then using KrisFlyer points to get home.

I travel alone, so not looking for 4xJ seats. Maybe there are points whales who would like to ship four people around the world in J but I couldn't imagine spunking up well over a million points on a family holiday to somewhere on a trunk route. Most of my points-collecting friends who travel en famille seem to look for single redemption seats in Y to save ~25% off their revenue fares. They feel well cheated when they can't get those seats because they feel that was what they were promised.

I know my choice of destination is not always mainstream, but I am a QFF member just the same as you and I have as much right to participate on this thread as you. The difference between us, if I might be so bold, is that I understand and respect that people come in different varieties and look for a range of different things. You seem to think that everyone does (or should) make the same choices as you.

This is an utterly bizarre post.

Qantas is proposing to introduce a new tier of rewards at a higher price with greater availability for the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people that simply want to redeem their points for premium long-haul travel on Qantas metal — your regular single person/couple/small family looking to fly from Australia to Europe/North America/Asia and back.

As I correctly said, Qantas currently offers these people nothing unless they are Platinum and above or lucky enough to score seats on a batch release. They are far better collecting Velocity or bank points because at least that gives them some options to travel internationally with a good chance of being able to score seats in premium cabins, even if not guaranteed.

That is why Qantas is releasing this new product — to stop disengagement with Qantas Loyalty.

There are niches of people (in your case, self-identified) for whom the program appears to work well. This forthcoming announcement is not about addressing the lack of concern of a handful of people. This forthcoming announcement is about addressing the very real concerns of hundreds of thousands of people.

The real questions for discussion are how much is the solution going to cost and how much of the problem will it solve.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF may not do half-price singles but there are other airlines that do better deals on one-way tix. IIRC when I emigrated to Australia many years ago, NZ one ways were good value.

Good point. I've combined ine way QF rewards with other airlines like this - either paid or reward seats. Onexreason being able to gave a footprint across multiple programs/alliances is so helpful at times (not practical fo many of course I know)