Virgin Blue signs order for 50 new Boeing 737 jets

[dajop]

iOn that note I don't think dj will get a return investment on the embraiers .

Well interesting comment, hard to assess. The ERJ's were essential to get DJ some sort of "in" to the fed govt market, giving reasonable frequencies into CBR from SYD/MEL, that wouldn't be economic using 737s. Also they have helped DJ get into the WA market. And they seem to be doing OK to places like PQQ/ABX/MQL. Big call to say they won't get a return on this investment.

 

[markis10]

The e jets are feeding valuable interline traffic into the network that could not be economically serviced by a 737 or not serviced at all in the cases of some airports. It would be interesting to see the figures for pax at PMQ when its jet versus prop for instance.

ROK is also a good example of where they work well, despite the airport being more than capable of handling larger aircraft (they get 747-400s often and have had C5's/AN124's) the E Jets get good loads, and should see a better increase now that Deathstar services have been replaced by the crash8link. Compare that to the pricing offered just down the road at GLT where there is one airline servicing the airport owing to runway constraints!

 

[YQY]

I don't think the days of widebodies are numbered. I think you will find a bunch of 787's will replace the 767's that Qantas currently operate domestically.

I hope so - overhead luggage space is a squeeze on the 734/8 during peak period. Disembarking/embarking on the wide bodies is better as well.

 

[maninblack]

I think, however, there will come a point where they will have to look at widebodies on at least some routes, simply for capacity. The questions though are when and what with:

1) The 777 is probably too big (and without getting a tape measure out, not sure how it goes at fitting into some of the areas DJ has at the golden triangle airports)
2) The A330 maybe, but they may not want to go down the airbus path
3) The 787 - maybe at some point they will go that way, but they may not be able to get hold of any for a while

Why? Southwest have always run an all 737 fleet and profitably too which is a rarity for the US. QF fly a lot of half full 763 MEL-SYD during the day. With 739ER's carrying over 200 passengers I don't see a big problem.

 

[pauly7]

Well interesting comment, hard to assess. The ERJ's were essential to get DJ some sort of "in" to the fed govt market, giving reasonable frequencies into CBR from SYD/MEL, that wouldn't be economic using 737s. Also they have helped DJ get into the WA market. And they seem to be doing OK to places like PQQ/ABX/MQL. Big call to say they won't get a return on this investment.

I think the OP of this comment on the ERJ's may have been referring to alot of the not well publicised issues DJ have had with them.

I wouldn't go as far to say as they won't get a ROI - ever, but all the internal chatter from the Village is still very mixed about them due to some major issues with manintneance, reliability and efficiency. Talk to any village member after a beer and ask them how are the jungle jets (slang for the ERJ's!) going and you will get quite an interesting conversations.

However they are critical to feed the DJ 737 arms, QFLink does well in its own right but just feeds the hungry QF mainline arm so well and efficiently that DJ had to have a crack.

I do believe though once petrol prices head back up, DJ will be in trouble again with the ERJ's if they can't iron out all the operating issues by then. I would even suggest DJ might even look at some turbo props.....

 

[tuppaware]

I heard the issues with them was the cost of certification in Australia was quite high , and the maintenance was an issue yet to be sorted out yet.

 

[anat0l]

QFLink does well in its own right

I'd call "baloney!" on that one only because QFLink has a very horrible OTP; not sure if they are worse than JQ or not.

In saying that, I haven't had one QFLink flight delayed, so not sure where all the drops in performance are coming from. Not to mention service is going to the dogs, but at least for most part the cabin crew can be quite cheery compared to their mainline counterparts.

I would even suggest DJ might even look at some turbo props.....

Well, wouldn't that be considered eating your own shirt... (and flip-flopping too)

 

[737]

I'd call "baloney!" on that one only because QFLink has a very horrible OTP; not sure if they are worse than JQ or not.

OT I know... but just to clarify for the year ending DEC '09... QFLink had the highest % OTP with 87.3%, and mainline just behind at 87.2%. Jetstar was 78.3%

QFLink is up there most months in terms of OTP.

 

[anat0l]

OT I know... but just to clarify for the year ending DEC '09... QFLink had the highest % OTP with 87.3%, and mainline just behind at 87.2%. Jetstar was 78.3%

QFLink is up there most months in terms of OTP.

Interesting. Looking at the QF website over the last few recorded months, QFLink seems to be lagging the mainline.

Also, the difference of about 0.1% better performance isn't very significant, especially considering the differences between the numbers of flights (and the sizes and ages of the fleets) between mainline and 'Link.

I've also seen a few months of QFLink OTP coming in at less than 65%. I couldn't cite these right away, so I'm not discounting that I could be very wrong.

 

[Mal]

I've also seen a few months of QFLink OTP coming in at less than 65%. I couldn't cite these right away, so I'm not discounting that I could be very wrong.

If you get bored, you can churn through the OTP timeline data - http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/14/Files/OTP Time Series (Master)_m.xls (Note ~10Mb).

Otherwise, the individual monthly reports here: Airline On Time Performance Monthly Reports give the same information well totalled and summarised.

 

[markis10]

I heard the issues with them was the cost of certification in Australia was quite high , and the maintenance was an issue yet to be sorted out yet.

Strange, they were not the first operators in Australia.

 

[tuppaware]

Strange, they were not the first operators in Australia.

Virgin Blue > News and Press Releases

The Brazilian jets – the first of their type to operate scheduled services in the Australasian region will give the Virgin Blue Group significant additional operating flexibility, while increasing efficiency through lower fuel burn.

And I believe a large cost went into >

Virgin Blue's EMBRAER 190 jets, configured with 104 seats, in a single- class layout, will be the first of this model in the world to operate with ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operations) certification, starting in the first half of 2008.

 

[markis10]

DJ were not the first operators of the E Jets on RPT services in Australia, Air North were.

They were the first operator of E190s by two weeks over SkyAirWorld and the first to receive a factory certified ETOPs aircraft, they had been Australian ETOPS certified since 2003 so there was no real cost involved that was any different to another type being introduced.

In short there were no additional costs of certification in Australia for the e jets experienced by DJ, Air North, SkyAirWorld/PG who have/had run them in their fleet. This is borne out by the fact DJ ordered more after their introduction, indicating they had great faith in the product. Most of the E Jets problems have been attributed to airlines that have not run a DC9 sized aircraft before, and the issues faced with loads etc, look how much QF moved their 717s about before they found a niche - same story.

 

[harvyk]

Why? Southwest have always run an all 737 fleet and profitably too which is a rarity for the US. QF fly a lot of half full 763 MEL-SYD during the day. With 739ER's carrying over 200 passengers I don't see a big problem.

The US is a very different market.

Most cities are fairly close together, and there is no golden triangle which carries the bulk of pax.

In comparison with here where in the "golden triangle" both the SYD - MEL (sitting between 3 \ 4) and SYD - BNE (sitting at 10) routes have appeared in the top 10 of busiest routes in the world, we have a major capital city which has nothing near it for 1000 km in every direction.

Also airlines (especially au airlines it seems to be) are not stupid, they wouldn't put widebodies onto a route which they couldn't make a profit on. I'd bet those "empty" 767's QF flys during the day between SYD \ MEL is loaded up with freight.

 

[oz_mark]

Why? Southwest have always run an all 737 fleet and profitably too which is a rarity for the US. QF fly a lot of half full 763 MEL-SYD during the day. With 739ER's carrying over 200 passengers I don't see a big problem.

At some point they are going to hit limits on slots and gates.

Time will tell which way they go, I guess we will have to wait and see which way there new CEO takes them!

 

[YQY]

I'd bet those "empty" 767's QF flys during the day between SYD \ MEL is loaded up with freight.

On the SYD-MEL route - there are no 767's flying between 1000/1030 and 1430/1500 on week days only 734/8's.

 

[markis10]

On the SYD-MEL route - there are no 767's flying between 1000/1030 and 1430/1500 on week days only 734/8's.

They get routed to Brisbane and Perth during that time.

 

[ric_melb]

Actually if I check the Qantas timetable I find they are flying plenty of 767 SYD/MEL on weekdays between 10.00 and 15.00.
For example this coming Thursday:

10.00
10.30
11.00
12.00
13.00
14.30

 

[straitman]

Good to see that this thread is a normal AFF thread and has wandered right OT :!::shock:

 

[pauly7]

I'd call "baloney!" on that one only because QFLink has a very horrible OTP; not sure if they are worse than JQ or not.
)

Huh? - oh sorry saw others had corrected you (edit)

Anyway I was commenting from a general commercial perspective..