Virgin Blue signs order for 50 new Boeing 737 jets

[pauly7]

Virgin Blue signs order for 50 new Boeing 737 jets
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...boeing-737-jets/story-e6frg95x-1225848430041#




VIRGIN Blue says it has signed the previously flagged agreement with Boeing to buy up to 105 new 737 aircraft, its largest ever aircraft order.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...-boeing-737-jets/story-e6frg95x-1225848430041


Well its a done deal, more 737s buzzing around Australia Not really a fan of single aisle aircraft (any carrier)...

I was actually hoping DJ would throw some widebodies against QF's 767/A330 fleet on the golden triangle + Perth routes.

Oh well, at least they are defintely getting new planes, hopefully they ditch the leather seats

 

[tuppaware]

I agree flying in the 767 is much nicer then a 737/8, esp when traveling with a partner.
Maybe DJ should of looked at a 787- that would be more cost effective on busy flights ??
Or is it a case of 'We already wasted money on the Embraer jets'??

 

[docjames]

The issue is pax want frequency on domestic routes, plus the ~250 seat a/c that are now available for sale are usually better at medium haul routes (see JQ A330s / QF same).

If they need capacity growth, it'll be to 739s due to fleet commonailty. The only alternative is A321 which wont happen. And why JQ went for A321s as an in-between for the busier short haul routes.

The days of short haul widebodies in Aus is going once QFs 763s go to the graveyard. It'll be intertesting if JQ tries to use the 788s on short haul - the turn times seemed to be a limiting factor when QF tried with the 330s - note they are now (domestically) used more on PER routes (with the occ SYD-MEL) as the turn times are less important.

Essentially, the 737/320 families are good at 150-220 pax, beyond that, the turn times become an issue, and you can go with frequency (and also then better fleet utilisation) instead of increasing a/c size. Unless the config of the 788 can be optimised for short turn times. DJ may end up using VA 777s on the "golden triangle" if they need serious capacity increase, but would need a much larger fleet of 777s to make it at all worthwhile, and it would change their whole domestic offering to do so. Which may be in longer term plans.....

YMMV.

 

[anat0l]

It's all been pointed out here.

B737s and A320s will be here for the forseeable future. For most short haul routes in Australia, by the time you take on aircraft which cater for > 200 pax, its becoming a case of using an axe when all you need is a knife. Unless you can actually fill those new widebodies, although one must consider that SYD/MEL is already one of the most busiest routes in the world, with a top frequency of one flight every 30 minutes. I don't know how many more aircraft you can cram in order to make that more frequent (two aircraft leaving every 30 minutes? one every 15 minutes?), so instead of having more planes you use bigger ones...

The B788 might fill the void of the 763s, because something has to - for QF, some of the 763 domestic routes (particularly in the golden triangle) need to keep that kind of capacity for obvious reasons of demand. I'm not sure how flexible the B788 will be configured to meet this (plus economics, turnaround times, etc.), or whether QF will resolve by simply putting more smaller aircraft rather than one aircraft.

Cross-country and long domestic flights (i.e. those of 2.5 hrs or greater) will be suitable for something like B788s or A330s, although I don't know many such routes which have the frequency of that in the golden triangle (where either turnaround must be short or more aircraft will be required to compensate for longer turnaround times).

In this case, however, it seems interesting that DJ is pursuing more 737s (I don't know about how flexible 739s or potential future iterations will be), however I guess there is nothing stopping them, as has been said, from putting a 773 on a cross-country flight. Also, the decision is consistent with the model of minimising costs by limiting the types of planes in a fleet.

 

[medhead]

Well I'm ever so slightly confused. I'm sure they said that they are getting like 50 737-900 with the profit annoucement. I assume the 105 new aircraft includes those 739s and the 50 738NGs

 

[tuppaware]

Golden Triangle - remind me

BNE-SYD-MEL or SYD-MEL-CBR ??

(I mean , like who would want to visit CBR )

 

[anat0l]

Golden Triangle - remind me

BNE-SYD-MEL or SYD-MEL-CBR ??

(I mean , like who would want to visit CBR )

I don't know about everyone else, but in Australia, BNE/SYD/MEL is the Golden Triangle. Most frequent and busiest routes.

 

[oz_mark]

Well its a done deal, more 737s buzzing around Australia Not really a fan of single aisle aircraft (any carrier)...

Hard to say there will be more buzzing around. Virgin Blue does say that a number of the new planes is to replace some existing planes. Looks like DJ is planning on running a younger fleet than QF!

The B788 might fill the void of the 763s, because something has to - for QF, some of the 763 domestic routes (particularly in the golden triangle) need to keep that kind of capacity for obvious reasons of demand. I'm not sure how flexible the B788 will be configured to meet this (plus economics, turnaround times, etc.), or whether QF will resolve by simply putting more smaller aircraft rather than one aircraft.

One of the design aims of the 788 was that it was going to be a replacement for the 762 and 763 aircraft (or at least the ER variant of the same). My assumption is that there will be an international and domestic config version of the 788.

 

[anat0l]

Virgin Blue does say that a number of the new planes is to replace some existing planes. Looks like DJ is planning on running a younger fleet than QF!

I think we all saw that one coming. (Fat chance DJ would run an old fleet, plus how "old" do you think you can run a 737? OK I know QF have some pretty damn old 734s....)

Had Airbus and Boeing pulled it altogether and GFC didn't happen, QF might have on average a much younger fleet than it does now.

 

[harvyk]

Golden Triangle - remind me

BNE-SYD-MEL or SYD-MEL-CBR ??

(I mean , like who would want to visit CBR )

BNE-SYD-MEL

That said, there CBR to MEL and CBR to SYD are both well serviced, with 17 CBR-MEL (vv) flights daily and 27 CBR-SYD (vv) flights daily, there is for the most part one flight every half an hour to an hour, to be honest it's more frequent than my local bus service.

 

[Flying Fox]

Buying some 767s or 787s would simply complicate their aircraft mix and lead to higher costs for maintenance & operations. With their history as a LCC, I think that this would go against their gain.

And yes I do know that they have non 737s in their fleet.

 

[tuppaware]

Buying some 767s or 787s would simply complicate their aircraft mix and lead to higher costs for maintenance & operations. With their history as a LCC, I think that this would go against their gain.

And yes I do know that they have non 737s in their fleet.

i wouldn't call dj a LCC anymore, maybe a 'new'world carrier !

On that note I don't think dj will get a return investment on the embraiers .

 

[straitman]

Well I'm ever so slightly confused. I'm sure they said that they are getting like 50 737-900 with the profit annoucement. I assume the 105 new aircraft includes those 739s and the 50 738NGs

We must remember that business and the airlines are very good at rebadging these announcements :!: They obviously learnt it from government.

 

[oz_mark]

We must remember that business and the airlines are very good at rebadging these announcements :!: They obviously learnt it from government.

At the time of the profit announcement, it was an in principle agreement. Now they have signed off.

 

[straitman]

At the time of the profit announcement, it was an in principle agreement. Now they have signed off.

oz_mark,

As usual an appropriate and logical explanation.

Thanks.

 

[Flying Fox]

i wouldn't call dj a LCC anymore, maybe a 'new'world carrier !

I agree with you there but I was simply pointing out one of the pillars of a LCC airline from which the current VB was born.

 

[anat0l]

On that note I don't think dj will get a return investment on the embraiers .

Now how can you come to that conclusion?

 

[straitman]

Now how can you come to that conclusion?

I was thinking that it was an interesting comment also.

...and a big call :!:

 

[oz_mark]

Buying some 767s or 787s would simply complicate their aircraft mix and lead to higher costs for maintenance & operations. With their history as a LCC, I think that this would go against their gain.

And yes I do know that they have non 737s in their fleet.

I think, however, there will come a point where they will have to look at widebodies on at least some routes, simply for capacity. The questions though are when and what with:

1) The 777 is probably too big (and without getting a tape measure out, not sure how it goes at fitting into some of the areas DJ has at the golden triangle airports)
2) The A330 maybe, but they may not want to go down the airbus path
3) The 787 - maybe at some point they will go that way, but they may not be able to get hold of any for a while

 

[oz_mark]

The days of short haul widebodies in Aus is going once QFs 763s go to the graveyard. It'll be intertesting if JQ tries to use the 788s on short haul - the turn times seemed to be a limiting factor when QF tried with the 330s - note they are now (domestically) used more on PER routes (with the occ SYD-MEL) as the turn times are less important.

I don't think the days of widebodies are numbered. I think you will find a bunch of 787's will replace the 767's that Qantas currently operate domestically.