Virgin Blue embarks on brand overhaul

[scibo10]

As stated in another thread, the above article only confirms Virgin Australia for the domestic operations. The international operations remain unconfirmed. So its clear the speculation goes on.

My thoughts are that there will be one brand for all operations, Virgin Australia, or 2 brands, Virgin Australia for domestic and V Australia for international

Arguments for 1 brand
- In a recent interview by JB on Switzer, he seemed to suggest that there would either be 1 or 2 brands (also threw in possibility of 3, but not convincing). So if one, clearly Virgin Australia, but if two, likely Virgin Australia and the new name for what is currently called Polynesian Blue
- Aligned with JB's preference for one brand only, and the name Virgin Australia.
- Given JB's preference for one brand, maybe likely that he would have dumped the Virgin name altogether if it continued the requirement for multiple brands to be used
- Remedies the fragmentation of the Virgin brand. It wouldn't really make sense that Virgin Blue and V Australia together confuses the market, but Virgin Australia and V Australia together wouldn't.
- New management at SQ that may be more willing to negotiate
- SQ likely to be selling their 49% stake in VS to Delta/KLM or Etihad
- Board of DJ Group clearly frustrated by the inability to leverage off the Virgin brand internationally, so clearly something they would like to remedy.

Arguments for 2 brands
- SRB announced back in September that there would be 2 brands, with Pacific Blue and Polynesian Blue likely rebranding. However he also stated that the rebranding could be announced as early as October 2010, clearly a time when the Virgin Australia was not available to be used.
- SQ continue blocking the use of the name
- SRB blocks the use of the name due to disagreement of royalties
- JB announced on Switzer that whether its 1 brand or 2 is 'neither here nor there'

Well, that's all I can think of. Happy speculating everyone..

 

[lovestotravel]

If we believe this, what I said a few days back may be true.

Virgin Blue gets first Boeing 737 with futuristic 'Sky Interior' - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

Basically the new sky interior 737 already has the new seats and IFE and is sitting in a Brissy hangar.

Is this true ?

 

[MissBurrill]

I was told that the lounge annual fee is set to rise so if thinking of joining one should hurry up. Makes me wonder if prices rise who are they forming an alliance with???

 

[samh004]

Sort of tied in, had an email from Velocity today offering me a chance to win 50,000 points simply by updating my details… so I’m thinking they have a plan to roll out some new cards soon… part of a re-brand I guess.

 

[soorox]

I very confused about this re-branding

So Virgin Blue Holdings currently have 4 Airline Brands
- Virgin Blue (Australian Domestic)
- Pacific Blue (Pacific & Asia Flights)
- Polynesian Blue (Samoa's Flag Carrier)
- V Australia (International long-haul)

DJ has already confirmed that it will go through a branding overhaul, which includes Pacific Blue and possibly V Australia into "Virgin _______". It would be very confusing to see a Virgin Australia & V Australia as someone had suggested together unless they adopt same logo & livery. Theres also talk about SQ blocking them and even the Virgin group not allowing them to use it. So what's going on?

Where does it leave Polynesian Blue then? Surely with a 49% stake in the airline, the Samoan government wouldn't want it's Flag carrier to have Australia something in the title. Possibly it may stay the same or maybe Virgin Polynesia/Samoa?

 

[oz_mark]

I very confused about this re-branding

So Virgin Blue Holdings currently have 4 Airline Brands
- Virgin Blue (Australian Domestic)
- Pacific Blue (Pacific & Asia Flights)
- Polynesian Blue (Samoa's Flag Carrier)
- V Australia (International long-haul)

DJ has already confirmed that it will go through a branding overhaul, which includes Pacific Blue and possibly V Australia into "Virgin _______". It would be very confusing to see a Virgin Australia & V Australia as someone had suggested together unless they adopt same logo & livery. Theres also talk about SQ blocking them and even the Virgin group not allowing them to use it. So what's going on?

A lot of people assume that they are looking for a common brand across all the operations. However, in the interviews I've seen, the desire is to reduce the number of brands. They may end up with one brand, two brands or maybe three, but less than four. How the existing brands will fit into the new brand structure remains to be seen.

 

[markis10]

Whats wrong with Polynesian Virgin?

 

[scibo10]

It is being reported on other forums that 4 May is the likely date for the announcement of the new brand.

Interesting comment by JB today regarding this point

John Borghetti: the new Virgin Blue (Virgin Australia?) will be a multi-brand airline - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

So it appears there will likely be 2 brands. Now, will this be Virgin Australia (short haul) and V Australia (long haul), Virgin Australia (short and long haul) and something to replace Polynesian Blue, say Virgin Polynesia or Virgin Samoa, or something else altogether. Time will tell.

Wonder though if it is the first option, whether Virgin Australia will take V Australia's code VA, or retain DJ?

 

[777]

So it appears there will likely be 2 brands. Now, will this be Virgin Australia (short haul) and V Australia (long haul), Virgin Australia (short and long haul) and something to replace Polynesian Blue, say Virgin Polynesia or Virgin Samoa, or something else altogether. Time will tell.

Wonder though if it is the first option, whether Virgin Australia will take V Australia's code VA, or retain DJ?

I have no inside knowledge but my guess....

It will be Virgin Australia (Domestic) and V Australia (International) UNLESS they can convince the powers in Singapore to let them use the Virgin name internationally. If they can, i'm sure it will be Virgin Australia all round - if they can't it will be V Australia internationally until they can OR until the veto expires (which i thought was going to happen at some point soonish).

They may then be able to unite all the brands under one code -- which i would guess would be VA. They may even take the step of unifying the liveries and the branding (say the same V logo appearing on both international and domestic) if they can push it that far without breaking the agreement with s'pore.

As for Polynesian Blue - for the very small number of flights it actually performs, i doubt that they will care too much what it is called to the extent that they will let it interfere with their other plans.

I could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time.

777.

PS. Oh, and they could be about to announce - or playing a high stakes poker game over - a killer deal with Singapore to be their Asian partner and all this could be an elaborate ruse and it may be one brand after all.

 

[notzac]

Wonder though if it is the first option, whether Virgin Australia will take V Australia's code VA, or retain DJ?

I'm sure that this is a dumb question, but is there any reason that they couldn't just use the one IATA code? I know that Virgin Blue and V Australia are currently two distinct entities, but unless I'm mistaken .. the issue is with using the name "Virgin" internationally rather than anything else.

Would it not make sense to have them as the one airline (at least in terms of back-of-house operations and whatever else), then make the whole name thing a branding exercise for different routes? Would that not satisfy the legal requirements?

 

[samh004]

I an’t recall what Pacific Blue use as their code, but quite often I’ve seen a DJ code regardless for their flights (or maybe always, can’t recall). So if Pacific Blue can do it, I don’t see why V Australia and the new Virgin Blue couldn’t unite under VA.

Assuming they want it that way of course.

 

[jsd]

I an’t recall what Pacific Blue use as their code, but quite often I’ve seen a DJ code regardless for their flights (or maybe always, can’t recall).

Virgin Blue, Pacific Blue and Poly. Blue flights are all under the DJ code

 

[Misha]

It seems everyone is convinced on the Virgin Australia (domestic) operation with an international wing of V Australia. I too think that would be the most likely outcome. Agree that the livery would work if it looked the same, bar the 'irgin' inclusion domestically.

Still, would be very 'Virgin' if at announcement they came out and said it's Virgin Pacific (at first it sounds cough - but then think about Virgin Atlantic & Virgin Pacific being the two 'on par' carriers - gives them a lot of weight, though perhaps too confusingly close for many customers for two airlnes that would be different operating entities).

Regardless of the final outcome, I can't wait to see it in place and to start flying the "new" airline and use their new rewards programme I like the idea of VA for coding, DJ is far too reminiscent David Jones for me! Only concern is would they take up points earning at DJ the way they do on VA, i.e. .50 points on lower cost fares? Keep the owner operated flights at least one point per mile/dollar....

Nice.

 

[Keith009]

Well, being enthralled by all the positive changes at Virgin and miffed that I won't be making PG this year, the OH and I have put several flights to DJ after I requalify for WP upon returning to MEL in May.

MEL-ADL for another of our winery road trips in May
MEL-PER-MEL in June - admittedly one of these tickets was gratis from AMEX.

I don't think all the changes will be that visible when we fly, given they're primarily SYD-centered. But I think we get the new Luke Mangan menus. And the FAs will be in their spunky new uniforms. Still, it'd be nice to perceive some of the changes cf years ago in their cheapo LCC days.

We will also be flying MH J to MLE early next year so will probably credit those flights to Velocity. I'll have to decide if I want to gun for Velocity Gold (or try for a status match)... it'll probably aid my decision to try VA across the Pacific.

Europe is still a black hole despite the EY partnership though. I prefer to fly an Australian carrier on principle (within oneworld I'd only fly QF if i can help it), but to even get on VA metal some of the way I'd have to go via SYD. Then again, traveling to Europe outside of LHR, I suppose there's no great disadvantage to going via SYD with VA/EY than the extra stop in LHR with QF/BA.

 

[scibo10]

I think the veto right by SQ on the use of the Virgin name overseas expires in 2015. I remember reading that somewhere. It would make sense at this time to rebrand V Australia to Virgin Australia. Wonder how many V Oz planes they would need to rebrand by that time?

 

[scibo10]

PS. Oh, and they could be about to announce - or playing a high stakes poker game over - a killer deal with Singapore to be their Asian partner and all this could be an elaborate ruse and it may be one brand after all.

I have to admit this has also crossed my mind. With words such as "could do" and "probably" rather than JB definitively saying it will be multiple brands (and therefore still not really giving anything away), and the fact that a win-win deal could easily be achieved between VA and SQ. But hey, I'm speculating just like the next guy...

 

[777]

I have to admit this has also crossed my mind. With words such as "could do" and "probably" rather than JB definitively saying it will be multiple brands (and therefore still not really giving anything away), and the fact that a win-win deal could easily be achieved between VA and SQ. But hey, I'm speculating just like the next guy...

Assuming there were negotiations going on with SQ -- and there must be over the name if nothing else -- from a pure tactical point of view the best thing that JB can say publicly is "we don't mind there being two brands" because saying anything but puts them over a barrel with SQ and gives them no room to move.

So JBs public statements either mean:
1. We really are planning for two brands because negotiations with SQ, SRB and others fell through over one brand.

OR

2. We are still negotiating over one brand with SQ and others but in order to protect our negotiating position we are going to publicly pretend it's not a big deal. This could apply either if they were 99% sure they had stitched up a deal and not signed off on it yet or if they think it's not a chance in hell.

It probably doesn't mean they've done a deal with SQ unless they are actively trying to throw us off the scent or the deal was done particularly recently and they are simply stalling for an announcement.

I don't think there's a lot of reason to assume that they are saying one thing and planning another. While there's a lot of frustration in all this from people wanting DJ to say a lot earlier than they want to - i do note that they haven't actively been spreading misinformation at any stage or letting rumours get too out of control that aren't true. They've been pretty up front with their plans and intentions and held off on the details.

777.

 

[scibo10]

Assuming there were negotiations going on with SQ -- and there must be over the name if nothing else -- from a pure tactical point of view the best thing that JB can say publicly is "we don't mind there being two brands" because saying anything but puts them over a barrel with SQ and gives them no room to move.

I don't think there's a lot of reason to assume that they are saying one thing and planning another. While there's a lot of frustration in all this from people wanting DJ to say a lot earlier than they want to - i do note that they haven't actively been spreading misinformation at any stage or letting rumours get too out of control that aren't true. They've been pretty up front with their plans and intentions and held off on the details.

777.

You make some good points 777.

It would be foolish for them to say anything but 2 brands are workable. Is the veto right for SQ part of the contract between VS and SQ, therefore meaning that at expiry, VA are free to use the Virgin name. I know this has been discussed in a previous thread, but I forgot what the answer was...

 

[777]

It suddenly occurs to me that multi brands could also mean "Virgin Australia" for all current DJ/VA and Pacific Blue ops and Virgin Polynesia/ Polynesian Blue/ whatever for the Poly ops.

Perhaps the blockage isn't with the folks in S'pore but with the Polynesian govt who expect (probably quite understandably) that their national carrier includes some local identity in the name?

Just a thought.

 

[soorox]

It suddenly occurs to me that multi brands could also mean "Virgin Australia" for all current DJ/VA and Pacific Blue ops and Virgin Polynesia/ Polynesian Blue/ whatever for the Poly ops.

Perhaps the blockage isn't with the folks in S'pore but with the Polynesian govt who expect (probably quite understandably) that their national carrier includes some local identity in the name?

Just a thought.

I think the most likely outcome at the end will be 2 Virgin airlines, Virgin Australia & Virgin Samoa/Polynesia.

But I think by having 'Virgin' in the new name would help brand awarness for "Virgin Polynesia/Samoa" and people may have more interest in Samoa for having an investment by a globally reknown airline? But the thing is that most Polynesian Blue flights are operated by Pacific Blue aircraft and it would cause some confusion.

SQ is looking at selling it's 49% in VS anyways so the Virgin name wouldn't be too much of an issue. SQ would most likely not gain rights to SYD/MEL-LAX also.