Virgin Australia and Qatar Announce Strategic Partnership

[Jack_OC]

SYD-DOH-LHR return in classic Y - 86
SYD-MEL return in classic Y (flying QF) - 10

For 48 weeks = 566
Enough to retain, but not attain QR Platinum.


If on QF:
SYD-DXB-LHR return in Y - 190 (QF marketed EK flights for the closest comparison - but same via SIN or direct)
SYX-MEL return in Y - 20

For 48 weeks = 1150 (+50 loyalty bonus)
Enough to retain, but not attain QF Platinum.

But pretty easy on both counts to build up the status by connections instead of flying direct.

It's a bit of a moot point though - as QR doesn't give qpoints for non-oneworld flights as far as I can see (not even LATAM who only recently exited) so unlikely they'll give to VA unless booked as QR flights on an international connection.

I'm not sure what point you are making? The SCs/QPoints required for status are indeed similar between QF and QR - but @levelnine was suggesting switching to QR could make elite status attainable for someone who does not fly enough to get elite status as things stand. The reality is that Velocity status is much easier to get than status with either QR or QF, so I doubt if a semi-regular flyer would have any reason to consider moving away from Velocity.

In any case, I agree that there is almost no chance that VA marketed flights will contribute to QR status, so it is indeed a moot point.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm not sure what point you are making? The SCs/QPoints required for status are indeed similar between QF and QR - but @levelnine was suggesting switching to QR could make elite status attainable for someone who does not fly enough to get elite status as things stand. The reality is that Velocity status is much easier to get than status with either QR or QF, so I doubt if a semi-regular flyer would have any reason to consider moving away from Velocity.

In any case, I agree that there is almost no chance that VA marketed flights will contribute to QR status, so it is indeed a moot point.

I was just editing while you were writing this - I forgot to put in the VA comparison.

I think my general point is that status is pretty hard on all airlines (including VA) if you're only casually flying domestically (the average Coles & Woolies shopper) so probably more looking to redeem on a SYD-OOL flight for the family than a QR J trip to LHR.

Status is a lot easier, and cheaper, to achieve with international travel. Flying discount Y short haul domestic is the hardest way to do it.

 

[odysseus]

Which is what I said originally, good for Velocity, not good for VA the airline.

I don't think it's going to detract much from QF at all, but I guess we will see. Preferences for shopping at Woolworths vs Coles probably has more sway on these kinds of people.

If it's good for Velocity, it will extend to VA customers. Most Velocity members are in Australia. If they're trying to get points for the Euro/other trip because Velocity has many options, they'll prioritise their spend on domestic flights and be less likely to fly Qantas.

If you're talking about people who don't fly at all, that doesn't affect either airline. It's also unlikely there'll be a big upswell in those people joining QR just because of this. So I don't see it as negative to the airline as you seem to.

 

[justinbrett]

So I don't see it as negative to the airline as you seem to.

I never said it was negative. I just don't think it's a significant gain to the airline. I think QR is getting much more out of the deal.

I think we can summarise the high frequency international travellers are probably better with QR, the low frequency domestic travellers as you say are not a factor - which probably leaves the medium-high frequency domestic travellers. Who are already flying VA.

Are people with any significant travel spend going to switch from QF to VA on account of the QR deal? No.

It's pretty similar to the QF/EK deal really (post QF moving back to SIN). It doesn't really help QF at all. It's kind of nice for QF members to be able to travel by a ME airline, but QF itself isn't getting much out of it.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It's been obvious for a decade now that FFPs are a true driver of profitability for airlines so anything that increases the appeal of Velocity will be a good thing for Virgin going forward.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Because a number of commentators are saying the QR deal is a decision made by Bain. I'd say it was made by the appointed, legal management team. Just a case of getting details correct.

Well, there are Bain salaried employees working in the VA2 building at all times on top of the appointed executive positions.
I'm not sure how that is relevant to the QR deal though..

Bain will be driving this. Some thing like this would *not* unless Bain like it. They are not hands off silent passive investors. Same with UA-VA

Look the VA CEO history. QF was just a side line gig

https://au.linkedin.com/in/jaynedrdlicka?original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Senior Advisor
Bain Capital

Jun 2020 - Nov 2020 6 months
Greater Melbourne Area
Advising the acquisition of Virgin Australia and assisting in the due diligence.

Senior Partner
Bain & Company

1997 - 2010 13 years

Senior Consultant
Bain & Company

Jul 1987 - Oct 1991 4 years 4 months
Boston

 

[dajop]

It's been obvious for a decade now that FFPs are a true driver of profitability for airlines ...

Someone didn't send that memo to PAG/Rex though.

 

[levelnine]

Each to their own, but IMHO, the benefit of being able to request release of award seats with QF is far more valuable. QF have a lot more flights out of Australia, and obviously to a lot more destinations too. If indeed Velocity members get the same access to QR award seats as QR members, and/or this new partnership entices a lot of Aussies to migrate to QR, then due to increased competition, it may become a lot more difficult for anyone to get access to award seats on QR out of Australia. FWIW, QF P1 don't have to deal with the Qantas call centre

You're confusing a lot of points here. If you're flying enough to attain P1, the savvy flyer's comparator is not QR, but BA with its achievable lifetime gold. Not really relevant to this conversation.

I was talking about top tier OWE. Here the differences are far more marginal between QF and QR. Release of seats is very hit and miss as a WP — a benefit that sometimes works if you're very lucky and if you can get a competent agent on the phone who knows how it works. And QR are always going to release more seats to its own members, VA partnership or not.

I realise that your initial point was that it would be great if you could get elite status covering both VA and QF at the same time (and I agree with that), but can you clarify how you think a "semi regular flyer" is going to earn elite status with QR? How do you define semi-regular - one domestic trip a month? I don't think that would even get you to Gold with QR, even if combined with an annual trip to EU (in Y).

In fact, by my calculations, 1 EU trip per year + MEL-SYD rtn in every working week of the year wouldn't quite get you to QR Platinum.

Getting Velocity status is actually pretty easy though, especially if you can exploit family pooling. You could almost certainly get to Velocity Platinum with less flying than you would need to get QR Gold.

You haven't quite grasped the point. If you are a semi-regular flyer that flies enough to get, say, Silver/Gold on QF and Silver/Gold on VA, there is the possibility that you could pool your status credits on QF and VA into QR to achieve a higher tier that is recognised by both airlines than you would get in either QF or VA individually. Eg you have to do a lot of flying to get Platinum on both QF and VA. This alliance could potentially halve that requirement for a smart traveller.

 

[Mwenenzi]

You haven't quite grasped the point. If you are a semi-regular flyer that flies enough to get, say, Silver/Gold on QF and Silver/Gold on VA, there is the possibility that you could pool your status credits on QF and VA into QR to achieve a higher tier that is recognised by both airlines than you would get in either QF or VA individually. Eg you have to do a lot of flying to get Platinum on both QF and VA. This alliance could potentially halve that requirement for a smart traveller.

But earning status on QR does not have the exact same requirements as QF/VA. Or BA. Need to crunch the numbers for fights/distance/SC earning to the status SC needed for OWR-OWS-OWE.
And then cost of awards vs earning. (earn to burn taking into account cash copayments)
Non flying activities is big ff mile earner many (in)frequent flyers (but big spenders)
QR is not well regarded as a ffp

 

[justinbrett]

You haven't quite grasped the point. If you are a semi-regular flyer that flies enough to get, say, Silver/Gold on QF and Silver/Gold on VA, there is the possibility that you could pool your status credits on QF and VA into QR to achieve a higher tier that is recognised by both airlines than you would get in either QF or VA individually. Eg you have to do a lot of flying to get Platinum on both QF and VA. This alliance could potentially halve that requirement for a smart traveller.

This also assumes the traveller only travels to Europe / ME, as if they're flying to NE Asia or the US then they're in a worse position than QF.

I think upgrades is an important point - whilst alliance wide upgrades are coming (they say), it's going to be more restrictive than the individual programs - and no word on how airlines will prioritise upgrades (one can assume the carriers will look after their own first). Upgrades are one of the main benefits of being a QF FF, especially if you have status to put you at the top of the list.

It's really simple - join the program of the airline you fly most. If you're mostly flying to Europe, either BA or QR. If you're mostly flying to USA, either AA or QF (or maybe AS if you do a lot of domestic flights).

But if you do a mix, including travel to Japan, then QF makes the most sense.

VA really needs to join Star Alliance IMO.

 

[Melburnian1]

These media announcements would be far more valuable if they included a table of how many points are required for each destination, or category of miles/km (such as 1-4000).

Until then, one ought reserve judgment.

 

[adelaidefc]

Like most have said, a good special on Cold Power in Coles will probably be more attractive than this hook up to the masses . It will appeal to a fringe few but its all about incremental steps to making Velocity a more viable alternative and this is another step in the right direction (in my opinion)

I agree! Flybuys can be a surprisingly good incidental VA points earner, especially with bonuses sometimes netting a extra 2-3k VA points on a single shop.

I switched all my earn to VA and credit cards that allowed crediting to VA (among others) a few years ago. Had to hold out through the tough years but very impressed with how things have gone in the last 12 months. Given that QSuites are my international flight holy grail, this just icing on the cake.

 

[cbourl]

Fanstastic, funtastic, and the icing on top of this glorious torte is the slap in the face for Qantas aka Kwantas Just like the old days, when Qatar was a United partner before they joined the ailing WunWorld alliance Here is to onward and upward, and this default Star Alliance recognition earning for bothQatar and VA is simply delicious

These media announcements would be far more valuable if they included a table of how many points are required for each destination, or category of miles/km (such as 1-4000).

Until then, one ought reserve judgment.

Im probably assuming much less tha nQantas would require. Wheever I book a business award on Qantas its wit hAmerica nAirlines points for les points and much less tax copay. And for Cathay First and Qatar First awards pre COVID ALWAYS through American Airlines for half the miles and a token $US100 copay. No nasty Qantas or Bloody Awful copays As for bling bling trashfabulous Emirates, who fly them except cashed upMa Pa Kettle Aussies with the english expats from their doom colony aka Dubai which is now an oil-less emirate

 

[Mr H]

I was briefly excited that I might be able to use Velocity points to book next year's outing to the Horn of Africa. But looking at the redemption rates for existing partners, they are terrible. Better value to transfer to SQ at 1.55 (if that ever returns) than to use Velocity points.

 

[HSB44]

These media announcements would be far more valuable if they included a table of how many points are required for each destination, or category of miles/km (such as 1-4000).

Until then, one ought reserve judgment.

Exactly... Have they published the details yet?

 

[HSB44]

and this default Star Alliance recognition earning for bothQatar and VA is simply delicious

Can you please explain what you mean by that?

 

[antycbr]

Exactly... Have they published the details yet?

This way you get two announceables. Marketing love announcing the same thing over and over.

 

[Www]

Interesting the e-mail specifically also references Etihad.

I'm wondering if QR will replace EY?

The original EY partnership was inked in 2010 for 10 years, until 30 Dec 2020 with a mid point review. In 2015 it was approved to continue through to the end.

Was there some kind of new agreement, or COVID related amnesty on extending preexisting agreements from the ACCC/Government?

Interesting… I had better get into spending my stash of Etihad Guest miles as they are purely for use on Virgin Australia flights.

 

[HS-TQE]

Interesting… I had better get into spending my stash of Etihad Guest miles as they are purely for use on Virgin Australia flights.

EY will remain a Velocity partner.

However EY will be a 'secondary' partner as QR takes over as the primary ME/European partner towards the end of 2022.

 

[RooFlyer]

Interesting comments from Qatar Airlines CEO Akbar Al Baker at an Air Transport Conference, especially given the past relations between QR and QF! The Oz on-line

Famously outspoken Qatar Airways chief executive Akbar Al Baker has revealed that Virgin Australia was not his first choice when it came to finding an airline partner down under.

Sitting alongside Virgin CEO Jayne Hrdlicka on a panel at the International Air Transport Association summit in Doha, Mr Al Baker was asked what it was about Virgin that he liked the look of when he decided to partner with them.

“Quite frankly I don’t know if Alan (Joyce) is here but we tried to do work with (Qantas) for a very long time and we realised that it’s not going to happen because they have partnered with somebody (Emirates),” said Mr Al Baker.

And on delays at airports (not DOH )

“Passengers need people to serve them and this is where the problem is at the airports.”

Mr Al Baker stressed that there were no such issues at Hamad International Airport in Doha but said others like Heathrow in London and Schiphol in Amsterdam were not so fortunate.

“It’s also because during the pandemic their equipment was not properly looked after and serviced,” he said.

“We get delays of 1.5 to two hours (at these airports) and 50 per cent of the time the baggage system is broken down.”